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any ideas?

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Topic: any ideas?
Posted By: shameless dude
Subject: any ideas?
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2017 at 10:14pm
boughts a new ceiling light for the kitchen. old one quit working. so we gots that fancy one with the metal grid and 2 lights, usually pics show where people hangs their pans on hooks off it. our ceiling is to low to hang any pans off it, but it still looks good. any ways...finally gots it hung, (my balance has kinda gone to chit the past couple years), puts 2 LED bulbs in it.....and nothing! it don't light up. I have 2 light switches in the kitchen, one on each end of the room, I replaced one switch, and will do the other tomarrow, if that don't work, i'm at a loss. the ceiling light is on the same curcuit as the plug ins on the counter, and they all work.



Replies:
Posted By: JC(WI)
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 12:14am
Maybe you forgots to hook up some wires???   ....... correctly? or turn the circuit back on?


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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself


Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 4:56am

   Oh,,,OH,,,,,Good Buddy,,,It lookin like maybe the "old" fixture was OK just something else wrong 'sides the fixture,,,???  Don't you got you a test meter,,??  You want I should send you one of them Freebies I got at Harbor freight grand opening down to C-Bad?? I gots 3-4 of em by goin in and out till they finally caught on and told me no more free testors,,dang cheap people,,,,!!!Wink
 Seriously,,I ain't no juice-trician,,but using a testor is your best friend ('cept me, you understand)  If the old one "quit" and the new one don't work,,,,,you got issues with thet circuit,,,don'cha think,,,???Wink


Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 7:31am
You haven't smelled any burnt mice lately, have you.....? Darrel


Posted By: Hubert (Ga)engine7
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 8:25am
Possibly a bad switch. Like DJ says - get a test meter and go to chasing sparks. You will have to have 3 way switches in both locations and they have to be wired correctly for the light to work. The receptacles should NOT be on the same circuit as the light fixture but "electricians" often take shortcuts and pull power from the closest source. Pull a wiring schematic off the internet to get an idea of how the wires need to be connected, no guarantee yours will be the same though.

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Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.


Posted By: Hubert (Ga)engine7
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 8:40am
Originally posted by darrel in ND darrel in ND wrote:

You haven't smelled any burnt mice lately, have you.....? Darrel

A  likely possibility. I almost had an out building burn down because mice or squirrels (tree rats) got in the attic and chewed the insulation off the wire going to the water heater and it shorted out. The breaker tripped but when I tried to reset it a spark set the insulation or their nest on fire. Had to bust through 1x6 ceiling boards so I could get a water hose in there to the seat of the fire. I have known the little bastards to bite through copper wire.


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Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.


Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 8:44am
'fun' job... there's 3 or 4 ways you can actually wire in a light with 2, 3 way switches as well as a couple 'creative' ways 'electricians' use....
The basic idea( it's esy to 'see' the flow here) is...
The power comes from breaker in main panel to the marked terminal of one of the 3Way switches.
Then from there power goes to TWO wires to the other 3 Way switch
Then from the marked terminal power goes to the light bulb.

They can be a real 'can of worms' as wires/cables won't be marked and there are 'variations' that baffle anyone.

One clue is it USED to work, so the wires are probably OK. The switch that you replaced, did you wire it exactly as the old one?
Too late now, but taking pictures really,really helps as well as putting tags on the wires.

If the LEDs are screw in types, replace with a normal GOOD bulb. That way you KNOW it ain't a bad bulb...

Jay



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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water


Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 8:48am
I understand that Led lamps are polarized, try turning the lamps around/over or whatever it takes to reverse the the polarity.

Dusty


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917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"


Posted By: TBone
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 9:05am
Some of the OLD switches had the wires in different places. You can't put the wires on the same studs on a NEW switch. The old switches are different than the new switches.
Hope that makes sense.
The switch has 3 places to put wires. 2 on one side and 1 on the other. If you wire it the same as the old switch, you probably have one wire in the wrong place.
The wires SHOULD be Black, Red, White and (green-ground).
The feed from the circuit breaker or fuse panel will only be two wires, Black and white and (green-ground).
Hard to tell you on the way to wire it as some of the older wiring in houses is nothing but black. That's a MESS to say the least.
Look on the OLD switch to see if there are any numbers or letters to tell you what goes there. Then look at the new switch to correlate it.
HTHs


Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 9:24am
I suspect that one of those three way switches has went bad.  You need a meter to be sure you don't have power up to the new ceiling light to be sure then you can test at each switch to see if power makes it that far.

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1957 WD45 dad's first AC

1968 one-seventy

1956 F40 Ferguson


Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 9:48am
Some people kinda leave themselves open with out thinking. Cause I am so sure there are a lot of ideas floating around about one DUDE,many may not be helpful to current problem so back to being the helpful deplorable's most of us are.


Maybe time to stop trying to beCry Mr HandymanCry and get some able to fiscally climb,crawl,and stand on there head.  I am at that place also but I have 3 kids Winktime to start leaning on them for more help some times. But if the wires are where you can reach SAFELY you need a meter or other device to tell you what kind of power you have.

I have a meter but kinda hard to hold make connection for test and read moving needle in some of the places you get standing on your head. So I got a little plastic pen like device with test leads that has 1 light on at 110,2 at 220 and so on and was cheap at the electric supply store. An if you have not shenanigan the poor local running the real electric supply they can help you a lot more than going to that Tractor Supply and the other big chains that end up with a lot of know nothings.  So good luck,and don't come crying about falling off the ladder.


Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 10:19am
Hot lead - ground - traveler wire - need to be hooked in right . 
Switch position of the travelers needs to be looked at close - which wire is used between switched and to the light . 
 Then in hallway I have 2 / 3 way switches with dimmer built into them and also delay circuit so light dims slowly when you push to go off - they take about 10 seconds to go dark - have same in kitchen light with the 2 switched and dimmer. 
 one of them switches went bad - real chore tracing which one the first time around - sometimes the reading of the direction on the box the switch came in helps . 
 Oh and some LED bulbs do not work with dimmers - again look at the directions on bulb package. 
 LED bulbs are polarity sensitive - but in AC electric there isn't a polarity issue , it switches every 1/60 th of a second - 60 cycle AC current 



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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 10:27pm
I looked at all my new switches I already gots, and only find the ones for normal use, not 3-way. I did hook up one of those, but it still won't light the light up! I have power (ask my fingers). I can't get to the wires as they are between the floor and ceiling imbedded in insulation. I guess i'll hafta go get new 3-way switches and try that. on the old switch, 2 wires hooked up on one side, and the other side had one hookup. since I only had a normal switch, I put a wire nut and tape on the end of the one wire. everytime the old lady....oooops....I mean the loving wife wants to change something....it turns to CHIT!   


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2017 at 5:59pm
I replaced one switch with a new 3 way switch, on one wall there are 2 black wires, and one white wire, on the other wall there are 2 black wires and a red wire! I hooked the odd wire (red one and white one) on the single side of the switches, and put the 2 black wires on the same side of the switch. since I took both switches off they were the regular ones, so not sure where that 3rd wire (black) should go?


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 12:39am
.


Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 6:00am
LED bulbs designed for AC (aka Household)  use are NOT 'polarity' sensitive !! AC means Alternating Current, goes + and - 120 volts, 60 times a second on our side of the pond.
LED bulbs consist of Light Emitting Diodes( give them power  and they glow) as well as  some 'electronics' to convert 120 volts AC into the DC power the LEDs need. White LEDs run on about 2.3 volts DC, so the 'electronics' has to change the AC into DC as well as limit voltage and current. Too much cuurent and you'll get a very,very bright LED for a millisecond of too, then it's off to the landfill !

Now LED bulbs for cars,trucks, tractors and LOW VOLTAGE off-grid use ARE 'generally' polarity sensitive. These units are marked 12 volts DC, one wire is +ve, the other -ve. If you hook the cheap ones up 'backwards', flash,poof, landfill. The better ones are 'reverse polarity protected' so they don't light up but they don't fail either. The GOOD ones are actually NOT plarity sensitive and will work no matter how you wire them up. Inside them is a 5 cent bridge recitfier that 'magically' allows them to function.

Jay


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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water


Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 6:46am
Originally posted by shameless dude shameless dude wrote:

I looked at all my new switches I already gots, and only find the ones for normal use, not 3-way. I did hook up one of those, but it still won't light the light up! I have power (ask my fingers). I can't get to the wires as they are between the floor and ceiling imbedded in insulation. I guess i'll hafta go get new 3-way switches and try that. on the old switch, 2 wires hooked up on one side, and the other side had one hookup. since I only had a normal switch, I put a wire nut and tape on the end of the one wire. everytime the old lady....oooops....I mean the loving wife wants to change something....it turns to CHIT!   
 
"I put a wire nut and tape on the end of the one wire." ....It sounds like you've got things totally confuzzled.  You need a meter, know how to use it, or find someone that does. 
 
Your first post, you say you had a switch at each end of the kitchen, so those were 3 way.  Now you're trying to hook up a 2 way to check things out and say it won't turn it on either.  When you turned the experimental 2 way on, did you leave it on and go switch the other one?  Might have worked.....depending how screwed up things are.


Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 7:41am
Google 3 way switch wiring and you will get lots of pictures of how to connect them switches.

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1957 WD45 dad's first AC

1968 one-seventy

1956 F40 Ferguson


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 9:56am
yes....I tried both switches every time I put one in. I now have 2 new 3 way switches, so far....nuthin! PffffT! guess i'll pull the light fixture back down, make sure a wire didn't slip out of the wire nut while putting it on!


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 10:04am
o-k....if I unhook all the wires and temp hook up wires to each switch then try it before remounting them back in the wall, it should light up the light? right? or do both switches have to be hooked up? I have the google on next door right now


Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 10:05am
You tried both switches, but did you turn your new 2 way on, leave it on, then try the other?  Sounds like you've got things befuddled beyond that though.
 
No pictures.  No sketches.  No mentions of the use of a meter.  We want to help, but it's very hard in this case.


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 10:20am
can I block off one switch as we never use the one, and just hook up one switch to use? goggle doesn't tell me about this?


Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 10:34am
Originally posted by shameless dude shameless dude wrote:

o-k....if I unhook all the wires and temp hook up wires to each switch then try it before remounting them back in the wall, it should light up the light? right? or do both switches have to be hooked up? I have the google on next door right now
This would not have worked.
 
If you had 3 ways switches, and you were switching "hot" like you're supposed to, then the hot wire has a break (each switch) in 2 places.  So if you leave one unhooked and put a test switch in the other, you will be leaving the hot side of the circuit open.  If you followed the flow of each wire, the hot will go from the box, to a switch, to the other switch, to the light.  If you figure out which wire goes from switch to switch, un hook it, and put a 2 way from the one you want to use to the light, yes it will work.
 
It works electrically to switch neutral, but ya' ain't supposed to do it that way.  This is why you should be using a meter, because even though wires are supposed to be a certain color, you can't always rely on that!
 
 


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 10:56am
what kind of meter?


Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 11:09am
Oh man, that's like asking someone what kind of beer to drink or whether you should notill or not.
 
There's 100's of them.  But something more informative than a test light, where you can check resistance / continuity, current, actual voltage level rather than just there or not there. 


Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 11:15am
If you had even a test light, you could find what 2 wires give you voltage to the switch, verify when you turn the switch on that you get voltage out, then with the old la....loving wife managing the switching, you could take the new fixture down and see what wires get hot when the switch is turned on.  Heck, the new fixture might be bad in some way, I've seen it!


Posted By: Hubert (Ga)engine7
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 11:16am
A cheap meter from Harbor Freight will work for what you are doing. I get them for free. You can also get a non contact test light from Lowe's, HD, etc. I keep one in my tool pouch and use it all the time on building wiring, has saved me from getting shocked lots of times.

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Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 11:19am
I just found one diagram on line, and I think it'll work, I know when looking at that diagram I do have some wires switched....


Posted By: Hubert (Ga)engine7
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 4:27pm
If you don't want to spend the $ on a meter or a test light just lick your index finger and quickly touch the wire, if you are grounded good you will know if it is hot. LOL

BTW the Ideal brand test light is one of the better ones.


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Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.


Posted By: Dave in PA
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 4:40pm
Like above said, testing meters, are your best friend in this situation.  Locate the wires, where they come from, and go, then look at the pictures to help out.  I learned to do electric in a way of water, it flows this way, then flows this way, like running down a pipe!
Works for me, and I can do most all with that knowledge!  First thing in electric to do, is find the POWER SUPPLY, what line is carrying the power to the box from the panel!!!!!  Then go from there.


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 5:44pm
Hubert...I already know about the "bite" from the hot wire, and I don't hafta lick my fingers! LOL , biggest problem is, on one switch I have 1 red wire and 2 black wires, and the other switch has 3 black wires! been changing wires around on the switches and trying them each time. gots bit only twice (so far) LOL. and if'n I can't figger out how to post pics on this site, it'll takes me months how to learn to use a meter thingy!


Posted By: HD6GTOM
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 7:29pm
I hate 3 way switches. Can't mix new ones with old ones.


Posted By: Hubert (Ga)engine7
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 8:33pm
You can  learn to use the meter in less than 5 minutes for what you need, and a non contact test light takes even less time. The less expensive the meter, the easier it is to learn to use it. I have one high dollar meter and I don't know how to use half of the functions on it, it stays in the tool box most of the time. 

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Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.


Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 6:58am

 Hey Good Buddy,,,I'm beginnin to worry bout your wantin to experiment with your life,,,,,Why'nt you put some of your famous steaks on the grill and call ole Les to come over and help,,,??? You could even offer to trade work for work by helpin him on his ford thks,,,??? Ole Les been messin with juice-tricity like forever on them water wells,,and,,,,and,,,could figure thet out in a heartbeat,,!! You kinda playin with a potential "OH-OH" there,,,,,,and don't go believing that  120 VAC won't kill you,,,,
 Now,,,I ain't no juice-trician but safe'tiest way to identify which wire is which is with a meter and  NOT YOUR FINGERS,,!!!you would need some extra wire, a meter with "continuity" to verify which black wire goes from one location to the other,,,,there,,!!  I feel better now,,,CALL LES,,,,he don't charge anything,,,him bein retired,,,,LOL


Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 7:01am

 Yeah,,Hubert,,,I got one of them Fluke Meters that I "found" at work many years ago but I always reach for one that is lots easier to understand,,,plus I gots a few of them Harbor Freight specials that will do the job most of the time,,,,,,Clap


Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 7:21am
I love my Fluke 177 meter, but it's pricey and not needed for this very true. 
 
Probably one of the black wires in the switch with 3 black wires "matches" the red wire so to speak.  A continuity check would tell you in a heartbeat.  Speaking of which, joe is right, be friggin' careful.  Changing wires around on switches and such....lucky you ain't made something go zap!


Posted By: Dave H
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 8:34am
Truly an adventure here, think it can last to the first snow fall?  LOL

Reminds me of when the Jacuzzi tub went on the fritz and I could not get someone that knew how to fix them to come out in the "country'.


Posted By: Dave in PA
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 4:34pm
Maybe he will be working on the wires all winter, and forget to get the machine up and runnin'?????


