D17 ALTERNATOR CONVERSION
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=144860
Printed Date: 05 Nov 2025 at 1:18am
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Topic: D17 ALTERNATOR CONVERSION
Posted By: jeickman01
Subject: D17 ALTERNATOR CONVERSION
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2017 at 8:11pm
| Need to redo a cobbled-up alternator conversion on a D17 Series 3 gas. I have the Delco SI brackets from a 170but am not sure if the SI will clear the power steering pump on the D17. Does anyone have pictures of this? |
Replies:
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2017 at 7:27am
| You'll have to notch the upper bracket to clear the PS pump bracket and leave the cooling fan off of the alternator to clear the PS belt. Been there...dun that dozens of times. |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2017 at 7:32am
|
I could not get a 10si to fit on my D17 with PS pump on the left. The bracket had broken on the PS pump support and the PO had it welded up a bit lower. I used a mini alternator from DB electrical. Fit right on and works great. ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2017 at 7:35am
|
Seems the next alternator beyond the 10SI is smaller and if you have access to that it's suppose to fit better . ------------- Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel. |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2017 at 7:37am
|
My setup Alternator was around $60  ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: SteveMaskey(MO)
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2017 at 8:12am
| Charlie 175, do you remember brand and model number of your mini alternator? Your setup is very neat. |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2017 at 8:24am
|
I wanted a 1 wire setup and this bolted right on to the stock mount. Used the existing wiring with a bypass at the regulator. https://www.dbelectrical.com/products/chevy-mini-alternator-denso-street-rod-race-1-wire-12180.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.dbelectrical.com/products/chevy-mini-alternator-denso-street-rod-race-1-wire-12180.html ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2017 at 8:27am
|
35 amp is the max output, however that is at 6000 RPM At tractor RPM speeds, the output is much lower, however it is more than OK to charge the battery and run the lights. Starts charging at low RPM's also. ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2017 at 8:28am
| How in Sam Hill does that work with ONE belt ?? I doubt it would ever allow the Power steering pump to build 1600 psi (if needed) without slipping the belt. |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2017 at 8:29am
|
Also keep in mind this is a negative ground system so you do have to switch some wires around. ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2017 at 8:34am
Works fine, I haven't noticed any issues. I can 2 finger steer. The generator was hooked up 1 belt like this also. The pulley has a piece broken off on the inside pulley flange, so I guess this caused belt wear which was why the PO only used 1 belt. I can see the double belt as being more efficient. ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
DrAllis wrote:Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2017 at 11:49am
20 AMPS is more than enough to charge a normal battery. Every battery spec I've seen suggested a charge rate of no more than 20 percent of the reserve capacity of the battery. A battery with a RC of 100 is a pretty good-sized battery. Of course if you are using an implement with an electrical connection you'd want the larger alternator. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2017 at 12:11pm
| The standard Delco alternator on a One-Seventy was 32 amps. All it has to run was 4 headlites and one tail lite and keep the battery charged up enough to operate the ignition. 55 amps was the norm on a 200 with factory cab because there was a blower fan and windshield wiper to operate. |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2017 at 6:22pm
|
Generally the alternator is driven a lot faster than than the engine crankshaft by having a large pulley on the crankshaft and a small pulley on the alternator. A generator pulley will fit an alternator most of the time but is larger so it doesn't turn the alternator as fast as can be accomplished with the smallest available alternator pulley. The internal construction of an alternator withstands very high shaft speeds a lot better than a generator. It takes more alternator current capability than the lighting, accessories, and ignition load. Because the battery needs serious charging after cranking. Starters draw a few hundred amps, as much as 400 amps for ten to 20 seconds, and a 20 amp charging current has to stay for 20 times as long as it took to crank, longer because the battery efficiency is not perfect. A 10 amp charging current takes 40 times as along as the cranking time. Gerald J. |
Posted By: dt1050
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2017 at 11:30am
|
