No till corn?
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Topic: No till corn?
Posted By: Sandknob
Subject: No till corn?
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2017 at 11:39am
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Has anyone had any luck with planting notill corn? I have planted beans this way before and had good luck. I was always told corn will take a slight yield hit though. From what I read if you can get it a really early shot of n to get it boosted it helps it tremendously. Something like 2x2 or starter. Looking to minimize my time during planting season and maximize my time with my family. We have talked about getting out completely, keeping our own ground, keeping ours and a couple close fields, and going no till. Any ideas on realistic time savings by going to no till? Thanks Adam |
Replies:
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2017 at 11:47am
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Its not as easy as it used to be with herbicide resistant weeds. Lots of marestail problems this year, once they are up you cant kill them. I like to till to start clean. Only way i would no till is into a cereal rye cover crop. Then you have the problems of not drying out in the spring enough to plant. Plus i have had many guys tell me the fall chisel plow gives a 20 bushel boost to corn. Everyone tills here, no till just isnt consistant enough. I plan to experiment with rye in the future. I also have been eyeing a versatile 850 and a 30ft cultivator. Large equipment has gotten pretty cheap. |
Posted By: Sandknob
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2017 at 11:53am
| You mentioned cereal rye. If your interested in some seed I have about 60 bushel of cereal rye seed to sell. |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2017 at 12:15pm
| Ill keep you in mind. If you happen to come this way let me know. May take some |
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2017 at 12:20pm
| just get bigger equipment. it don't hurt to have a 4x4 articulated tractor on 100 acres, it was cheaper than buying a 2-wh drive. then a bigger disk or FC. don't take long to do the field. then an 8-12 row planter, they are going cheap. as is bigger combines. that's how I kept my costs down and spent a lot less time in the fields so I could spend more time with the old lady....oooops...I mean the loving wife! also had more time for camping and just going out with friends! for the past 15 years small equipment has been bringing more money than big equipment on auctions! I've tried side by side field tests from til to no til for years, (9-10) and the til'd fields always yielded better on my soil. and a disking of field cultivating is cheaper weed control than chemicals! |
Posted By: Rick143
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2017 at 12:41pm
| It has been tried in my area but now most of the farmers at least go in with a disc to break the top up. Beyond that it depends on what was planted the year before. |
Posted By: caledonian
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2017 at 12:55pm
| I've had very good luck with no-till using trash wipers with a coulter. But yes resident weeds are becoming more of a problem. Added chemical costs verses reduced fuel & less wear and tear on machinery. Reduced time in field mean's more time with livestock or family. Everyone's operation is different. You will need to decide what work's best for you. |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2017 at 1:32pm
After about a decade of full tillage I built a three point sprayer and modified my planter for notill and notilled for about a decade.   By not having used glyphosate for its first decade I didn't develop any glyphosate resistant weeds. The plow coulters on the planter holding the thin ammonia knives are borrowed from my AC 2000 plow. The planter has Dawn Trash Whippers on each row unit to move bean straw or corn stover out of the way. These pictures show the rig as used notill. I applied 32% with the sprayer as the pump down the ammonia knives and side dressed later in the year. The corn may have suffered a little the first year or two of notill but it recovered after that. In 2007 I did an experiment where I shopped hard for a corn number that produced well with minimal nutrition, I think it was Crows 4221T. I spread 100 pounds of MAP giving 11 pounds of N, then I put down 60 pounds of N 2-1/4 inches from each row with the pictured planter and sprayer combination. I applied another 40 pounds of N by dribbling 32% every other row when the corn was about 4 feet tall. I had three varieties of seed in the field because the planter dropped an extra seed every 15 feet and I had to go to back up supplies. An Ottlie number seemed to get along with the treatment, but a Dyna-Gro number tipped back half the ear. It clearly didn't like the low N and high population (34,000 seeds per acre). The yield over the scale at the elevator was 173.2 bushels per acre. Not bad for 111 pounds of N. The corn stover left from that crop made planting beans difficult in 2008, the ground didn't warm up or dry until mid June. I had used glyphosate for a weed burndown in mid May and had CPS apply Prowl H2O a week later. The weeds were all still brown mid June. Mid July I found fresh lambs quarter about 4" tall, so I got out the sprayer and found some patches had drowned out or I had gone around them being wet so I ordered so 0.9 maturity bean seed from Albert Lea Seed House and filled in the blank spots. Figured the least I would get was ground cover. At harvest the field was clean everywhere, but when I hand picked the beans from those planted in mid July, the beans were hard but the size of BBs so probably didn't contribute to the crop delivered to the elevator. In 2009 I rented the place to a mostly corn on corn strip tiller and he has turned me a good profit every year. Our lease is 50/50 crop share. The strips warm up and dry and he hasn't had to plant very late because of cold wet ground. He did plant a little late this year wanting to avoid the corn getting bit by a late frost. Last I looked the field looked decent but not tall. I might to take a look this evening. Gerald J. |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2017 at 1:35pm
| Hard to compare our area to other parts of the country, but if it wasn't for no tilled corn around here, there wouldn't be any corn. We have to make every drop of water count, and most years, the moisture you lose by tillage will be the deal breaker for profitable corn. This year, however, even no till is not even cutting it. But, if farmers around here had tilled this spring, we'd be re-living the dust bowl. But instead, there is at least enough growth and residue to hold the soil. Darrel |
Posted By: skateboarder68
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2017 at 1:39pm
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I do some no-till corn into bean stubble. I have the local co-op spray a burndown a couple weeks before planting to keep weeds down. The ground has to be pretty smooth and I slow down to 4mph or so whereas I may run 5 planting corn in a worked field. ------------- Orange & Silver still earnin their keep on the farm: R62, Series IV D17 nf, 185, 6080, 6080 fwa, 220, 1968 D21, 7045, DT240. |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2017 at 5:18pm
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If you have a decent planter it all depending on the ground. Clay is iffy loam or sand is fine. If you don't have a Deere or Kinze forget it. On some of our lighter ground we have seen a gain. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: Daehler
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2017 at 5:57pm
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It depends on what soil type you have. Ive seen most types no tilled, vevy heavy clays and gimbo type soils are best to be worked. Most 1980 and newer planters shoild no till fine, just depends on their weight per row. It takes longer for ground being no tilled to warm up wich can be a set back, but in a dry year it helps. One big key is how to manage the weed resistance. Most around here burn downn a few weeks tp a week before planting, then come back with a second pass when its emerged. ------------- 8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more! "IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!" |
Posted By: Sandknob
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2017 at 6:22pm
| It's a deere 7000 eight row. |
Posted By: Plowking77
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2017 at 8:51pm
| We've been no-tilling for 20+ years here in NW Ohio an I think the yields r better,, you don't have the compaction like we use to when we would work it twice an then plant.. compaction kills you in r clay!! |
Posted By: AC7060IL
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2017 at 9:24pm
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Please try being rid of the no-til coulter on your planter. It's over-kill in most any soil classification (sand, silt, & clay). It can hair-pin crop residue directly into seed furrow, dig up excessively mucky soil that wraps up on gauge wheels which offsets proper seeding depth, & mixes dry soil from surface directly into the seed furrow. Properly shimmed seed furrow opener disks will cut perfect furrows in even the worst conditions. Adjustable Residue managers are a must. In addition, the floating residue depth wheels are also an excellent investment which keeps the residue fingers from over gouging too much soil. |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2017 at 9:24pm
You have the right planter atleast. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Sandknob wrote:Posted By: Pete from IL
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2017 at 10:15pm
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This year my no til corn looks the best and came up better than what was tilled. I also agree with ac7060 that you don't need the no til coulters. I have a 7000 Deere 12 row 30 " with the heavy duty down pressure springs and it puts the corn in hard ground very well. In the past yields have been comparable with no til, maybe slightly lower sometimes. Pete
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Posted By: GM Guy
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2017 at 11:22pm
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We hire a guy with a 8000 series white 16 row no-till planter, and it does a great job. We mudded the first 50 acres in and it doesnt look fantastic, but no matter the brand of planter you will regret mudding in corn. The wheat got hailed out, and he pulled right into still green standing wheat and planted corn, the chemical outfit came and hit the wheat with roundup the next day after planting to finish it and whatever growing weeds off. The stand looks awesome, and I am pretty happy with how things are looking on that field. Time will tell in the next 2 weeks, as we are not scheduled to get much if any rain. IMO planting and spraying are not that fun, and there are alot of guys with big equipment happy to do a little custom work. IMO I would focus on harvest, that is where the fun is at. IMO either get a nice 12 row 6000 or 8000 series white or case IH 800 series or newer (preferably 1200 series and newer) and DIY, or hire it out. The white meter is awesome, and the row unit is very good, and the CIH meter is good and the row unit is awesome. Essentially the two best planters on the market in stock form are Red, especially for no-till. only the extremely Deere loyal run green planters out here, lots of CIH planters sold in our immediate area, many to farms that are otherwise green. Saw a 8370R pulling a 24 row central fill CIH planter just a few weeks ago putting in sunflowers. ------------- Gleaner: the properly engineered and built combine. If you need parts for your Gleaner, we are parting out A's through L2's, so we may be able to help. |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2017 at 5:34am
Here everyone runs Deere planters regardless of the tractor pulling it. Seems like lots of 1760 planters have showed in the last few years. Only guys that run red are a couple die hard CIH guys the last White disappeared two years ago. A few Monosem's for veggies around. Buddy had a 800 that he had to fill the insecticide boxes with lime to get enough weight in it to no till with they are that much lighter than Deere. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: Dans 7080
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2017 at 5:55am
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I'll second the white planter. Very accurate and seed size doesn't affect them. I run a 6-30 6100 and wouldn't trade it for anything. There are a lot of kinze and Deere around here but still quite a few whites. ------------- When someone tells you Nothings Impossible, Tell them to slam a revolving door |
Posted By: 1terrygladys
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2017 at 8:20am
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Almost every acre of corn planted around SW Iowa is no-till. I planted no till for many years before retiring from farming in 2004 for the ministry. It not only works, but it also gives the best yields in our area. As I started using no till, I noticed the organic matter in my soil increasing with every soil test. And with no till in dry years, you can always put the seed in moisture (not so if you've tilled it). In addition, no till helps control soil erosion. As they used to say in the TV commercial: try it, you'll like it! Terry ------------- WD-45, WD, Unstyled WC, SC Disk, JD 4430D, JD 4010D, JD B, Iowa pastor & disciple of Jesus Christ |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2017 at 9:15am
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The so called wide wavy front coulter for no till is a bad idea. If the soil is a bit damp and with clay it can turn into a stomping packing wheel filled with soil and not benefit the soil or the planting process at all. The flat coulter I used made a good slot for 32% when planting corn and cut the stover whether planting corn or beans so the Trash Whippers were good and moving stover away from the opener disks and the combination prevented hairpinning of the stover by the opening disks. A combination suggested by Jim at Dawn at more than one farm show. Gerald J. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2017 at 9:27am
My Deere 8 row I got 3 years ago came with a set of spring tines in front of the opener. Made a great trash rake What the heck conditions would that be for? About the only thing I can think of is some sort of crust it would break up some...My old 4 row had the wavy coulters. We used it for over 20 years. I had no idea it was so bad!
