New Gleaner Side Panels Material, and Speech Ideas
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Topic: New Gleaner Side Panels Material, and Speech Ideas
Posted By: CrestonM
Subject: New Gleaner Side Panels Material, and Speech Ideas
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2017 at 6:37pm
| Anyone know what the side panels on the new Gleaner S8/9 series combines are made of? Someone told me Deere's were made of some sort of plastic, and I was just wondering what Gleaner used. Thanks! |
Replies:
Posted By: ryan(IN)
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2017 at 6:39pm
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Still metal. Only combine in the market with metal side panels and still lighter than everyone else. ------------- ryan 1984 8070 FWA,1979 7060,1975 7040,1971 190,1960 D-17D,1957 D-14, 196? D-19G, 1975 5040,1971? 160,1994 R62 |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2017 at 6:47pm
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Awesome! Thanks!
Also...I'm giving a presentation in my speech class this week about Gleaner vs Deere. (With my professor, this may be suicide, but I'd rather die a martyr than drinkn the kool-aid, Lol) I'm trying to include as many facts off the Deere and Gleaner websites as I can, but Deere seems to be somewhat lacking in comparative numbers. Go figure. Anybody have any advice on any points I should make sure to cover? Some things I've thought about are: Smart Cooling engine fan vs "air scoop" on the Deere Accelerator rolls and gravity-independent cleaning Lighter weight/less compaction (I'm sure that will be met with criticism. Usually people compensate by saying Gleaner skimps on material where it counts) Natural Flow feeding Only 2 augers in the unloading system, for less grain shifting/damage. Any others? Thanks! I'm also going to make sure I show this....I call it the John Deere version of Hansel and Gretel.  |
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2017 at 7:39pm
| I love all your ideas Creston. I really think that Smart Cooling has got to be the greatest idea ever when running a liquid cooled combine!! I wonder how long till John Deere tries to copy it? LOL!! Ryan |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2017 at 7:49pm
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Well...they've got a system now (at least on the articulated 4wd tractors) that uses a variable speed fan. Blades don't change pitch, but the 2 pulleys (drive and driven) work much like the variable speed on the old combines. This system works, but it's a huge PITA to change a belt! If you don't bleed the hydraulic system at the back of the cab, underneath, in a hard to reach spot, you can't get the old belt off or a new one on. Then if you don't put everything back together just right and bleed the system, it will shred the belt. There are also some grease zerks on the sheaves the dealers usually don't tell you about... Don't ask how I know. As far as combines though, I know the Gleaner cleans its own radiator and engine compartment every 10 minutes...as far as I know the latest Deere innovation was to offer an optional on-board air compressor for manual cleaning. Wow. In the 1970s, that would've been great. Today? I think not.
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Posted By: wayneIA
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2017 at 8:33pm
| One issue that a friend has with an axial-rotor IH combine (and could be an issue with an axial Deere depending on how the concaves are setup and how much you push them) is that his IH will shell most of the corn on the right side of the rotor and send the majority of the grain down the right side of the machine to be cleaned. When you start pushing capacity, if you open the chaffer and sieve up to take the large volume of grain on the right then you take in the trash from the left side. If you close the chaffer and sieve, then you get a clean sample and dump grain over the rear on the right side. Another friend I have does run a Deere 9560 STS rotor and doesn't have this issue, but he also doesn't push the combine to capacity. The friend with the IH is running a 7010 IH and if he goes much over 2500 bushels per hour is when his yield loss goes up. One major point to make on the Gleaner vs Deere debate is the service-ability of the rotor. The Gleaner you open the side panel, remove the "stop sign", and pull the rotor. If you know what you are doing, you can have the rotor pulled in a half hour or less. For servicing a Deere rotor, first you remove the engine since the rotor must be removed out the rear of the combine since the rotor is stepped and has no physical way to be removed out the front like an IH is. The same friend with the IH combine seen a family farm talking about their Gleaner and that they had swallowed a rock and damaged the rotor. He couldn't believe that in 4 hours they had: pulled the rotor, made necessary repairs, and reassembled and were back to harvesting that afternoon. That friend wants to buy a Gleaner (looking at an S78), but is having trouble justifying spending the money for a combine upgrade right now, but I think his next combine will be a Gleaner when he does trade. Also to keep in mind on the service end of things is how many fewer moving parts the Gleaner has in comparison to the Deere. There are several more pulleys and drives to keep repaired on a Deere that also increases failure points to start fires. Another service item is the grain unload through the turret auger on the Deere. Not only do you have two augers in the floor of the grain tank, but pushing the grain up the vertical section of auger to the turret eats horsepower and the auger isn't going to last as long. The machine size is another consideration when looking at a Gleaner. The machine is shorter in height (door head clearance), and also shorter in length (machine shed floor space, and room required when opening fields to avoid running crop over to turn). Then with the weight, having the lower grain tank floor lowers the center of gravity making the machine more stable even on flat ground. I don't know if any of this will help on your presentation, but hopefully something will. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2017 at 8:50pm
