Feeling Guilty
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=132207
Printed Date: 03 Nov 2025 at 1:26pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Feeling Guilty
Posted By: what66
Subject: Feeling Guilty
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 10:43am
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Hi guys I just finished doing some upgrades on my 48 c and I'm feeling a little Guilty for altering such a great tractor any of you feel this way? If it was a show tractor I would keep it like it was made but I need to use it so I had to do some upgrades. I just added an electric fan to replace the louvers and took off the engine fan.  And added a crank mounted pump.  When I finally get my skid loader the tractors will be restored but it may be a few years . |
Replies:
Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 10:48am
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I understand the need to use it, but why did you add the electric fan when the mechanical fan worked fine all these years?
------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '63 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080 |
Posted By: what66
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 11:00am
| I replaced the fan for cold weather operation to get faster warm up. |
Posted By: JoeM(GA)
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 11:27am
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Why feel guilty for fixing YOUR tractor to do what YOU want? If it makes you happy, or does what you need, go for it! ------------- Allis Express North Georgia 41 WC,48 UC Cane,7-G's, Ford 345C TLB |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 12:07pm
| temp controlled electric fan makes sense to me |
Posted By: Grayray
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 12:13pm
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All you did was make a few minor modifications to the tractor to fit your needs. Ain't nothing wrong with that. If you saved the old parts, you can convert it back to original any time you want/need to. I don't see any problem with it. |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 1:21pm
thermostat is suppose to control water temp, and the lovers were used before the tractors came out with the thermostats on them...Now if you don't have a thermostat on the engine already, ... I would hut for the housing and put one on. like the others said, it's your tractor, and you did whatyou needed to do... live hydraulic will be nice when using a loader.... just that now when starting i cold, you will be turning the pump too... Should have put on an electrical engagement for when you were going to use it...   ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: shameless (ne)
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 4:34pm
| I hope you still have the pump on it to circulate the water? |
Posted By: Ranse
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 5:10pm
| I hear ya man, I hate to alter a tractor too. But think of it like this, if it wasn't for you, this tractor might be rotting in a fence row somewhere. Save the tractor any way you see fit. |
Posted By: JK in Pa
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 5:18pm
| That looks like a vein pump to me. If it is they really don't have any rotating resistance until they turn 500-600 rpms. Ideal for cold morning starts. I have one on my WD. Nice job on the tractor! |
Posted By: Gary in da UP
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 5:46pm
| Pfffft, that's nothing , I have a really cobbled up WC.... |
Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 6:15pm
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Don't feel guilty.......there are a lot of us doing the same thing. Just trying to get by. Ours are work tractors, not show tractors. And even then they are changed to make them look even better. Whatever works and makes YOU happy!! I'll be your lawyer........and no, I didn't go to law school....hehehe ------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
Posted By: copyrite1972
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 6:18pm
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Nope, you should feel guilty! Un fix it at once!!!!!!! ------------- D15 Series II |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 8:40pm
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No one is gonna throw stones unless you paint it green and yeller. ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 9:42pm
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I agree with what was said earlier. Not sure how much better the electric fan will be over the thermostat and wondering if it will become a issue as far as cleaning out the radiator but if it works better great. I had only heard race car people say they went electric to save a little on hp but that was years ago. As to the hydraulics I have made that same upgrade on both of my d serries tractors. It makes them much more useful to have dual remotes. That is how I set mine up. One with a loader and dual remotes. Like others said if you can upgrade it and keep it out there being useful great. Don't feel guilty feel proud of the fact that you have taken an old gem and improved it to perform a modern task you need done. As much as I enjoy seeing a factory correct tractor at a show I would much rather see a slightly modified tractor out there in a field earning it's keep doing the types of work they where designed for. |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2016 at 9:30am
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Hey 66,,,like everybody is tellin you,,,it's better to save these old timers by what ever means you can,, so you can continue to use it,,,,  I've always been pretty guilty bout re-engineerin something if it don't do what I need it to do,,,I always try to make the modification look like it was made on the equipment but sometimes it sorta sticks out,,,,  If you don't mind,,I'm gonna hijack your thread for a quickie question as I wanna see if I can get some suggestions for fixin my tractor. I have a D14 Industrial Backhoe/Loader that has a wore out power steering pump. I did manage to find a replacement pump but it also had many miles on it. With even a partial load in the bucket,,You cannot turn it even with BOTH hands and I ain't gettin no younger,,,!!! I was able to contact a "gear Mfgr" back east that would take my pump and machine it and build 2 new gears and shafts for it,,,to the tune of $650-$700,,,,,I told him to go wait a couple of years,,,,,, At this point,,I'm not too terribly concerned with how a modification looks as long as the tractor will TURN,,,,, Anybody want to post some pics of how they modified their tractors,,,,??? |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2016 at 9:41am
| Joe my d15 is about the same way and it has a good pump on it. With no bucket she steers like a nice power steering tractor. With the bucket empty on the ts500 loader she steers like a tractor with manual steering and no loader. With a bucket full forget it she doesn't turn for nothing. From what I have been able to discover from the old timers here the ts500 loader is just too heavy for the power steering system on these tractors. My frontend would tend to say that it is too heavy with all the brakes and welds on it before I got it. I was wondering about swapping it out with a different system all together or another thought was to replace the tyrod with a hydraulic cylinder so the steering is a cylinder with more force. Sort of scared I will just brake the steering pivot arm on the tire end whatever that is called. But I think the problem isn't so much the pump as the system just not being able to put much force on the tires. My uncle told me well it is still alot better then the d14 we had without power steering and a loader that loader was smaller and you could only turn with breaks. I hit a post in my 1720 something barn the other day and it made me cry having to fix it because I couldn't steer the d15 in there faster enough. |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2016 at 8:57pm
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Hey Dan,, you may be right on the system itself not being up to par for the loader with a full bucket.,,so,,I doubt a bigger cylinder to operate the ram would only break something. I seem to remember someone here had grafted a complete front end from some other tractor onto an Allis and looked like a clean installation. I sure wisht that person would re-post that system again. I'm going to start lookin for a donor whatever cause I sure ain't gonna put up with this ,,,,,chit, !!! ,,,my wrists still hurt from last week fightin that dang steering wheel,,,,, |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2016 at 9:04pm
| Joe can you t off of the hydraulic pump for the loader with a priory flow control valve in place of the pump you suspect is bad. |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2016 at 5:27am
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well,,Dan,,that is a thought,,but I have no clue what the "required operating pressures/ GPM" are for the two systems,,,?? I did look in the manual I have on the D14,, but does not list the operating pressure or GPM of the power steering system,,,,I "had" intended to install a pressure gauge on the loader pump when I re-piped the system to move the switching valve accessible to the operator,,,but somehow forgot it,,,, ,,,but can still be done 'thought too much problem,,,,HMMmmmmmm,,,,,,,, |
Posted By: corbinstein
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2016 at 6:37am
| what about a char-lyn setup? would that work? |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2016 at 7:10am
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Joe the loader pump should max out at 3000 psi with the loader relief valve set 2200 to 2500 is typical. You have to get the part number for the pump to verify the flow they got changed alot over the years. But ti think 12 is pretty typical. My d15 had a 30 gpm on it when I got it. That is too much for the motor and I am swapping it put for a 18 gpm. I have no idea what the pressure or flow is on the stock power steering system is. |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2016 at 4:26am
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Hey Corbinstein,,,,Seems I 've read somethin bout the Char-lyn pump,,,wasn't it a replacement, belt driven pump used on the WD's? Fact is,,,I think ole Shameless had one on thet WD he stole,,,,,er,,,, ,, from thet guy tryin to sell if off a trailer,,,WAIT,,,I remember now,,,,He put it up for bid and,,,,and,,,I thought I had the high bid,,,then he went and changed the subject on me,,,,and I plumb forgot all bout it.... HMMmmmmmm,,,,,,,??? |
Posted By: GregStremel
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2016 at 5:09am