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Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2017 at 3:26pm
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The first owner of my 7000 (then 4 row wide) added a row of spring tooth harrow on the front of the frame. The up thrust lifted the planter enough the drive tire slid so the dealer added a drive chain to the other side. The tires still tended to slip and to plant irregularly and thinner than set. When I bought (from the second owner) at a consignment auction the spring tooth assembly was with it but not mounted. I left it and it got sold the next consignment auction for a few bucks. I converted it to 30" rows, added the Trash Whippers and the flat coulters and it planted no till fine for me. I took off one of the drive chains to save work on moving the drive wheels. Gerald J. |
Posted By: jiminnd
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2017 at 8:31pm
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Makes a big difference what your soil is, we have 2 large farmers here who have no-til for 40 years, must work as they still do it. ------------- 1945 C, 1949 WF and WD, 1981 185, 1982 8030, unknown D14(nonrunner) |
Posted By: Eddie
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2017 at 9:06pm
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Nobody tills in my part of the country. Corn, soybeans or cotton!!! ------------- Allis Chalmers 6060 10' Howse Rotary Cutter 5' Tiller 5' Box Blade 4' Aerator Ferris Zero Turn Mower W/10' fold up sprayer John Deere 455 Lawn Tractor John Deere 955 w/loader & 60" belly mower |
Posted By: charlesbendal
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2017 at 6:53am
| We have been trying some no till for 3 years now so far we like it and it has been some of our top yielding corn and beans every year. We are using a corn bean rotation on everything we no till. I'm in North West Pennsylvania. The first year we planted corn no till we only had half a stand which was the planters fault it still way out yielded our corn across the road which was also ours planted the next day with a perfect stand |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2017 at 7:00am
Interesting! My 4 row 7000 had drive mechanisms on both tires....I thought that was standard. It is set up so that it ratchets if one tire is moving faster than the other, like going around a sweeping curve or whatever, so that the out rows get a good population.
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Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2017 at 9:43am
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One drive chain has worked well on my 4 row narrow 7000. I found it was a bad idea planting on a curve like in a field corner. The row units move sideways until the trash whippers cut into the aluminum chain guard that I added to the drive wheel chain so the corn stalks didn't knock the chain off the sprockets. Much better to drive as far into the corner as possible, then lift the planter, back up, turn the tractor and planter and back into the corner, drop the planter and leave the corner driving straight. Then the combine going the opposite direction can drive straight into the corn (to the fence) then probably back up and move over a combine width and cut the outer rows cross the rows, then back up and turn to run down the rows normally, no harvesting going around the curve. The two ratchet drives do take care of the two wheels turning different speeds on straight (different inflation) or corners whether planting or not. Gerald J. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2017 at 10:11am
| That's a valid point about field corners. 4 rows I usually turned the corner, 8 rows I do not. Guy just has to make a judgment call there. But I have lots of fields with a "curvy" end that you'd not practically plant in a straight line. |
Posted By: Sandknob
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2017 at 11:48am
| Soil is anywhere from sandy knobs (hence my screen name) to clay, to black dirt. Mostly sandy loam though. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2017 at 2:54pm
| Maybe I am just seeing things but around here the farms are leaving a wider edge of field margin, big enough to run a 15' batwing rotary thru, seems they no longer plant every available foot. New combines seem a bit tender if get into vegetation and planter cannot handle the harsh corners on tighter or ever tightening rows, even with beans. |
Posted By: fourthgeneration
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2017 at 4:10pm
| We haven't tiilled since 2005. I have no plans to start doing it again. I only fill ruts in. We have a white 6000 interplant with no till coulters and spiked losing wheels with depth control bands. I did have some new tiled areas that we went over this spring. We had to replant the corn in those areas this spring. |
Posted By: 7060
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2017 at 5:42pm
| We have been no-tilling everything since the early 2000's. I think stand has more to do with yield than tillage, and sometimes one is better than the other. I have to disagree with notill being better for erosion in some cases. With a 2-3" rain the water will soak in worked ground, but notill the water will wash down the rows or run across the top making washboards. Anything more than that and they are both going to erode anyways, but I follow my farm plan. |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2017 at 7:04pm
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In my experience the stover left on the ground has been very effective in preventing erosion, even along the notill rows. Since 2009 my tenant has been strip tilling and still no erosion has happened. Though full tillage fields in the neighborhood have had huge gullies after heavy wet spring rains. Gerald J. |