No-Till and soil erosion
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Topic: No-Till and soil erosion
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Subject: No-Till and soil erosion
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2017 at 6:39pm
| Here in Southern Illinois we have received anywhere from 5" to 8"++ of rain the last 4 days!! Its sickening to see these freshly tilled fields with corn planted with TONS of valuable top soil totally washed towards the nearest creek or ditch!! I guess no-till would have helped but no one can foresee this much rain!! Ryan |
Replies:
Posted By: tomNE
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2017 at 7:21pm
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in nebraska, these rain evens are if they will come, it's when they will come. no till with covercrops works EVERYTIME! ------------- AC from the start of my families farming career till the end! |
Posted By: Dan Hauter
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2017 at 7:25pm
| As a farm owner I can assure you that only the most detached, city dwelling, "I inherited it. I'm cashing in on it." type of land owner isn't very upset today. Not to mention the actual farmer operating the farm! Nobody wants to see the amount of rain we've had here or the amount of soil erosion. But when the calendar says it's time to plant corn, hundreds or thousands of acres to go, and the inevitable competitive spirit between operators, it's next to impossible to hold off planting. And nobody has a crystal ball. History has taught us that we'd better plant when we can because we don't know when it's going to rain for 30 days and make us late. I shared your sadness as I drove by the fields this weekend and saw all the flooding and erosion! Yes, we can do better. The State of Illinois is essentially out of the business of funding soil conservation practices. The Federal process of applying for, waiting for, and MAYBE getting cost assistance on conservation practices is far from a good system. Minimum till and no till certainly have benefits and should be encouraged. However too many of our landlords are too many generations removed from the farm and only look for maximum income every year. And professional farm managers work for the landlord, not the farmer. Maximum cash rents are what the landlords and managers are looking for. Tenants don't know how long they'll have the farm so it's difficult to justify investing much in conservation practices. And that high cash rent has to be paid so it's too tempting to plant every acre on every tract of land in hopes of harvesting a maximum yield. "Gotta do it this year. No time to worry about the future. Might not have this farm next year." In my grandfather's day the landlord (Grandpa) once lived on and farmed the land so still had a real interest in good stewardship. And the tenant knew he had the farm for as long as he continued to do a good job so was willing to put in the time to farm it with good stewardship in mind. It was a partnership and the land benefitted. I remember driving with Grandpa out to the farm, observing everything, visiting with the tenant, having lunch, and making a day of it. Ah, those were the good ole times! |
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2017 at 7:32pm
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Dan Hauter wrote:Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2017 at 7:45pm
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Well said Ryan! Leaves me scratching my head when folks do plow days to recreationally create erosion and damage soil structure. Over a several year period I bet we don't plow over 3% of acres only time we do it is the bury something. We no till our lighter better drained ground yeilds are as good or better than when we did tillage ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2017 at 8:03pm
| We only have so much top soil and to see 16" of it washed towards the creek kinda makes you sick. Ryan |
Posted By: Auntwayne
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2017 at 9:22pm
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Ryan, You should have posted the video that you sent me of the "massive erosion" in progress.
------------- Dad always said," If you have one boy, you have a man. If you have two boys, you have two boys". "ALLIS EXPRESS" |
Posted By: Brian F(IL)
Date Posted: 01 May 2017 at 8:28am
| We got lucky up here in east-central Illinois. Only had 3" of rain. But, I 've got some bottom-ground that's next to a drainage district ditch that's overflowed and I have planted corn under 2 feet of water. |
Posted By: DennisA (IL)
Date Posted: 01 May 2017 at 11:20am
Sorry to hear you're scratching your head over me. We have a plow day every other year on non-erodible ground. Very rare we get any running water, I mean decades. ------------- Thanks & God Bless Dennis |
Posted By: ILGLEANER
Date Posted: 01 May 2017 at 2:27pm
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Funny how all these no till fields have gullies washed so deep they have to go around them and cut 1 field into 2 because of the wash outs. No till fields wash to. When it rains 7 inches in 3 days. Kill people with chemicals or have some erosion . Which is right in your mind ? To each there own. ------------- Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated. |
Posted By: ILGLEANER
Date Posted: 01 May 2017 at 2:28pm
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And if you have 16" of top soil, you can loose 10" and still have more then we started with thousands of years ago.😄😄😄 ------------- Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated. |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 01 May 2017 at 3:04pm
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we plow to prevent erosion by maintaining our terraces. we dont have flat ground or 16 inches of topsoil! ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: skateboarder68
Date Posted: 01 May 2017 at 3:55pm
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Its too much rain period! I've yet to meet a farmer who doesn't feel sick when heavy rains wash their soil away. No one size fits all, I have done no-till past years and it was all well and good, going to no till beans into corn stalks this year but worked the ground going to corn cause it was spring anhydrous and needed leveled out. Have a neighbor who has no-tilled for 25 years and he has horrible gullies cause he never ever gets a dozer in to fix them or reshape waterways, Nothing. We have had a few 7 inch rains in 25 years cause erosion on ground with any slope to it. I have an 80 acre field I farm I could get over in half the time if I would farm it all north and south like they did 50 years ago instead of this way then that way and so on. ------------- Orange & Silver still earnin their keep on the farm: R62, Series IV D17 nf, 185, 6080, 6080 fwa, 220, 1968 D21, 7045, DT240. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 01 May 2017 at 4:05pm
x2!