Posted By: JC(WI)
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 6:42pm
He's prolly tryin to get light in the kitchen so he can run his remote controlls to that machine....
  Don't worry about ol Shameless there DJ, he prolly needs a few charges to spark up his life... LOL    
     mmmm, was that mean?     Might have meant to be fer him sendin 4 inches of rain the other night. AngryGRRRRAngry         LOL


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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 3:29am
in the main switch (the one we use all the time) there is 2 sets of wires coming into the box from the wall. one has a white wire and a black wire, the other has a red wire and a black wire. the white wire is spliced together with another white wire and it goes back into the wall. and a black wire comes back out! PfffffT! I haven't been able to get to town to find what ever kinda meter ya'll say I needs...


Posted By: Les Royer
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 5:04am
I can come hep ya good buddy. An I can brings a meter or two.

You see it makes a difference if the power iz going to a switch or the light.

No, we didn't make it gown to ole Thad'shin dig again. I'm pretty bummed out about that.


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I still gots my A/C but it's clear out in the barn now.


Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 5:38am

  LES,,,!!!   Les,,,you is a standup Guy,,,but you knew thet din'cha,,??? I'm glad you volunteered cause I can feel ole Shameless is gettin sorta pee'd off and that is when people make mistakes,,,!!
  I got to tell this story,,,A Brother-in-law of the Wife's brother up in Nort Dakota had got a contract to salvage the wiring in some houses that were bein tore down and they were susspossed to have been "safed" by a juicetrician prior to the contract bein let.,,,,,,,, They found the guy dead the next day still hung up on the wiring that was deemed "safe" just days before,,,,,,,Ouch
 SO,,,Les,,,,,you feel free to give ole Shameless some quick tutorin on how to use a meter for testin  continuity and,,,,and,,,while you is in the tutorin stage,,,show him how to take pictures with his phone and post em too ,,,he's been owin us many pics on all sorts of "stuff",,,,LOL
 Say,,,what was the story on the Hitch hiker,,,,???


Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 7:29am
Yeah, what was that story??!! Smile

Dale, google "3-way switch diagram"  and take a gander.......that way you'll know something when Les gets there. Big smile

Les, I know you're a good hearted guy, BUT,,,,,,,,,youse a well driller an a (almost) plumber.  To be playin electrician?????????  I hope you know that water and electricity DO NOT MIX! Dead
PS.......Shameless, DO NOT READ THIS part..........Les, take a BIG pipe wrench with ya,,,,you'll know what to do with it.....Wink Clap Ermm


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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 11:27pm
I wents to wally world and looked at a bunch of meter things, bought...a circuit tester, then saw a no contact voltage detector and boughts that too. guess I better read the directions tonight on them, maybe they ain't even what I need? if not, i'll have them for something else down the road, unless I loses them!


Posted By: Les Royer
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2017 at 3:24am
Jest dont leave em layin on yer flat bed!

I thougt I PMed you thet story Joe!


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I still gots my A/C but it's clear out in the barn now.


Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2017 at 7:41am
Shameless, for a small price I can come to your place and fix it for you.

Retired, or retarded, Master Electrician.
Dusty


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917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"


Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2017 at 8:13am
Shameless, PM me your ph# and I'll call you and try to talk you through it.
What's most confusing is because the wire is romex and the white wire is allowed to be used a hot one when used with a switch.

Dusty


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917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"


Posted By: Les Royer
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2017 at 12:25pm
Boy I hope he makes thet phone call. If I remember correctly, he tried to burn the house down by usin an extension cord on thet washin machine out that on the porch an he had thet cord looped aroiund the house 3 times cause it was to long and plugged into an outside outlet and caught the outlet on fire!


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I still gots my A/C but it's clear out in the barn now.


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2017 at 5:32pm
Les...I gots that POS washing machine set so I could plugs it in to an honest to goodness wall outlet. the other wall outlet (that is outside) is the one that fried...(prolly gots wet) it's still hanging out from the box outside, i'm sure it's a dead one now! i'll replace it on of these days. will prolly hafta paint around it to hide the burn marks tho! the old lady....ooooops....I mean the loving wife refuses to use the new washing machine now...guess i'll puts it ona sale somewhere. it works fine sometimes! on this light switch BS I change the wires around, walk back and forth switching both them on and off, then change another wire and do the same. I been writing down which way I wire it each time so I don't do the same thing twice. as I read on the web, the red wire goes to the single screw on the one side of the switch, that's the way all the diagrams show anyway! I NEED A SMOKE!


Posted By: Dave in PA
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2017 at 5:43pm
First off, did ya read the instructions for the testers yet?  Did ya use them yet?  Once you find the "feed" wire, then go from there.  Look on the 3 way switch, not all are the same, one screw will say common, and the other 2 MIGHT be a different color, they will be the travelers to the other switch.  A feed from the panel will be hooked to one common, and the wire going to the light will be hooked to the other common at the other location.  The neturals will be connected together/ should be the white wires. Not seeing your situation, every job is different. 


Posted By: JC(WI)
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2017 at 10:50pm
   several diagrams over at google....
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1536&bih=734&q=three+way+light+switch+set+up&oq=three+way+light+switch+set+up&gs_l=img.12...4736.18833.0.23732.31.31.0.0.0.0.206.3386.8j22j1.31.0....0...1.1.64.img..0.21.2339...0j0i30k1j0i5i30k1j0i8i30k1j0i24k1.0.gCujCeG2ZyU#imgrc=_" rel="nofollow - http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1536&bih=734&q=three+way+light+switch+set+up&oq=three+way+light+switch+set+up&gs_l=img.12...4736.18833.0.23732.31.31.0.0.0.0.206.3386.8j22j1.31.0....0...1.1.64.img..0.21.2339...0j0i30k1j0i5i30k1j0i8i30k1j0i24k1.0.gCujCeG2ZyU#imgrc=_

heres one...


and another similer...



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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2017 at 2:26am
read the instructions on both, tried them both, neither one worked. PffffT! I figger i'll, well I did...attach the red wire to the single screw on the one side, and now will just switch wires til I gits something! geeeez,,,it worked with the 3 way switches for 64 yeears, and I've changed light fixtures 3-4 times and never had any problems til now. I STILL NEED A SMOKE!


Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2017 at 6:33am
NO Shameless you DO NOT NEED A SMOKE !!! THAt is your first problem....

OK, can you take a picture of the switch boxes/wiring and post here? If not describe the 2nd box stuff.
The first one has 1 wire(Blk,Wht and 1 wire( Blk,Red, Wht). Assuming it's the one connected to fuse box... the blk-wht is the feed so that blk goes to the COMMON of the 3W switch. The other wire( 3 conductor) is the 'traveller' wire. It's red and blk go to the OTHER 3 way switch terminals (NOT the COMMON though). the 1st box ,both whites get tied together.
In the 2nd box, the COMMON of the switch feeds power to the light bulb, and both the wht of the 'traveller' wire and the wire going to the light bulb get tied together.

fuse box     1st box        traveller           2nd box        light bulb
blk---------common                             common-------brass screw
wht---------wht--wht-------------------wht--wht-----silver screw
                       --red--------------------red--
                        --blk--------------------blk--
On the 3w switches the COMMON should be marked or 1 colour.

hope this helps.
and
DO NOT SMOKE !!

Jay




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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water


Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2017 at 7:42am
PAY ATTENTION or you WILL be SMOKIN!!
CALL DUSTY!!
NOW!!


-------------
"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2017 at 10:00am
I gots the red wire on the single side on the black screw, the other 2 wires is both black. the only thing marked on the back of the switch is the common screw which is where I gots the red wire on according to the diagrams on the web. i'm just busy switching the black wires around and trying the switches each time I do. can this danged thing work with just one switch and i'll just puts a cover plate over the other? the light is between the 2 switches, i'm not sure which switch is #1 or #2. the one I call #2 is closest to the breaker panel, almost straight above it. so maybe that is the #1 switch?


Posted By: Dave in PA
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2017 at 10:05am
When you hooked the light up, how many wires were there in the box, NOT counting the wires for the light fixture itself?  And if there were more than 3 wires, white, black, bare, maybe red, what general direction did they enter the box?  Might give us a better idea.  And I REALLY hat to ask this, but is there light bulbs in the fixture?


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2017 at 10:14am
**slaps Dave for even thinking that I don't gots light bulbs in it** 2 wires in the box for the light fixture. both black. one had white lettering on it. the instructions for the light fixture said to hook one wire to the wire in the box that has the white stripe, I took it as the wire that had the white lettering? I don't remember which way the enter the box up there. I may take it back down and puts a single light fixture or a bulb socket on 2 wires up there while i'm trying to fix this.


Posted By: Dave in PA
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2017 at 10:16am
I just reread some of your past posts, and with your no contact tester test another HOT outlet somewhere to be sure it is working.  Did ya turn it on, and is there a battery in it?
Once you are sure that the tester works, test the black wire on the main switch area, the one above the panel box, you should have power, if not check the breakers!!!


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2017 at 10:37am
I gots power from the breaker box. I know that cuz I made a pot of coffee this morning. the wall plug in's is on the same breaker as light! everything in the kitchen is on the same breaker cept the electric stove cuz that's 220. and the testers don't work in the wall outlets either (both testers)


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2017 at 10:37am
i'm going back to bed!


Posted By: tadams(OH)
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 2:29pm
Going back to bed ain't going to fix anything.


Posted By: Dave in PA
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2017 at 3:36pm
Shameless, did ya get to looking into anything yet on the electric issue?  Keep us posted.


Posted By: Hubert (Ga)engine7
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2017 at 7:29pm
Shameless has probably given up and hired a real electrician to fix that little old light fixture but he doesn't want to admit defeat on here.

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Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2017 at 10:46pm
nope, I are still looking at the bare wires hanging outta the wall, will prolly work at it again tomarrow...maybe! the old lady.....oooops....I mean the loving wife said she was tired of this and that, and I finally told her I was tired of her being tired of stuff, cuz usually it all turns to chit! so i'm letting her suffer awhile longer!


Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2017 at 9:10am
Why didn't I just learn to,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Call and electrician.......






-------------
"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2017 at 4:15pm
licenced electritians here won't work on this, has the old wiring.


Posted By: Dave in PA
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2017 at 4:43pm
Do you mean knob and tube old?  If so, find another sparky! 


Posted By: Dave in PA
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2017 at 4:53pm
I will say to clear the record, IF you have the old knob and tube type wiring, that can, and might be a issue?  That didn't have a ground wire, it was only a 2 wire type thing.  I am not sure if the LED lights need a ground or not?  I have hooked some up without and no issue, just don't tell the inspector/home owner! Ya will need a good electrician to figure out that old stuff like that, for it can and will get ya back!


Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2017 at 5:18pm
Knob and Tube wiring is actually quite safe IF you don't over load it and the 'grounds' that we now have( the bare copper or green wires) do NOT carry power.
LEDs do NOT have to be grounded unlike some FL tube units( yeah, read the ballast for instructions...)
Knob and tube is supposed to be legal here in Ontario but INSURANCE companies force homeowners to upgrade. This can easily cost 5 to 10,000 Canucks.

Jay



-------------
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2017 at 10:56pm
what are you talking about knob and tube? the single wires with the ceramic insualtors?


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2017 at 10:58pm
mine are 2 wires inside a made of something sheave, consists of a white wire and a black wire, cept this one 3 way, then it's a red wire and a black wire along with another with 2 black wires.


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2017 at 11:06pm
I have florencent/LED/incandence (spelling), all in the house.


Posted By: Dave in PA
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2017 at 3:57am
Originally posted by shameless dude shameless dude wrote:

what are you talking about knob and tube? the single wires with the ceramic insualtors?
 
Yep


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2017 at 4:09am
mine are the step up from that. but still no ground wires running to each outlet or fixture boxes.



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