glad this post is here, I"m buying a d17 and will probly have to convert it over at some point. ------------- Just cause it's orange don't make it a tractor, there's only one..Allis Chalmers |
Posted By: jeickman01
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2017 at 6:46pm
| I just took delivery of the DB alternator only to find that it's a plain-box-Made-In-China product. However, the "fit and finish" appear to be good quality. And even if I could find an American made version, it would probably have Chinese made bearings. Was going to post something one time questioning whether the UAW was the downfall of Allis as well as International but then began to wonder if even though they were part of the problem they weren't all of it. Deere survived the ag economic downturn that contributed to Allis' failure and they were also saddled with high UAW wages. Sure miss the good old days of US industrial smokestack production. A lot of thought goes into buying an alternator for an old D17. |
Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2017 at 9:27am
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Is that a CW or a CCW turning alternator? I forget which way they have to go. CW = Clock Wise CCW = Counter Clock Wise ------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
Posted By: jeickman01
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2017 at 7:38am
| Ted There was an output test sheet included with the alternator but it doesn't state direction of rotation nor are there any markings on the alternator itself. Never thought about it before but I wonder if an alternator can run in either direction. |
Posted By: TramwayGuy
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2017 at 8:16am
| Alternators do not care which direction they turn. They generate AC which is converted to the desired polarity DC by diodes internally. |
Posted By: theropod
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2017 at 8:27am
Alternators don’t care which direction they turn aside from the cooling fan, and most models have a replacement fan with a reversing cooling function. The rotor, the turning part, is enegized via brushes on slip rings that do not change polarity with direction of spin. These rotor coils produce a magnetic field from this feed that cuts across the windings of the stator, or stationary coils. This induces a flow of electricity first in one direction as one rotor field passes the stator coil, and then in the opposite direction as the other rotor field, with opposite magnetic polarity, passes. This is why they are called alternators. An array of (typically) 6 diodes turn that alternating current into direct current for the battery. Most alternators have a 3 phase stator where there aren’t “flat” spots in the flow of alternating current. These stator coils are arranged so that the rotor exposes the magnetic field to more than one stator coil at a time, and the combined direct current is of a more smooth nature, with reduced rippling. ------------- Put the bunny back in the box! 1938 B, 1977 Yanmar YM2200 No private messages: use email: theropod AT yahoo DOT com |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2017 at 10:46am
|
Good post! I also want to convert my D17 with power steering over to a alternator at some point in the future. I like the small (Denso(sp)) type alternators too. I used one on a TD6 when the old generator wasnt working. Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2017 at 7:30pm
|
Thanks TramwayGuy and theropod for the answer! I've seen some pretty good sales of odd ball alternators on ePay and now I can pick up one of them and it won't matter. Hated to shell out $$$ for one and worried that it wouldn't spin the correct way. Now I don't have to worry! THANKS ------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
Posted By: theropod
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2017 at 9:49pm
You still need to consider making sure the pulley/fan is correct for the desired rotation direction of the alternator. Whether the alternator has air pulled through it, or pushed into it, depends on that fan. The rectifying diodes generate heat, as do the coils in both the stator and rotor windings. That heat must be dissipated in some way, and it makes a difference in the life of the alternator if it is done correctly or not. Most alternators mount the diode array in the back of the alternator, so pulling cool air across them first makes sense. If I am not mistaken most alternators draw air from the back and push it out the front. A simple smoke test with a stick of incensed would confirm this on your pickup, or car. Not pushed to its limits this might not even be an issue, but just a few minutes of running too hot can kill those rectifying diodes, or burn a coil. ------------- Put the bunny back in the box! 1938 B, 1977 Yanmar YM2200 No private messages: use email: theropod AT yahoo DOT com |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2017 at 10:44pm
| If you have a problem with the alternator cooling fan rubbing the PS pump belt, leave it off. There is enough fan blast from the radiator fan to keep the alt cool. I've done this DOZENS of times with Delco alts and never had a problem. |
Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2017 at 7:44am
I have about a half dozen of those alternators on various tractors have not had any problems with any of them,all are the 1 wire type and have found all the one wire hysteria to be false. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2017 at 9:20am
One wire hysteria? I don't follow what that means, but there's nothing wrong with one wire Alternators, they just need to be installed on the right applications. The early 30's & 40's Tractors that were equipped with the 6V PG systems had engines in them that worked at lower rpms. In the earlier days of the one wire Alts, most one wires needed 1200-1400 rpm in order to excite the regulators to start the charging process. The only problem there was you had to rev the engine up into that rpm range to start the charging process. The earlier older engines weren't designed to work up high in rpms, so it was a little tough on the engine revving it to get things charging. You had a choice. Either do a pulley change to spin the Alt faster, or just use the Alt as a three wire which after about 450 rpm, the Alt is charging and no revving was needed on the older engine. The more modern one wires excite at lower rpms to start the charging process sooner. (much easier on the older engines) Moving into the late 40's early 50's, engine design changed dramatically, and working in a much higher rpm range was no longer an issue, so the older one wires fit the bill fine if that's what you want. (like these D17's on up) Its just like an Automobile. When I build one of my 12V conversion systems, I always wire the Alts as three wire using one of the wires as a voltage sensing circuit. Doesn't matter what model Tractor it is. This will actually monitor the system better, and when things are turned on and the load is increased, the VR makes the adjustment and the Alt ramps up a little more to compensate. Pretty simple. There's only two more wires to connect. Not a big deal. On say like a "D" series Tractor, I'll run the voltage sense circuit up with the output circuit and junction both at the dash area being this is the busy area where current is being used and distributed throughout the Tractor. As I mentioned, as loads are increased turning accessories on, the VR gets the signals and the Alternator does its job to keep up with the loads and also to keep the Battery happy. Its even more important wiring the system that way if the Tractor is equipped with a cab were wipers, heater, extra lights etc are not uncommon.... HTH  Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2017 at 11:45am
Only one problem with your example on RPM almost any tractor crankshaft pulley will be 2X or more the diameter of the Delco alternator pulleys which means an alternator that needs 1400 RPM to get it to start charging only needs for the tractor to run 700 RPM hardly any tractors are operated for any amount of time under 700 RPM.And I have put a meter on every one of my 1 wire alternator equiped tractors and can say for sure all start charging as soon as they fire up and start running. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2017 at 1:50pm
|
You are correct as I stated in my post. "The more modern one wires excite at lower rpms to start the charging process sooner". (much easier on the older engines) I was making a comparison between the old and new Alts. BUT, when you run a voltage sensing circuit on larger Tractors with more accessories, it allows the Alt to compensate for loads better where a one wire Alternator is charging just the Battery. When a load is put on the system, and a one wire is up front, the load is put on the Battery which can take the Battery out eventually before its time. Also, the more you turn on, and go beyond that one wires rating, you're really putting a strain on the system and the Battery. Big difference. The more loads, the tougher it is on the Battery as well as the system. If you have a one wire Alt on a Tractor equipped with a Magneto and just lights, there isn't any load on the system till the lights are turned on. With just lights, the Battery would have plenty of reserve to feed the Headlights. Its the only load on the system so it would be childs play for the Alt. The Battery should stay in service for a long time unless it sulfates and kills a cell or two from the Tractor sitting a lot. With early Tractors, like I described above, I don't remotely junction the voltage sensing circuit back at the dash, I just swing the voltage sensing circuit to the output terminal at the back of the Alt because early Tractors won't use any current because there's no accessories to draw on the system. Even if they're equipped with a Battery Ignition, there's plenty there to feed what's needed. Now, if there is an electric winch or something like that installed at the rear of the Tractor, then I would design the system to handle what that winch would need. I've designed quite a few of those systems to. Its comes down to whatever works for you... Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |