OC: MM ZAU
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=135330
Printed Date: 16 May 2025 at 5:03am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: OC: MM ZAU
Posted By: CrestonM
Subject: OC: MM ZAU
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 12:45pm
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There is a "barn find" Minneapolis Moline ZAU coming up at a consignment auction a few miles from my house. It looks straight with good tires. Just has a 1/2" of dust on it. I looked it up on tractordata, and it seems like a nice model. 36 PTO hp, and weighs a good bit more than the 8N, which is great. Only thing that's kinda goofy seeming is the hand clutch. At least it has foot brakes though.... I couldn't find any info on hydraulics or PTO.... is anyone familiar with these tractors? Do they have hydraulics? If so, are they live? Do they have live PTO? I heard the ZB has live PTO, but I don't know about the ZA. How does the ZA compare to a Allis WC? If it looks good upon my inspection (hopefully it runs), I might buy it if it sells really cheap, to get a good combine running tractor. The B does ok, but it's giving it all its got, and the governor never comes off the wall. A few months ago some restored tractors sold at the same type of auction at the same location (Farmall M, John Deere A, and Allis B). All sold for less than $800 each, so I imagine this "barn find" MM will go pretty cheap. Not many collectors in the area. The thing that catches my attention most about this MM is knowledge and parts availability. Are there good suppliers of parts, if they should be needed? None of my tractors (except the 8N) have needed major work, so I'm not too concerned. If anyone else has any experience with these tractors, I'd like to hear about them. I know nothing about Molines, other than a A-C friend of mine has a MM U Special and GB that he really likes. I figure y'all northerners would have a bunch of MM's up there, since they were made in MN.
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Replies:
Posted By: steelwheelAcjim
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 1:25pm
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On this model: No live PTO. Live hydraulic was an option, it would be a gear-driven pump on the left side of the motor(sitting on tractor) with remote lines running to the back. I have one rusting(resting) in my tractor cemetery. ------------- Pre-WW2 A-C tractors on steel wheels...because I'm too cheap to buy tires! |
Posted By: tadams(OH)
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 1:59pm
| Creston, we are featuring MM at our show in July 7& 8, 2017 at Ashland, OH. bring it on over if you get it. |
Posted By: grinder220
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 2:24pm
| Buy it,they're a good tractor and you'll come to find the hand clutch is pretty handy. As far as comparison to a WC the minne is a better tractor. Plus it has a 5 speed transmission. The molines rank right up there with allis in my book. I grew up with both and farm with both brands to this day. |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 2:39pm
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Hydraulics, but no rear hydraulic lift. There is a hydraulic cylinder that you can remove and put on Your implement. The hand clutch was no problem. The brakes were effective and easy for your left foot to reach. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 3:26pm
Sounds good, but it's a bit of a stretch from OK to OH! Lol! If I leave early, I can hit your show, visit a buddy in OH, then head to MN for Hutch! Lol
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tadams(OH) wrote:Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 3:27pm
Thanks. I always heard good about the MM tractors, the only complaint being the front ends on all of them are too light, which won't be a problem for me. Biggest load it will have is a 7' tandem disk.
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Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 3:29pm
| What about parts ability? The MM is starting to develop a "prairie" golden halo, but the parts availability still concerns me, not that any of my tractors have needed a ton of work. I looked around some more, and I still can't find valves, overhaul kits, clutches, or anything else. Just little stuff like gaskets and seals. |
Posted By: grinder220
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 3:45pm
| Agco still carries lots of parts for them and there are people who specialize in moline parts both used and reproduction. As far as weak front axles that holds true on the larger wide front row crop models. They had a lot of motor weighing down on them. I have a vista G1000 that has bowed out front wheels from all that weight and I see lots of them like that. |
Posted By: grinder220
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 3:47pm
| Is this one a red grill model or solid yellow? |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 4:21pm
Yellow
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Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 4:25pm
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A friend of mine has an old MM Z engine that was a power unit on a MM combine that his dad had. He said these engines are kinda neat, but they don't have sleeves. Ok....sounds like a modern "throwaway" block....What do you do when it's been overhauled a couple times, and is bored out to the max? Are you just straight outta luck? I'm starting to second guess the whole MM idea, and cling tighter to Mother Allis. Lol Also, the lack of push rods is kinda interesting....just monstrous vertical rocker arms, and sideways valves, and 2 cylinder heads.
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Posted By: grinder220
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 4:43pm
| Just 1 head on that engine. Not sure how much over bore you can go on those particular engines but on the 283 and larger you can easily go .120 over. Pretty good odds that block would out live any of us. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 4:47pm
I am looking in the AGCO parts book, and the block and head are....the...same....thing??? This is one weird engine..... They list pistons of standard, .020, and .040 oversize.
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Posted By: grinder220
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 4:53pm
| They use a flat head bolted to the side of the block. There's a guy in Ohio who can get large over bore pistons. Not sure if he makes them or just sells them. Also there are lots of used over sized pistons out there. Clint Stamm in KS sells lots of parts. Some parts are listed on his web page. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 5:27pm
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Thanks guys. I'm going to call the guy who is consigning the tractor and talk to him about it. See if he can give me the story on it. Then I'll go up a couple days before the sale and look it over, maybe drive it (if it runs). I'll make my decision from there, but right now the only thing holding me back is parts availability. (Parts that aren't the expensive AGCO ones) Thanks grinder220 for your help so far! I really do appreciate it.
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Posted By: Mike Plotner
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 5:46pm
I think your summer is planned! ------------- 2001 Gleaner R42, 1978 7060, 1977 7000, 1966 190 XT, 1966 D-17 Series IV and 1952 WD and more keep my farm running! |
Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 5:54pm
| Benes Service in Valparaiso NE, would be your best source of parts. When the MM plant closed, he bought all of the remaining parts, hauled semi loads out. |
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 7:13pm
| A few years back we restored a ZTU our buddy bought for dirt cheap. It was very enjoyable to work on a new color and see the details of it. The hand clutch and seat that would swing out of the way so the operator could stand was a feature to get some farmers to quit using horses and move up I'm thinking!!! What I really thought was weird was the spark plug location. Instead of being on top of the cylinder it was totally off to the side!!! Interesting and it was cool to get it running. Ryan |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 7:26pm
I have heard a lot of guys say they are very neat engines...totally different than any other. Did you have trouble finding parts? Where did you get them? If I can't find a good source for parts, I'm saying forget Moline, and staying rooted with Allis! Lol
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Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 7:28pm
I'll contact them and see if I can pick their brain a bit. Is this them? http://www.benesservice.com/default.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.benesservice.com/default.htm Thanks
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Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 7:51pm
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The block is not a single assembly. There is a lower section, two cylinder assemblies with two cylinders in each, and a single head that covers both cylinder assemblies. If the tractor burns oil you might be able to get by with a ring job. Yes, the front end can be light at times. The one I was familiar with handled a 3-14 trailer plow easily. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 8:13pm
That's the way I understood it, based on the parts diagram and what a friend told me. My friend told me the pistons come up and almost touch the head, so if carbon builds up on the pistons, it could crack the head. He said that happened to his Z power unit they had on a combine. Anyone else ever heard of this or had that problem?
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Posted By: TimNearFortWorth
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 9:43pm
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We had a late 40's (?) ZTU growing up and it was on the farm when purchased in 61. Dad flooded it out with MM Oil every fall when stored and we pulled it with the CA to initially pop it off each spring. Was always a hard starter (hand crank) as I recall but would work all day and night without complaint on our hilly dairy. Kept it on the barn bridge and would start within five feet but was a pain to start the hotter it got. Swing away seat was handy as you could stand on that nice platform and that hand clutch never gave us problems, used mostly for crimping hay and hauling wagons. She was a hoss and still had the webbed tires on it when we sold out in 79. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 10:29pm
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I guess I just need to go see the tractor, see if it will run, and go from there. Now that I step back and look at it, I'm pretty much assuming it's a basket case in dire need of a rebuild. However, I honestly have no idea what it's like. I guess I just need to wait and see for now. Thanks for all your help and opinions guys! And if anyone has any other sources for parts, I'd appreciate hearing them! Thanks!
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Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 10:35pm
Also, here is a "not so good" photo of the tractor. The tires look good, but the rear one is flat. I'm hoping it's not rotted out....if so, that's a shot in the gut. Them tires eat up your money QUICK!!!! |
Posted By: shameless (ne)
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 10:39pm
| I know 2 farmers that still farm with MM's, and 1 city bot that collected them for years, had them all in a 50x100 ft Quonset. packed full, and one night an electrical short happened and he lost them all to fire. they all were restored! no insurance. i'm not sure if he has resumed his hobby or not. the 2 farmers I know that use them farm ALOT of acres. (in the 2000 acre range). |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 10:52pm
Surely they're not using ZA's....Lol!