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Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 01 May 2017 at 4:07pm
Yep, there will always be a little erosion, but maintaining terraces helps a ton! I've seen steep fields in west central OK that literally looked like a giant staircase. The guy's JD 6600 I was combining with struggled to climb the hill at times (Think the drive belt was slipping), but the field never washes out!
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Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 01 May 2017 at 7:14pm
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Posted By: wekracer
Date Posted: 01 May 2017 at 8:24pm
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Saw a picture on the news today where the gasconade river took the fresh asfalt overlay off the bridge east of Linn mo. We got 6 1/2 inches in 4 hours. I don't care how you farm nothing stands up to that power. Today I Checked 20 acres of corn that was in the low bottom planted 3 weeks ago and it doesn't look bad. It was chisel plowed in march and had 6' of current offer it Saturday. Worst problem is silt deposits From no till hill farmers up stream. Lol. Had to throw that in. I was surprised. I expected to see it all washed away but given the circumstances I won't complain. I know that no till works good in some areas but it doesn't work in our clay bottoms. If you don't open the ground up it will never dry out enough to plant. You do what works where your at. |
Posted By: tomNE
Date Posted: 01 May 2017 at 8:27pm
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I been no tilling since 1992. I'm literately in shock with some of the comments. I added covercrops about 10yrs ago. I don't allow any of my topsoil to leave my farm and have installed silt dams to heal any ditches. I could call out lots of false statements in this thread but it would only lead to arguements. My neighbors who lose tons of topsoil every year call me "Lucky". When i rented out part of my farm last summer, one of the stipulations was if i catch any of my topsoil leaving my farm, the lease is terminated. You can't believe the excuses i heard. No excuses excepted. Guy who rented it is proly 35yrs old and i totally expect him to still be farming my ground in 40yrs, long after i'm dead and gone! ------------- AC from the start of my families farming career till the end! |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 01 May 2017 at 8:41pm
| Wow that's putting it out there, with this much rain that fast it's gonna erode some, that's up to Mother Nature, we have to deal with it,, happens all the time any more |
Posted By: ac fleet
Date Posted: 01 May 2017 at 9:00pm
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No till means MAJOR soil loss and no yield!---We almost lost 1 farm because of a no-till renter!--- Third year he was gone because he couldnt get and crop yield.---we then deep rip and now don't have but very little run-off. thanks; ac fleet |
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 01 May 2017 at 9:16pm
| Thats because where you farm ac fleet you have 45 3/4" of top soil. On average that is of course. Ryan |
Posted By: Dgrader
Date Posted: 02 May 2017 at 5:09am
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If you're a steward of the land, you manage the wash areas whether you notill or not. Notill doesn't work everywhere. My problem with notill is spray, spray and spray for weed control. And people wonder why they have resistant weeds. ------------- Ya cain't fix stupid. |
Posted By: truckerfarmer
Date Posted: 02 May 2017 at 6:57am
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Well said Dgrader. ------------- Looking at the past to see the future. '53 WD, '53 WD45, WD snap coupler field cultivator, #53 plow,'53 HD5B dozer Duct tape.... Can't fix stupidity. But will muffle the sound of it! |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 02 May 2017 at 7:31am
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From what I see notill only gives you one "extra" spray. You spray once preplant to kill the field versus tilling a couple times. If your growing soybeans, you still spray them 1-2 times and you still spray your pre-emerge on corn. If your worried about chemicals stop spraying your beans and get out the rotary hoe again. Part of the resistance problem id guys starting thinking roundup was the answer. It's not. It's just another chemical you can choose form in your program. You only get resistant weeds when you don't kill them. |
Posted By: ILGLEANER
Date Posted: 02 May 2017 at 7:42am
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The problem in 98% of Nebraska, is it is to much slope to farm. Not everyone farms on mountains like Nebraska. No till was big around here 20 years ago when the government was pushing there agenda. It is less than 2% l would guess. You lose yield in corn, and you can't control weeds in beans, it's that simple. I would not ill my beans if l could, but the weeds would take you, or you have an 80 an acre chemical bill. And spray in the fall. To each there own. If you have to not ill to hold your soil. Your ground should be in set aside. ------------- Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 02 May 2017 at 7:45am
A normal year for me is 55 to 65 bu/acre for beans. This year again looks like a late planting season. Some mudded corn in already or have sandy ground planted but ground like mine just sits and waits. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: festus51
Date Posted: 03 May 2017 at 4:50pm
| Cal KS as soon as I read your post I knew you were from KS. I'm at Osage City I can not loose 6" of top soil yet alone 10-16". |