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Pertronix Ignition Quit Again

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Topic: Pertronix Ignition Quit Again
Posted By: 79fordblake
Subject: Pertronix Ignition Quit Again
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 5:14pm
I've had nothing but trouble with my electronic ignition and I can't figure out the problem. Today at plow day my ignition burned out again!! This is the 3rd time. Thank goodness I pack my points with me. I have the correct ohm coil, 12v system, charging at 14v with no spikes that I can tell. I have copper core wires still is that burning them up or am I just having bad luck? Also running 295 plugs if that matters.



Replies:
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 5:22pm
Man I feel for you, though 3 of them ??Have  to admit if I used my D-14s more, I'd toss electronic ignitions in them , but nothing 'off the shelf'. I designed/built them 30-35 years ago and figured out how to bullet proof them. To me it's really sad the commercial ones can and do fail as electronic 'bits nd pieces' are a lot cheaper today than 3 decades ago.

Hopefully you'll stick with good old points for now ??

Jay



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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water


Posted By: cwhit
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 6:33pm
Pertronix has a hotline. I,ve used them before. They are VERY helpful. Tech person will walk you through ways to check your system.


Posted By: 79fordblake
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 6:45pm
I've already did that with the last 2. I've turned 2 in on warranty and they covered it. I don't understand what is going on unless it's just junk parts.


Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 7:30pm
You must be getting the lemons or there's something that your not finding. I've put them in everything I've owned with points for more than 20 years and not once had any problem. I've used them with solid copper wires and sometimes the coil that was already on the tractor.

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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY


Posted By: DennisA (IL)
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 7:35pm
I believe you're not supposed to use solid copper spark plug wires.
Hope I have better luck I just bought four of them.

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Thanks & God Bless

Dennis


Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 8:13pm
Call Steve at B & B custom circuits. There must be something like a bad crimp on the cables to the key switch maybe. SteveNJ is his handle in here he knows these electronic systems as well as anyone else.


Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 8:27pm
I have stock 6 volt system on my WD45 and stock points as well. I use Mallory 8mm wires for the spark plugs. Works awesome. Starts in any temp with no block heater. Make up your own so length is correct. Very neat application.


Posted By: ac fleet
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 8:44pm
Transistor ign. really don't work very good on most tractors.---It's designed for v-8 race cars.----UNLESS you make your own for YOUR application!---Not hard to make!---ME,----I stick to good ole' points , LOTS less trouble!!!! lol!!! thanks; ac fleet


Posted By: orange
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 9:01pm
    My question on pertronix is my coil runs so hot can't hold onto it. Seems to work ok is that normal? I have pertronix wires ,coil and the ign. system. checked voltage.   


                                 thanks Terry


Posted By: Bill_MN
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 9:22pm
Should use spiral core wires with electronic ignition, only magnetos have to have copper core. Are you turning the engine off with the key or a kill switch? Or otherwise leaving the key on with the engine off? The label on the module under the cap is supposed to burn off if the module overheats and burns out. Leaving the key on with engine off is the main culprit of this. Check all your wires, make sure connections and grounds are solid.


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1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow


Posted By: 79fordblake
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 9:25pm
I use to always say stay with points but after trying the electronic ignition there is a difference in the way it runs. I just gotta figure out why they keep burning up.
When I went to start it this morning to unload for plow day it cranked right up as usual. Let it run to warm up and it quit and wouldn't restart. Put my points back in and it fired up. Steve rebuilt my distributor.


Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 9:28pm
12 volt system needs a 3 ohms coil. If the coil is getting hot I would suspect that the coil is either not 3 ohms or there is a bad wire somewhere in the circuit or the key switch is flaky and needs to be replaced. I had a pertronix module burn out because of a bad key switch. The other question is are you positive or negative ground? The electronics in the negative ground system are less likely to burn out just the nature of the circuit in the two systems.


Posted By: 79fordblake
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 9:31pm
Negative ground. All wiring and ignition switch are 3yrs old. Coil is correct ohm I checked it. What should I do to see if something is going on with ignition switch?


Posted By: TREVMAN
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2017 at 2:41am
I feel for you, but I dont know what to say. Ive converted about 15 engines I think, never had any issues, and some of the engines converted never ran so good. Hope you figure it out, Trev.


Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2017 at 10:53am
We sell the "Ignitor" module kit, and that seems to work fine with most Solid Core wires, but here's the reason for some Ignitior units burning out. Leakage. Leakage from the spark plug wires themselves. Some say its from EMI blowing out the hall effect module. Its not. And, its greater when equipped with a higher volt coil. As spark plug wires "age" they can start leaking current out of them. This happens to the best plug wires out there on the market. Doesn't matter. Eventually, they fail. This current can actually "spike" the E.I. module taking it out. The reason is the current when leaked can find a ground path which causes a large voltage spike which can take out the module. Pertronix prefer's you not to use solid core wires because some of the failures are from "worn or aged" solid core spark plug wires from their testing, especially if you are using the "Ignitor II". That unit is quite a bit more sensitive and that should have suppression wires used with it always! As Chuck mentioned, Pertronix's tech line is great!

My suggestion is to inspect the spark plug wires carefully for any breaks in the jacket where current could expose itself causing the problem. I'm thinking you have a leak issue with the wires. They're 3 years old now, and being out in the elements on a Tractor increase the age two fold. Sun, moisture, heat, etc. I would either replace the spark plug wires with a new set of solid core wires or being its a Distributor fired unit, install a set of suppression wires to cut down or eliminate the spikes that could occur. This may eliminate your E.I. module issues all together. After all, those things aren't cheap, but they do last a looong time! The unit in my 6V model B is going on 18 years old now. I build the suppression style wire sets as well as the solid core versions. One other suggestion I would like to add is if you have a Distributor fired Tractor and the Spark Plug side of the wires does not have a boot, I suggest sliding boots over the plugs to keep any current from spiking off the plug to ground causing a high voltage spike. This also insures the plug terminal is covered and insulated. Its nice to have the OEM look, but its better to have the reliability! Your call there.....
Steve@B&B


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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife


Posted By: 79fordblake
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2017 at 11:46am
Steve, the spark plug wires are probably only a year old and I bought them from you, you also rebuilt my distributor. I checked my coil again and it is 3.6ohm. Just to give it a shot how much are the suppression wires you make?


Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2017 at 8:32pm
I'll build a suppression set of wires for ya no charge Blake. Try em' out and see if it eliminates the problem. What model Tractor do you have? Was that a WD45? I don't remember... BTW, the ohm reading is a tick on the high side.  Should be 2.7-3.3.
Steve


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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife


Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2017 at 9:27pm
Also: 3.2 ohms doesn't necessarily mean the coil is good. Coils can look good when cold and short out between windings when hot.


Posted By: 79fordblake
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2017 at 3:51am
Yes it's a WD45. The Pertronix instructions say 3ohm or more for 4 cylinder. The coil is only a couple months old. The tractor ran good the rest of the day. All I did was put points back in.


Posted By: Bill_MN
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2017 at 7:10pm
If you think your EI module is bad, which it certainly seems that way since it ran good with points, you best replace that before trying Steve's wires or anything else- otherwise you're just masking the effect of the new part. If the module is bad, it's bad and anything you try to do will seem as if it doesn't work. I really think it's your key/shutoff switch given the age of your wires and coil.

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1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow


Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2017 at 9:54pm
my one customer has the pertronics on his v4 wisconsins on his target concrete saws  they have copper wires and run hard many hours per day in all kinds of weather without ignition problems .    so this thread has really got me interested as to the problem because i just biult him anew engine and it has new copper wires and i was going to use the distrubutor with the pertronics out of the one i am replaceing


Posted By: 79fordblake
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 4:00am
I didn't know wiring and a key switch would be considered old after 3 years? Heck the wiring was 30yrs old before I replaced it all. I have to send the module off Pertronix wants to look at it. Not sure yet but I may just forget about the electronic ignition. 3 replacements in about a year is enough.


Posted By: TimNearFortWorth
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 4:19am
Three modules in less than a month (Petronix) for me was enough, went back to points.


Posted By: 79fordblake
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 4:46am
I'll have to take a look at my switch this weekend and see about replacing it I guess.


Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 6:31am
The problem with the key switch is there are just a lot of junk ones sold out of china. I think the contacts are made for AC not DC. Big difference in cost of the contact pad material because of how DC wants to make a arc. I have had to toss a key switch which was only 6 months old because it would drop the voltage going across it and under voltage the pertronix kit. If the spade terminal on the switch is a little loose you can get voltage spikes ad it wiggles that cause trouble. I miss the old switches that had a screw holding the wire.


Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 10:22am
While you're at it, check your ground connections. A bad ground could cause more problems than a bad ignition switch.


Posted By: Roscoe62
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 2:28pm

Steve at B&B has the best ignition switches I have seen.  Others sell them too, probably.

Roscoe


Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2017 at 5:40pm
Both of my gas tractors have both a Pertronix and a heavy duty 75 amp push pull toggle switch. The Oliver has had the same Pertronix for 14 years, the CA for 20 years. All I used for wires were a good quality suppression wire set for a 4 cyl car. Farm store cheap wires aren't worth paying money for. If you've been using good wires and Pertronix's coil, I'd be wondering if your ignition switch is not making good contact or your charging system is spiking the system.
http://www.vehiclesafetysupply.com/pollak-35-306-extra-heavy-duty-push-pull-switches-g-14130.html?cPath=815" rel="nofollow - Pollak Switch

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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford


Posted By: 79fordblake
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2017 at 3:19pm
I have a switch and wires on the way from Steve. I ended up not messing with it this weekend. Maybe next week.


Posted By: 79fordblake
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 9:07pm
I forgot to update this. Pertronix sent a new kit. I checked all wires and grounds. Got a good switch and plug wires from Steve. Not even a month of use and it burned out again today while mowing!!!!


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 11:20pm
Wow Blake! It would seem that there must be something with your tractor that causes this.What that is???? I don't have a clue. Guy hates to replace everything starting over but there must be some component responsible for this.


Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 11:32pm
Does your 45 have the ground wire from the switch box to the frame? It needs it if it doesn't. Do you have a one wire alt. on it? Try putting a ground wire from the alt to the frame. I agree with others that it seems like a ground problem top me.


Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 5:51am
Did you change the coil?


Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 7:30am
It sure sounds like a 'random current spike', sigh...
Those ignition units SHOULD be protected from that, though they aren't. Cost is less than a buck and I don't understand WHY Petronix doesn't do it.
The alternator could(is ?)  be creating the spike. Try adding a capacitor( points condensor) on the +12 output to gnd. It might 'filter' the spike IF that's where it's coming from...

Jay



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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water


Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 7:36am

Jay, what about a clamping diode?



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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford


Posted By: 79fordblake
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 7:38am
Yep I already have those two ground wires. Yes its a one wire alternator. I had been mowing about a hour. Started to miss a little then got really bad and throwing flames out the muffler and quit. Tried to start it nothing. Let it set awhile nothing. Walked to house to get a few tools and the points. Fired right up after putting them back in.


Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 7:52am
That sounds like my d15. I ended up just rebuilding the distrubitor with new sleeves and fixed the springs and the likes. In the end I got the points out and replace them about twice a year. I can't figure out what the issue is on my d15 but my d17 has had a pertronix kit for about 5 years and works great. No idea why.


Posted By: 79fordblake
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 8:33am
Dan this is on my fresh engine new and rebuilt everything.
For the heck of it I reinstalled the Pertronix this morning to make sure it was dead. Nope no start. Put points back in again and fired right up.
Would a inline fuse cause this problem? I have a fuse from battery to switch. I'm running 295 Autolites do I need different plugs? I'm at a loss. Spent quite a bit of money changing stuff and same problem.


Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 8:57am
Originally posted by Brian Jasper co. Ia Brian Jasper co. Ia wrote:

Jay, what about a clamping diode?
A clamping diode would burn out too unless it was current limited. A limiting resistor would essentially take away any clamping properties. A varistor might work if it is close enough to the Pertronix that the feed wire would have a bit of resistance itself. You don't know what your peak voltages are unless you have a meter with a peak/hold function. In my distant past at work I had a high quality Fluke that did this. It costs a pretty penny. To be honest I'd replace the alternator. If there are any over voltages, the alternator would be the source.
 