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Thanks, that helps quite a bit! Like you said about the case dumping grain on the right side, I think that’s what happened with the John Deere combines that harvested the field in the photo I posted. Shoe overloading dumped a bunch out on the ground in every right track. |
Posted By: ryan(IN)
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2017 at 8:50pm
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Gleaners also have a fully welded main frame for strength. The new ones have a fully pneumatic shoe because of the perforated cascade pan. ------------- ryan 1984 8070 FWA,1979 7060,1975 7040,1971 190,1960 D-17D,1957 D-14, 196? D-19G, 1975 5040,1971? 160,1994 R62 |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2017 at 11:25pm
| Also, if anyone has a pretty good photo of a N-series machine in the field, I am looking for one to use in my presentation. Thanks! |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 1:49am
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You might also mention price of the two machines, I suspect the Gleaner is a bit cheaper, also because of the more simple design and weight, the Gleaner should use less fuel, "More bushels per gallon". As a side note, in the latest Old Allis News, there is an article about the Gleaners and how they are the most profitable brand AGCO sells and that they are not considering dropping the Gleaner line. I can only hope that is true. ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: AC7060IL
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 3:18am
| Interesting post. And, good luck with the speech. All the above is true & worthy of praise. I run gleaners. Where you are going to come under considerable opposition is - AGCO's lack of dealer support. The remaining AGCO dealers are fantastic, but many have closed. So now a farmer usually has to drive 70+ miles for parts. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 4:55am
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Creston, Is this a technical writing/speech class? If so remember your audience is composed (likely) of 100% non farmers... And a non- farmer is likely judging your grade... Not trying to criticize, but keep that firmly in mind...
 |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 7:26am
I’ve kept that in mind. The class is called “Agricultural communications” but even then, not everyone is from a farm. However, the Prof lets us “choose” who our audience is. In other words, if I want the audience to be “a group of farmers in the market for a new combine” instead of just college students, that’s how they pretend to be. It’s kinda nice I guess, because then I don’t have to dumb everything down. |
DiyDave wrote:Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 7:28am
Yep, so far that’s my only weak link...there used to be a dealer right here in this town, until about October of last year. Hopefully no one brings that up during the Q&A time, because I get the feeling the John Deere guys (actually from farms) in the class are going to try to tear me down. Lol |
Posted By: Unit3
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 8:30am
    
------------- 2-8070FWA PS/8050PS/7080/7045PS/200/D15-II/2-WD45/WD/3-WC/UC/C |
Posted By: Unit3
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 9:26am
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We had to disable the Smart Cool on the S78. Had the smallest of fire due to it. The fan still reverses, but now it is full forward or full reverse. To save power, the Smart Cool would adjust the fan pitch only as needed. This would allow dust and chaff to build up on the manifold and it doesn't take much to make a mess of your day. With the left and right shields up and the unloading auger out, open the cover door on the auger to grease the U joint. Once the zert is in view, I painted a line straight down on the drive sprocket around on the right side. You can turn the entire unloading auger with your hand. It makes servicing easy. I don't think you could do that with any other brand. The Oliver dealer in the town said they used to make fun on 2 cylinder tractors as they drove past. 2 sounded rough and the 6 cylinder in the 77's and 88's sounded so smooth. Get around the 7 cylinder engines in the S78, S88, S97, and the S98. 6 and 8 cylinder engines don't sound so smooth any more. The power of them is unexplainable. They create a smooth, steady, and angry roar. The East West rotor in the Gleaner combine is the best kept secret farming. The green and red guys, even Agco doesn't fully know just how great a combine they have in a Gleaner cross rotor. I do wish they would put a twist grip motorcycle throttle on the hydro handle. That would be cool. Add three more cylinder bars and bring back a rock door. ------------- 2-8070FWA PS/8050PS/7080/7045PS/200/D15-II/2-WD45/WD/3-WC/UC/C |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 8:23pm
OK, its a little better than I thought, then. I had an English technical writing course, way back when, the prof had an in class assignment, it was to pull an object, from your pocket, or person, write a detailed description of it, read said description, to the class, then a person at random from the class got to draw a picture of the object, that I had described. Only thing I had was a pocket knife style folding spark plug gapping gauge... The idjit chosen to draw the picture of it was a black girl from brawltimore, who prolly couldn't add 2+2 twice, and come up with the same result... That picture weren't pretty...
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Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 8:46pm
That’s funny... just this morning my philosophy professor was giving a demonstration and asked the class what it is we humans exhale ... there was a black girl behind me that said “oxygen!” Lol I guess that’s kinda true, but total exhaled gas is only about 10% oxygen I think. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 10:49pm
Thanks Unit3! I appreciate those. I really like the last one, and I will use it in my presentation.
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Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 11:09pm
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Does anybody have an estimate as to what the price difference is in a Gleaner and Deere? I haven't priced a combine since the S8 series came out. Thanks
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Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 5:48am
| suprised nobody mentioned the shear simplicity (less drives, belts, gear boxes,etc) of the gleaner vs the deere. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 6:38am
That is one of my sub points when I’ll talk about their light weight. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 12:23pm
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Side note...I just did some scoping out with my local Deere dealer about what I would need to do to "Pull the rotor from my S670" and how long it would take. When I asked that he just groaned and said it's a very long process.... He said it pulls out the front, but you have to remove the concaves, remove all the separator tines, the accelerator beater in the front, the feeder house, some shields, and then they have a special tool on a fork lift that slides up in the machine, and pulls the rotor out. He said the piece that is attached to the front bearing stays attached to the rotor and pulls out together.
I asked how long it would take, and he said it would take him, the lead combine technician,...in a fully equipped shop....2 days if they worked all day, both days.... WOW!!! Now 30 minutes to pull a Gleaner rotor is REALLY looking good! I'll make sure to point that all out in my speech. |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 12:39pm
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And the new red ones are like a refinery with all the piping and hoses on them. YIKES ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 2:14pm
| With the Dr.'s instructions Dad and I can now pull our r50 rotor out at home in under an hour......... |
Posted By: ILGLEANER
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 2:43pm
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Those smart cool fans are nice until you have to replace one. $4500.00. I dont know how far you are going back in comparing. But all the combines today have the electric over hydraulic to perform the functions in the cab. That Gleaner came out with in 1972. Deere finally caught up in 1989. ------------- Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated. |
Posted By: Stan R
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 4:11pm
If your speech is based on a sales perspective, don't mention this. But if you are being subjective, why not mention it? Best for you to mention it vs. getting put on the spot during your discussions. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 5:20pm
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Well guys the speech was today. I feel it went very well, and the peer reviews seemed to reflect that. I was allotted 10 minutes, but I ran a bit over time and was docked 5 points. I don't really care though. I got my points across. Surprisingly there were no questions at the end. A few people came up to me afterwards and asked what I was doing after college, and I said, "Farming." They said to forget the farm, and be a salesman or something for Gleaner! One kid knew about Gleaner, and said I would be the perfect replacement for Kevin Bien. Lol One kid from the group who I knew was a green guy came up afterwards and said real quietly, "Good job." but he never looked me in the eye. I also saw some people give thumbs down when I was talking about how the JD rotor took 2 days to remove at the dealership. I think I got my points across, nonetheless. Thanks for all your advice, guys!
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Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 5:55pm
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Here is a link to the recording, as I thought some of you may enjoy watching/listening to the presentation. I realize there may be a couple mistakes in it, but it is kinda hard to remember everything exactly as it is, but I think it's a pretty good representation of Gleaner vs Deere. Unfortunately I didn't have time to cover everything I wanted to, but like I said earlier, we only had 10 minutes, so I tried to focus on the big things. If you guys have any suggestions/improvements, I'd like to hear them! The video quality isn't the best and you can't see the presentation very well, but it ends with the last 40 seconds of the "Gleaner Showcase Closing Video" on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhOTngXhdlA&feature=youtu.be" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhOTngXhdlA&feature=youtu.be
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Posted By: cwhit
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 6:16pm
| CrestonM, AGCO needs more people like you. Nice job. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 6:21pm
Thanks! That means a lot, especially coming from somebody other than my parents. Lol
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Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 6:40pm
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Sorry I didn't get in soon enough, Creston- One thing you may have been able to look up, is the quantity of insurance clames on burned up combines, and compared the numbers. I believe you'd find that combine harvesters that use more plastic covers, wear surfaces, etc., will appear in the category which is found burned up more often... and here are the two reasons I suspect to be the most at fault: First: Molded plastic parts can be made into wonderful shapes, but to preserve rigidity, they must be molded with substantially more convoluted shapes- additional planes and edges. These planes and edges provide more places for dust, dirt, and chaff to accumulate, and eventually, ignite... and once burning, the plastics become an aggressive accellerant. Second: Plastic guideways provide wonderful wear-resistance and reduce plant damage, but serve as excellent dielectric surfaces for creating static electricity. Galvanized steel, while not as 'nice' in this respect, provides an easy discharge path for static, thus, the source of ignition for dust fires is greatly reduced. I also believe that higher levels of automated intricacy exacerbate rapid burn-ups, for the following reasons: 1) Additional hydraulic lines, once breached, provide a healthy supply of accellerant to an already burning machine. 2) Additional electrical load for automated systems, sensors, and comfort equipment means more wiring harnesses, more connections, and more points for invitations for disaster. Finally: The agricultural environment is brutal. Take out all the bitter cold, intense heat, cold, dry, wet, UV and abrasive soil, and the need to run hard for one month without stopping, then sit for eleven waiting, and you still have rodents. Rodents, finding their way into places they don't realize they shouldn't be, building nests where we can't find them, chewing on everything and anything they can, to keep their teeth from overgrowing. Chewing into wires, hoses, belts, and plastic... ...but not galvanized steel. Only one force trumps a mouse: Galvanized steel. ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 6:48pm
| I agree with all of that 100%, Dave! Had I had about 30 minutes or an hour instead of 10, I would've definitely mentioned some of that. |
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 6:58pm
| THAT was AWESUM Creston! great job! if I were you, i'd send a copy of this to AGCO, they might hire you to do some presentations for them this winter! that should/would give you an edge over the othersand give you some more school/parents points! |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 7:05pm
| Thanks, Shameless! |
Posted By: ryan(IN)
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 7:06pm
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Great Job!! I had to "sell" a Gleaner in my sales class in community college last spring. I had even less time than you had and know that I did not do as good of a job. ------------- ryan 1984 8070 FWA,1979 7060,1975 7040,1971 190,1960 D-17D,1957 D-14, 196? D-19G, 1975 5040,1971? 160,1994 R62 |
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 7:22pm
| I just watched your presentation Creston and I must say you did a great job!!! Agco needs to hire you! Ryan |
Posted By: McAllis
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 8:03pm
| Great presentation! |
Posted By: Michael V (NM)
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 8:28pm
| I sure can't improve on what all the others said,, GOOD JOB |
Posted By: wekracer
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 8:39pm
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That was a very well done presentation. Congratulations to you. You didn’t just read a script but you kept it entertaining. That is not a gift many people are given. I have been watching gleaner road show videos with my 2year old son and to be honest you hit every point as well as the dealer promos. Well done. Also makes me miss college when I was thin and had hair. And girlfriends. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 8:39pm
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Thanks, both Ryans, McAllis, Michael, and Derek! I appreciate it!
We'll see what the Prof has to say next week when we (hopefully) get our grading rubrics back.