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Posted By: shameless (ne)
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 11:00pm
| they are using all different MM tractors, I don't know but a few of them are the G706's and others. but they are all MM's. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 11:19pm
I always thought it'd be fun to farm about 40 acres with the 8N, but then I plowed and disked about 5 this past weekend....that was enough for a while....of course, it was virgin sod that was REALLY rough...especially on that short wheelbase tractor! Those 2 days made me sorer than I'd ever been...sheesh! Project "air-ride seat on an 8N", here I come. Lol
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Posted By: Dipstick In
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 11:41pm
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You have a huge boneyard in Southwest Mo., I have a calendar if I can find it. It has been there for years and years! ------------- You don't really have to be smart if you know who is! |
Posted By: Dipstick In
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 12:15am
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Creston I found their calendar that I got in 2006 when I was there. I did not count the tractors,,,,,,,, but I'm guessing they had well over 200 of them................ The info: Welters Farm Supply Verona, Mo. 65769 417-498-6496 This is a family that lives, eats, and breaths Moline's, and they know just about everything. I think that at one time, Ed, the father was a Minnie, or a White dealer, and they still had some White machinery when I was there which they used to farm with. My guess is that you might be able to find them on the internet, because they have a huge parts business, nationwide! And they are great people to do business with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fun to talk to also!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ps. They are about 30 miles east of Joplin, around the 30-35 mile marker.
------------- You don't really have to be smart if you know who is! |
Posted By: TL12A
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 8:49am
| Creston, Welters in Misouri has new and used MM parts. MM's really were a high quality tractors. Hand clutches were perfect when you were running a grinder. If the price is right, go for it---You can always get a tire later. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 11:52am
That's the plan :) We'll see how it goes. I've got a while, about 3 weeks, before the auction.
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Posted By: Jim Hancock
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 12:19pm
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Verona, MO!! That's in my neck of the woods when I was growin' up! ------------- How blessed we are by HIS GRACE! |
Posted By: shameless (ne)
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 12:49pm
| there's a MM museum at Missouri Valley IA. dunno the name of it tho |
Posted By: cpg
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 1:04pm
| I have always wanted to ad an MM to my collection as I think they look really sharp painted up. If it goes cheap I would jump on it. Being in a barn and looks like the exhaust has a cap I would say you could give it a good service and have it driveable unless it was parked with major issues. Even so like others said I'm sure you can find a place that has parts. Would be a very cool addition. |
Posted By: jiminnd
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 1:31pm
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I have a cousin who is MM guy, has about half dozen but he grew up on them so has more experience with them. I think they are good, one thing to maybe look at is it may have 36 inch rear rubber. Have another neighbor with one and tires can be an issure although I think his is an R. ------------- 1945 C, 1949 WF and WD, 1981 185, 1982 8030, unknown D14(nonrunner) |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 2:18pm
Yellow fever doesnt feel nearly as good as orange fever  ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: Dipstick In
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 2:35pm
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There is also a Moline boneyard at Washington, Ks,,,,,,,,,,,, but I don't think they have near the tractors to part out! ------------- You don't really have to be smart if you know who is! |
Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 2:55pm
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I bought 2 complete non running MM Z tractors last Fall at an auction in the Shenandoah Valley for $25 each one has a like new set of tires on the back. |
Posted By: TL12A
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 8:43pm
| Creeston, Welters in Missouri sells new and used parts. The hand clutches were great when running a grinder. MM's were a very well built tractor |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 7:16pm
Here she is! I didn't take the photo, it's just an updated pic on the auction website.  Sorry it's sideways. I've tried rotating it, but can't get it to appear on this website properly oriented. The tires look good, so hopefully a tube or can of Fix a Flat will fix it. I put a can of Fix a Flat in the RF tire on my 8N in 2013, and I haven't aired it up since, so I'm a believer in that. Before that, it wouldn't hold air for 2 hours.
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Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 7:20pm
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Take pictures of your own if you can. I'd like to see close ups of the engine on both sides and a few of the operator's station. |
Posted By: grinder220
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 7:55pm
| Looks like the jugs have been off at some point, was the engine rebuilt? |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 8:10pm
I noticed that, too. The jugs stuck out at me when I first saw that pic. I have no idea if it's been rebuilt, but at that age, I would think it has been. I could call the guy and ask him if he knows. He said his Dad bought it about 20 years ago from a farmer who used it regularly. They had the intent of restoring it, but they never did. Just sat in the barn. He said it ran really good when they parked it, and it just needed cosmetic work. I'll go look at it this coming Friday and get some more, detailed pics.
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Posted By: TimNearFortWorth
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 7:51am
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Get yourself some "Berrymans" Creston and you won't use anything else. I brush cut plenty of mesquite and only have repairs if I happen to get too close to a tree with a front tire and nick the valve stem. Have pulled plenty of 2" thorns out of tires using vise-grips, watch it bubble when topped back up with air and seal off. Have even used it in tires where calcium was pumped out and it reacted the same, pull thorn, air it up and go back to working tractor. Berrymans will also not hurt the rim as I have replaced tires and found no corrosion. |