ETA: Are you taking the voltage for the ignition switch from inside the box before your ammeter? If so, move this wire to the battery.  Fuse this wire right after the battery. The battery will act as a large voltage dump, which might cut down on your spikes.
 


Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 4:41pm
found this...somewhere on the web...
Another possible cause for a problem with an Ignitor is if there is a bad ground (earth) between the breaker plate on which the module mounts in the distributor and battery negative (or battery positive in a positive earth system).  With a digital ohmmeter  set on its most sensitive scale, measure the resistance between the Ignitor mount plate and the battery negative post on a negative ground system or the battery positive post on a positive ground system .  Measure to the battery post itself, not the connector on the ground cable.  If it is 0.2 ohms or more, you have a bad ground.  Check for corrosion at the connections of the ground strap between the breaker plate and the distributor housing, and also at the battery itself or where the negative battery cable attaches to the block.  Another possible resistance source is the distributor hold-down clamp which is the electrical connection between the distributor and block or intake manifold.  If engine parts have recently been painted there may not be a good ground.  There is typically a small ground strap between the points plate and the distributor housing.  Be sure that is attached securely and free of corrosion at the contact areas.  0.2 ohms may sound like a negligible amount of resistance, and in a steady state circuit it often is.  But in an ignition circuit where the current is switched on and off many times a second, the transient effects of the 0.2 ohms are significant and can prevent an Ignitor from firing normally.  As the chief engineer at PerTronix says, "If you don't have a good ground, you might as well go in and watch television."

I'm NOT saying this is why it's ahppening, just something else to look at, in case you haven't already.
I had a quick look at PerTronix website,,they say 8-16 volts... so I'd add 18 volt zener/resistor or transzorbs or varistors to quelch the EMI. It would be 'interesting' to disconnect the alternator wiring and run the tractor for 2-3 hours and see what happens......

Jay
BTW I have no odea HOW to get 'regular' font back......


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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water


Posted By: BrianC
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 4:48pm
I remember what a seasoned tractor mechanic told me about the Pertronix and the Ford N series. He said he had many ("100%") failures with the front mounted distributor, but very few with the side mounted distributor. He had no answer as to why.

I would replace the alternator at this point. Relatively cheap to do. If that doesn't fix it, you have a backup alternator.

When electronics won't work right, poor grounding is the usual suspect. I might be tempted to run a ground wire to the distributor itself. Historically, the distributor replaced the magneto, my C magneto has a gasket (= an insulator) between the mag and mounting flange. Wonder if the battery powered distributor unit has that gasket. Does a Pertronix install require the distributor to be grounded well? Just speculating.

Good luck, let us know what it is when you figure it out.


Posted By: BrianC
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 5:00pm
Hey look at that, what Jay said.


Posted By: 79fordblake
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 9:13pm
I really doubt Pertronix will replace it again. Not sure I even want one anymore. I'll try the things y'all said but without another module I won't know if it helped.


Posted By: Bill_MN
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 9:55pm
Are you using solid core plug wires or modern carbon spiral wound wires? The conventional wisdom is you NEED solid core on old tractors, this is only true with magnetos and to a lesser extent with distributor. With the EI you should use carbon core suppression wires and resistor spark plugs. Be absolutely certain the resistance on your coil is correct also, I would highly recommend a matching Pertronix Flame Thrower. A 4 cylinder engine with 12V needs 3.0 ohm, 6V needs 1.5 ohm. I've run a 6V and now a 12V ignitor on my WD with all of the above and Flame Thrower plug wires and never had a single problem.


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1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow


Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2017 at 4:34am
You have the ohms backward, Bill.


Posted By: Bill_MN
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2017 at 3:20pm
Agh, you're right Doug. Reading directly from the chart as I type but sometimes me brain doesn't listen too good


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1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow


Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2017 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by Bill_MN Bill_MN wrote:

Agh, you're right Doug. Reading directly from the chart as I type but sometimes me brain doesn't listen too good
I asked if the coil was replaced. No reply. A coil can ohm good until it heats up or may otherwise have an intermittent short.  New, less than a year old, works fine otherwise... none of these mean it's a good coil. The problem could be one of many things.  Unless you have a peak hold meter or an oscilloscope, you won't see those peaks. Sometimes the problem rears its head when things get hot. My problems usually reared their heads because of the cold. At least the equipment I had was usually small enough that I could put it in the freezer for a couple of hours. Sometimes you can CAREFULLY warm up a coil with a torch, held a long ways away from the coil. The cheap/easy fix is to replace the alternator with a used 3-wire from a junkyard, a good used coil (Beware, some automotive "12 volt" coils were really 6 volt coils fed with resistance wire), and hook the ignition switch directly to the battery. To replace the Pertronix now would be dooming the unit to the trash can.
 
ETA: Go to a junkyard and pull a 3-wire of the same frame size you have now. I'd shoot for a CS121 or CS130. Stick with an early 80s GM that does not have a 130D alternator. Pull the connector too, cutting the wires a good 6 inches from the connector. Wire this alternator as a one-wire, but remember which wire is the "L" terminal. Start the tractor, rev it a little, then touch this "L" wire to that BAT terminal on the alternator. The alternator should start charging and will keep charging after you remove this wire. While at the junkyard, find a good old real 12 volt coil and replace yours. Run it a few weeks like this, remembering to touch the "L" wire after you start the tractor. If everything keeps working, check back for instructions on how to wire that "L" terminal. It's not that hard.
 
 
 


Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2017 at 4:10pm
Blake I don't know what to tell you. On my d15 I just gave up and run points. For some reason my points don't last that well either but I can't figure out what is wrong. It is a complete rebuild and I have gone so far as to swap most of the part with my d17 that the pertronix kit works perfectly in. The nearest I can figure I have a bad wire crimp end somewhere on my d15 but I can't find it and a couple sets of points a year seems cheap right now. Just got bigger problems to deal with here.


Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 10:08am
There are other ways to get the benefits of electronic ignition. A Ford TFI module can be triggered off points, you just need the module mounted to a good heatsink. Mid 90's F series remote mounted them remotely on a nice aluminum heatsink. It works like Dave Kirk's Point Saver for Kohler and Onan engines. Only drawback is the rubbing block will wear eventually requiring periodic timing checks, but the higher spark energy potential is still there.

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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford


Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 11:37am
Originally posted by Brian Jasper co. Ia Brian Jasper co. Ia wrote:

There are other ways to get the benefits of electronic ignition. A Ford TFI module can be triggered off points, you just need the module mounted to a good heatsink. Mid 90's F series remote mounted them remotely on a nice aluminum heatsink. It works like Dave Kirk's Point Saver for Kohler and Onan engines. Only drawback is the rubbing block will wear eventually requiring periodic timing checks, but the higher spark energy potential is still there.
I had one of these 40+ years ago. It did as you said, the points did not pass any current. It did save on points, but I don't think it gave much boost to the voltage. I sold it to another guy in my unit and it burned out within a month, after I ran it for two years. At least it had a bypass switch and he wasn't left stranded.
 
 


Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 9:07pm
Could possibly be as simple as a bad ground cable off the Battery or bad ground connection causing a spike and taking out the module. Sometimes its the stupidest thing...
Steve@B&B


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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife


Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 9:53pm
Yup Steve, but this is one case where you can't replace one item at a time. The cost is too high if you blow out three modules before you find the problem.


Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2017 at 6:40am
You can read of these same Pentronix issues elsewhere, sounds like a person needs an electronics degree to keep them going?? No thanks,  The issue with points is junk imported replacement parts, I circumvent that by purchasing genuine N.O.S Delco Remy points and condensers. There is a boat load of that stuff still around and they are simple,, like me.


Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2017 at 9:47am
Nothin' wrong with simple Butch ole' buddy......!   Thumbs Up       You're absolutely right Doug. It can get expensive trying to figure out problems. Been doin' that for 50 years so I'm well aware of that....  LOL!


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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife


Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2017 at 10:09am
Back in my gainfully employed days troubleshooting wasn't so costly. I had the correct instruments, for the most part. Sometimes I'd be thrown a curve. RF problems can be nasty hard to troubleshoot. Peak voltages and static can be buggers too. If you don't have the instruments the best you can do is find old used parts and swap them around.


Posted By: JimD
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2017 at 10:23am
On my D15 II, I was popping the pertronix units.  Finally realized it was happening after charging the battery since it had a poor battery.  (I have way too many things needing batteries here!)  Anyway, I made sure to disconnect charger before trying to start, and it cleared it up.  The one of the boys needed to use the tractor and came in and told me it wouldn't start.  Yep, charger was still hooked up.  Put points back in and never had a problem again.

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Owner of http://www.OKtractor.com" rel="nofollow - OKtractor.com PM for an instant response on parts. Open M-F 9-6 Central.

We have new and used parts. 877-378-6543


Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2017 at 10:33am
Jim, the new "smart chargers" won't do that. Some of those old chargers were designed for 110 volts, yet many power companies deliver almost 130 volts to a customer now. Check the voltage of your charger. If it's cranking out much more than 14.7 volts I'd give it the heave-ho. I'd avoid turning on the ignition or cranking the engine while the charger is on in any event.


Posted By: JimD
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2017 at 4:15pm
That charger is long go.  Afore mentioned son left it plugged in.  In the rain.  On the floor of the barn.  Where the river comes through when it rains.  The replacement still has the price tag on it.  It so he can buy it when it happens again.....



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Owner of http://www.OKtractor.com" rel="nofollow - OKtractor.com PM for an instant response on parts. Open M-F 9-6 Central.

We have new and used parts. 877-378-6543


Posted By: Hubert (Ga)engine7
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2017 at 6:29pm
Having the same problem with my D15. Steve in NJ suggested several things to check. Put the old points and condenser back in and it ran great. Thanks, Steve! I will be getting some good points from you soon.

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Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.


Posted By: 79fordblake
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2017 at 4:58pm
I haven't looked into this more yet. But on the electrical system on this tractor nothing is old. Coil has been replaced 3 times. No change. I have no problem with the tractor running on points and it never quits or starts to run bad so I doubt its a coil problem. I'll have to check my grounds again though. Just haven't had time or wanted to mess with it lately. I bought a new alternator but haven't put it on. I've always used 295 plugs. Whats equal to that in a resistor plug? I have suppression wires(brand new from Steve).


Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2017 at 9:20pm
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the resistor version is a 303.

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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford


Posted By: 79fordblake
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2017 at 9:28pm
Also it use to have a 3 wire alternator on it. I went back with a one wire alternator when it quit. The new alternator I haven't installed yet is also a one wire.


Posted By: cottonpatch
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2017 at 10:32pm
The Autolite book calls for the "85" plug for WD45 and D15 II. It's a projected tip resistor plug.

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'52 CA, '61 D10 II, ‘61 D15, '66 D15II, '63 D17D III, ‘69 170, '73 185 Crop Hustler, '79 185, '79 7000, '77 7040


Posted By: 79fordblake
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 9:36am
I've cleaned all connections before but I went over them all again today with the multimeter. They all checked good including distributer and alternator.
Coil measured 3.8 ohm. Instructions say 3.0 ohm or more for 4 cylinder.

So I guess I'll get those plugs changed and swap out alternators and see what happens. Also may get the matching flame thrower coil?


Posted By: Carl(NWWI)
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 10:22am
That's weird. I've put 10 of these kits in over the last 10 years and have had zero issues. Even been running the 295 plugs.



Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 12:18pm
As I said, find a Delco CS in the junkyard with the same frame as what you have now.  Swapping alternators will be easier that way. Installing a 3-wire would be easier and cheaper. Run it temporarily by touching the "I" wire to the BAT on the alternator once the engine is running. A momentary touch is all you need to start the alternator charging.  Even though it's a 3-wire, you only need to use two wires.  Don't get a Delco with an "F" terminal, That would be a D model. Most of those have serpentine pulleys anyway.


Posted By: 79fordblake
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 2:51pm
I dont understand why it would be easier and cheaper??? I've already been running a one wire on it for years and I've already bought a new one wire alternator. I work 12hr days no junkyard is open when I get home.


Posted By: Carl(NWWI)
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 9:27pm
I've been running a single wire on mine for 10 years. That shouldn't be the problem unless a diode went bad, then maybe it's back feeding some frequency and taking the ignition out, certainly a possibility.

I'm assuming you have ignition wire going to the plus side of coil and red side to plus side on coil?



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