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We put a loader on our WD and our D17. For the WD, we put a front axle from a 190 with the steering valve. It works good. The loader will lift 3,000 lbs (pallet of quikcrete). We don't expect it to turn the tires while stationary. A big bale of hay is no problem. The D17 already had power steering. We added an additional cylinder. It also works well but it slows the speed of the steering. The same pump has to pump more oil to make the turn. No problem for regular driving. If I wanted to turn quickly, like raking hay, it would be a minus. |
Posted By: GregStremel
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2016 at 5:13am
| We do not feel bad about altering our tractors. We are just making them modern and more usable. We do try to make our modifications look good. |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2016 at 9:28am
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OK,,,Greg,,and you KNEW this was comin,,,,, I sure would like to see some pics of your Modification you did,,,. I would be tickled to just be able to turn mine while movin with a partial load,,but it just won't do it,,,my wrists were so sore for 2-3 days after tryin to use it to move some dirt. Yould'a thought the counter weight of the backhoe would of helped some but sure didn't,,, thet thing felt like a dead weight,,,,Looked some more yesterday, at the system on the d14 and with using some hydraulic hoses to "by-pass" the D14 pump,,,,,am wondering if the BH/Loader pump would be a possibility of a cure,,,,??,,,OR,,is some of the other parts of the system the weak parts,,?? Anybody,,,ANYBODY,,,???? "" We are just making them modern and more usable."" Ya took the words right outa my mouth, Greg,,,, Come on Guys,,,I KNOW they's lots of savey out there,,,,help us out here,,,, |
Posted By: GregStremel
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2016 at 12:40pm
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I am not really into doing pictures. I should teach my self. I do know how to text pictures or maybe even email. Phone is four l seven 4 three seven nine 4 9 l. I would love to share pictures with you and others on this forum. Send me a text and I will take pictures this afternoon when I get home |
Posted By: GregStremel
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2016 at 12:53pm
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I am not an engineer, but here is my understanding. Pump pressure equals power. Pump flow equals speed. Assuming your pump is putting out factory pressure, the only way to improve power is to increase the cylinder area. We did this by adding an additional cylinder in addition to the factory one which we left and still use. We put a tee in the steel ines to plumb the additional cylinder . A pto pump, even if it has greater flow, will not increase turning power unless the system pressure is increased. That is why we went with the additional cylinder. Thus was on the D17. On the WD, it did not have power steering. The 190 axle had its own cylinder. We added a pump driven by the crankshaft to run the pump. |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2016 at 1:11pm
| Greg you have it right. The only reason I suggested using the other pump is Joe said his pump needed an expensive rebuild. |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 6:31am
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Hey Greg,,I got the pics and am doin some study'in on em,,,gonna move em to my PC and then post em here for others,,, anybody got a 190 front end for sale for cheap,,,I know,!!,,I know,,Shameless, but it is Christmas time,,,,,,, |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 7:50am
x2! Also...I thought once about putting a electric fan on my 8N, so when I'm mowing (which is its main chore) and the radiator gets covered in seeds/bugs/grass, I could flip a switch to reverse the fan, and it will clean itself! (Just like the new Gleaners) I just decided being stock was more important too me. BUT...I did attach an easily removable 12" LED light bar to the bumper. Man...that really lights the place up!
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JoeM(GA) wrote:Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 12:32pm
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No guilt in making modifications for the reason of increasing it's future job capacity... it's like going back to school, getting an overhaul, and getting back in shape. Basic Hydraulics class anyone? Start a new thread, and ask all your questions, I'll explain it one reply at-a-time. Bring sharp pencil and fresh batteries in the calculator, there WILL be a quiz... ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 8:49pm
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Hey Dave Kamp,,,Loooooong time we don't hear from you,,,,,you must be terribly busy and on the road too much,,, Soon as I saw your post,,,I KNEW you was one person I wanted to ask a question to,,, ,,,so,,I'll follow instructions,,,,, |
Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2016 at 7:34pm
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I ALWAYS gots a sharp pencil.........BUT, if'n I gotta have fresh batteries, I'll have to steal em out of the old ladies..........er.......Oops.....the little woman.......I'll have to steal em out of her......er.......um...........aw never mind, I'm good at finger countin....... Nice to have you back Dave!! Hope you wasn't sick or sumthin? ------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |