CA problem of the day, oil pan leak.
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=144287
Printed Date: 25 Jul 2025 at 10:59pm
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Topic: CA problem of the day, oil pan leak.
Posted By: kenbob
Subject: CA problem of the day, oil pan leak.
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 9:28pm
| The CA I just bought is dripping oil near the back of the pan. I don't think it is the rear main seal as i clean up the pan and the drips keep coming, even though the tractor is not started. Not sure the guy i got it from used a gasket, just permatex. Is this the prefered way to put on the pan. Is there a trick to installing it, as those back bolts are tricky to reach when engine is on the tractor. Thanks again for all the help. |
Replies:
Posted By: kenbob
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 10:49pm
| I found the post for the oil pan gasket with the B. I assume I will have the same trouble with the CA and have to rotate the pan a certain way, except, I have the narrow front end. Was it the wide front that gave people trouble? Gluing the gasket to the pan looks like a great move. |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 5:43am
| The B front is the only one with the front pivot bolt head that interferes with the pan removal. |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 5:59am
Regardless where the leak is coming from when the engine stops the oil is in the bottom of the pan and could only leak out if the engine was over filled or a hole in the pan. Several places could have had a gasket failure to cause your type of oil drip with the crankshaft seal being one. Oil will collect on surfaces and can drip for some time after the engine stops running from all of them. Inspection of all those areas and proper replacement seals and gaskets is about the only way to have a drip free engine.  With the engine on a stand, as in the picture, you can see all the areas where the gaskets ends will need extra attention to keep from having leaks front and rear. When inspecting the gasket areas you may find that both rear and front cover seal retainers will need removed. |
kenbob wrote:Posted By: kenbob
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 6:56am
| Thanks. I am going to not run it for a few weeks as fall work is done. Keep cleaning on it and see if it quits. THose pans are pretty shallow and the tracter is parked uphill in my garage. Not much of a slope but the leak is at the back. In light of other poor work I have found on the tractor, I will probably do the pan gasket. Maybe off the tractor I can find a crack if there is one. Thanks again. |
Posted By: rustyorange45
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 8:17am
|
I was the second caller on that tractor, I remember the add saying it had minor issues. I wound up buying the CA in Topeka with the rear blade. It has leaks also. They will get fixed. Sorry to hear about the problems you are having with your tractor, just remember it is 65 years old and things wear out. Old tractors are a labor of love and fixing them is something a guy enjoys doing. From the pictures in the ad it was a sharp looking tractor and a good price, so don't get too discouraged with the problems you are facing. It sounds like you are getting a lot of things done and you will learn a lot from the folks on the forum, I sure have. Good luck! ------------- 1953 WD45 WF/Model 90 Loader, Oxnard Rear Blade, 80R Mower, Model 209 Disc, WD Rear Mounted Scoop, Model 184 & 160 Rotary Mowers, 1952 CA NF/L306CA mower, 1953 CA WF/Model 8 Loader. |
Posted By: kenbob
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 8:34am
| I was taken by it because the motor ran so sweet and quiet. I have plowed with it a bunch (1 bottom) and in the garden it will plow deep 1/2 throttle. On 30 year sod with solid clay beneath, the had clutch slipped a little. More leaks than the Titanic, but the big one, the pump was fixed easily enough and for pennies. I understand a lot of this stuff wouldn't be used on a ride/parade tractor, but the wobble in the steering surprised me. He did the big Nebraska tractor run wit it. THat would have been miserable if they were going over 10mph. I am guessing that bottom bearing is shot. I know when I put grease in it it ran right out the bottom. So that stuff has run dry for a while. That is the next project after the oil pan. Ever done one? Do you have to disconect the stearing gear fromthe shaft, or when you take the 4 bolts out of the pedistal will it all come out the bottom. |
Posted By: rustyorange45
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 8:40am
|
I have not done any steering repairs, but if you have the manual it should give at least a general idea how to go about it. I am sure someone on the forum has done this and will give you the answer you are looking for. ------------- 1953 WD45 WF/Model 90 Loader, Oxnard Rear Blade, 80R Mower, Model 209 Disc, WD Rear Mounted Scoop, Model 184 & 160 Rotary Mowers, 1952 CA NF/L306CA mower, 1953 CA WF/Model 8 Loader. |
Posted By: rustyorange45
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 8:46am
|
Didn't that tractor come with a 2 bottom plow? Have you used it? The one on Craigslist North of KC for $1250.00 has a 2 bottom plow with it. ------------- 1953 WD45 WF/Model 90 Loader, Oxnard Rear Blade, 80R Mower, Model 209 Disc, WD Rear Mounted Scoop, Model 184 & 160 Rotary Mowers, 1952 CA NF/L306CA mower, 1953 CA WF/Model 8 Loader. |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 9:10am
|
The G. B. C. and CA shop manual may have some help for the oil pan leak. http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/Allis-Chalmers-G-B-C-CA-Service.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/Allis-Chalmers-G-B-C-CA-Service.pdf Gerald J. |
Posted By: wfmurray
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 9:13am
| One way to put on a pan gasket and keep it from slipping is to tie it through the bolt holes with sewing thread.You can leave thread in place and it will still seal. |
Posted By: kenbob
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 9:25am
|
Also have rattlein the gears. My old cousin who is an Allic CA expert says the bearings at both end of the transmission are bad. He made this guess without seeing it run. Yes, it came with 2 bottom, but one was off. That was ok for my purposes as I am doing a lot of plowing but in small quarters. I have to back down the row. Am able to go 8" deep with 1 bottom in soil that isn't all clay. Hand clutch slips too, but once I get all this sod plowed up, replowing should not tax the clutch. Yes, that tractor was for sale in greenwood before I bought mine listed at a higher price I think. I had considered buying that tractor too and if gears and clutch were good swapping halves of the tractors. I have been calling him for 2 days and no response. I actually tried to call him when it was advertised before i got mine. Never answered that time either. I figured he had sold it. Now back on, cheaper price, still no answer. The two tractors are less than 300 numbers apart on serial nos.
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Posted By: kenbob
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 9:26am
| Wow! That is a good tip! |
Posted By: kenbob
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 9:45am
| Thanks for sending the manual....it is much better than the one that came with the tractor. I knew there had to be one with more detail out there somewhere. |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 11:11am
You need to remove the steering arm just to check to see where places it has play. It may be in both the pedestal and steering box. You sure don't want to try removing the pedestal without unhooking the steering arm. They are heavy and with the tires on will want to go all directions you are not planning on going. The bottom seal might be bad but if the bottom bearing in the pedestal is bad it probably wouldn't wobble. Wore out gear at the top in the pedestal and pawls bad in the steering box will. |
Posted By: rustyorange45
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 1:42pm
|
I am following this with great interest. The steering is tight on mine but I will have to check the grease in it though so it doesn't wear out. I do have a leak at the rear of the motor, not too bad yet. Lots of good information here! ------------- 1953 WD45 WF/Model 90 Loader, Oxnard Rear Blade, 80R Mower, Model 209 Disc, WD Rear Mounted Scoop, Model 184 & 160 Rotary Mowers, 1952 CA NF/L306CA mower, 1953 CA WF/Model 8 Loader. |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 1:59pm
|
When working on steering gears, keep in mind that you can adjust clearances all you want, but the reality is that your clearance will only be correct at the point you made the adjustment... and in other positions, will be either too loose, or too tight. Why? Because the tractor spends most of it's time running in a straight line, and your steering corrections occur most in a straight-line position, which means the gears (regardless of wether it's worm-and-sector, or rack and pinion, or recirculating ball... ) will always have the greatest amount of wear at the centered position. Getting new bearings and bushings will help tremendously, but don't expect a miracle. If you want them to be really, really, really good, you can clean out the pedestal good, put a motor on the worm, switches on the sector, and make the motor run the steering from lock-to-lock, and then pack the worm and sector with toothpaste and valve lapping compound... let it run back and forth for a few days, then tighten up the gear lash... run it for a few more... just keep tightening it up... till you can't find any noticeable slop in the MIDDLE and get no noticeable change in resistance towards the ends... then disassemble, clean it all out, new bearings, seals, and grease, and set it up, it should be pretty darned nice after that. ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 2:48pm
| The CA has two pawls in the steering box rather than one. I replaced the pawls in one and the other had very little ware. I have one tore apart somewhere that I never got around to put back together. I think it is in the tool shop at the factory. I don't think I took any pictures of those. |
Posted By: kenbob
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 9:31pm
|
Thanks guys. This is stuff that ain't in the book. I know the seal is out in the bottom of the pedestal, but it is good to know the bearing there isnt the problem. I will take the arm off the steering box and check. Then, go deep if I have too. Or maybe not. The Ca probably will never make the ride circuit so fixing the wobble isn't essential, but since I know it is not holding grease, I guess it will get worse fast. Only other tractor I have worked on much was an SC Case. Don't remember all the particulars, but to fix the steering in that tractor you took it apart at the steering box and turned one of the gears a half turn and presto...new threads that had never been used before. Of course the other half of the equation was still worn, but it made a huge difference.
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Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 5:19am
If the shaft in the pedestal has been turned 180º to try to fix play in the steering it will cause wobble. The axle is supposed to trail the shaft like any swivel caster. If the shaft has been turned 180º to where it is leading the shaft it will keep trying to trail like any swivel caster which will cause it to try first one way and then the other. The picture shows the axle welded off center. 
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Posted By: kenbob
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 7:37am
| Thanks for another great tip! I looked. Mine is on the correct way. |
Posted By: kenbob
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 10:44am
|
Thanks to all of you guys, I am getting my Allis education. Went to the tractor today and measured the play in the steering assembly. I had 1/8" in the system. I disconnected the rod (whatever it is called) between the arm on the steering box at the back and the arm at the front of the tractor. I still had 1/8" at the back arm, but 3/8 to 1/2" at the front. I thought that meant my problem was in front. Then I rotated the arm at the steering box back and forth. There was no catch when pulling it back (left turn?) but just before center on a right turn (when the arm was pretty much straight up, there was a definite catch. So I guess there is a little trouble at both ends. The guy who said all of the wear is in a very narrow range is right on. Besides that I found for the firt time the grease plug for the top front bearing (hiding under the cultivator bracket. I couldn't understand how grease put into the lower plug made it to the top bearing. I am learning! It made me think about my previous experience with the Case. Almost the first thing mentioned in the AC shop manual was a proud proclamation the tractor had no grease zirks. The Case had them everywhere...even in places where you didn't expect to find them.
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Posted By: kenbob
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 10:48am
| Another thing: I thought I had the wheel bearings adjusted right. WIth no load I could not wiggle the tire top to bottom on either side. They spun like they should. Now when I went out there I could feel just a tad of play in each wheel wiggling the top while the tires are resting on the ground. I tried this with my cousin's CA and didn't get any movement. (His was on dirt rather than concrete) I looked at bearings and races and thought they looked great. Am I right in assuming the bearings are not as good as they look? |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 12:09pm
| When tightening the front wheel bearing you want it tightened just enough that you that when spinning the tire it shows some slight drag. You do not want them to spin freely as a spinning top. If you feel any tipping from top to bottom the bearings will not last long. All tapered bearings need to have a slight drag. Key word is "slight". |
Posted By: kenbob
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 12:47pm
| Had the bearings so the wheels turned with just a little drag. Maybe 3/4 to one turn before stopping. Next notch tigher gets only a quarter of a spin. |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 2:48pm
The question is how they spin now? I would recheck it if you have any wiggle/tipping now. |
Posted By: kenbob
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 3:22pm
| I think I am just going to get new bearings. It will save me grief in the long run. |
Posted By: kenbob
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 4:26pm
| ok, just when i think I have it figured out, I read something that confuses me. When looking for new wheel bearings on the net, I came across a 2012 post on this site asking about which side of the grease seals faced the axle. The reply was the cupped side always faces the grease. Now to my way of looking at it if you had a coffee cup, the cupped side would be the side where you put the coffee in. That does not appear to be the way the manuals show it or how they are mounted on my tractor. The part with the depression and the lip of the cup face the pedestal . Flat side with no lip faces the grease/wheel. Is this right or wrong? |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 4:39pm
Think about any lip seal this way. The grease or oil to be held in will be called the pressure side. If pressure is place against the seal will the seal tend to lift off the shaft or will the pressure tend to hold the lip to the shaft. After thinking this thru you should be good to go. |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 4:49pm
Did you wash the old grease out of the old bearings and inspect the rollers? If the rollers and cup are smooth and the rollers tight you would not gain any thing by putting in new bearings. It they are clean and smooth and packed with grease in the palm of your hand and properly tightened they will out last you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhL1uAp_WCw" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhL1uAp_WCw |
Posted By: kenbob
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 5:45pm
| Me thinking it through like you said makes me think they were in backwards. I suppose that makes a difference on how the bearings snug up too! |
Posted By: kenbob
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 7:15am
| Pulled the pan off the Titanic (CA). Looks like the previous owner did a bad job with blue rtf, AND in the back where it was leaking there was old gasket. I got the new felpro cork and am going to do it with glue on the pan side as in the photo. It seems like a bette way to go as I am going to be doing this from the bottom up and I am afraid if I use rtf I might wiggle it too much trying to hold it up and put it on. Anybody else have a comment or suggestion before I start....Oh I checked and pan appears to be flat in all places and no dimples around the bolt holes. |
Posted By: kenbob
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 7:19am
| My manual doesnt have a torque number for the pan bolts. I could use some suggestions on how tight. Can I do it without a torque wrench? |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 8:28am
| No torque number with a cork spongy gasket. You have to snug the pan tight without bending the pan. Once you bend the pan slightly at the bolts it lifts the pan between the bolts. You want to snug all the bolts and then tighten a little bit at a time watching close to keep from bending the pan. The lock washers will flatten without bending the pan and keep the bolt from backing out. If your lucky enough to have a cast iron pan this is not a problem. |