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Posted By: wayneIA
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 8:45pm
| Good job on the presentation, I am forwarding the link to the IH friend who was looking at the Gleaner this fall. On a side note, around here when farmers were running beans this fall, the fields that were the "greenest" (volunteer beans) were usually ran by the green machines too. There was a light green from one set of tire tracks to another, and a fairly heavy stripe of green between the tires (separator or shoe loss). |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 8:49pm
Thanks! Yep! I made sure to include that in my presentation. I included the photo from page 1 of this thread in my presentation, and when I described what those green stripes are and why they were there, everyone's jaws kinda dropped a little.
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Posted By: wayneIA
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 8:49pm
| Sorry forgot to mention on the rotor removal, they must have changed the stepped rotor then if you can pull it out the front. The older rotor designs were stepped (larger rear diameter than the front) and couldn't go forward. Sounds like they must have something going on with the rotor though yet if you have to remove that much off it to pull it yet. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 9:01pm
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Yeah, I heard someone say once on the older rotors you had to pull the engine and take it out the back. Now that sounds like it would take a week to remove. Lol It's hard to believe, for me at least, that even though the heart and sole of these Gleaners was pretty much designed in the 1960s, it is still unmatched today.
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Posted By: Jim Hancock
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 10:24pm
Bravo! Bravo! Standing Ovation! Well done!    ------------- How blessed we are by HIS GRACE! |
Posted By: Auntwayne
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 10:25pm
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Great job Creston. You make all of us on this forum proud to know you. And, yes, you could be the next Bien. Duane ------------- Dad always said," If you have one boy, you have a man. If you have two boys, you have two boys". "ALLIS EXPRESS" |
Posted By: SCJR
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 10:48pm
| Great job. We run a R76 with 35 ft draper. Deere dealer brought a demo s770 this fall. Yes it was very nice and would run about .5-.8 mph faster but seed quality in tank was not impressive at all. I'm not used to having dry pods in tank and when we tried to get them out had more splits. They are heavy pigs! There is still a lot of gleaners around here but the driving 2-3 hours one way for parts gets old. We keep a lot of parts/belts on hand and if not an emergency our dealer will direct ship from KC. |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2017 at 1:07am
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After watching your video, I'm ready to buy one even though my All Crop 60 does the job for me right now. We know that some AGCO suits lurk on this site. I sure hope one of them passes your video on to upper management. Seriously, AGCO needs to hire you to promote Gleaners! ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: ihc pickups
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2017 at 8:56am
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Excellent job Creston. Agco brass needs to see this. ------------- Mike |
Posted By: Alberta Phil
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2017 at 10:38am
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Very professional presentation, Creston. Nicely done by a presenter that obviously knows his subject! |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2017 at 4:17pm
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Thanks Jim, Duane, SCJR, John, Mike, and Phil! John...I could sell you a S96...the smallest of the S9 combines, and it would be the closest in capacity to your 60, out of all 3 current models. Lol But yeah...working for Agco doing something for Gleaner has always been sort of a dream occupation, but I never expected anything to come of it, unless I get an ag engineering degree or something of that magnitude. I guess really my interest solely in Gleaner started when I was little riding in the L3 my grandpa bought back in '86. Even in the early 2000's, there was talk of trading that awesome machine in for a green one. At first I was on board, being raised a JD kid. However, the sentimental side of the Gleaners (that's all grandpa ever had) got to me, and that's the only reason I liked Gleaner to start with (little kid at the time) Once I was old enough to see past colors and really understand how things worked, my previous thinking that Deere was better was like a slap in the face. Even as a young kid I could tell it didn't look like it would work well, so I began to dig deeper into what made Gleaner the greatest machine ever, solely in hopes I could convince the family to hold onto the L3. However, I realized if its destiny was to end up in someone else's shed, I needed to wash the green paint off the family's glasses, per se, and make sure the next combine would still be Gleaner.
Luckily, the L3 is still in the barn, but my favor toward Gleaner is no longer just because grandpa had them (although I'm very proud of that). Rather now, I try to be unbiased in my explanations of the different combines to people, relying only on facts. I don't like it when people justify if a machine is good or bad based on their opinions/experiences with them, if they don't use facts as well. |