Calling All Diesel Techs (Update)
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=131390
Printed Date: 28 May 2025 at 10:28pm
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Topic: Calling All Diesel Techs (Update)
Posted By: Slim
Subject: Calling All Diesel Techs (Update)
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 6:09pm
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You may have seen the previous threads of mine about trying to get a 3cyl. diesel Kubota B7100 running. Well, it still won't run. The injection pump was looked over by an expert and found nothing wrong. The injectors were tested and were good. Clean fuel flowing through all lines. Glow plugs are good. It will not start on ether or brake cleaner. The engine seems to have good compression as I have held the palm of my hand over the intake manifold while cranking and it sucks my palm in. I haven't checked the compression officially as I don't think that's the issue. The pump shutoff is purely mechanical, so I know when it's on or off. What am I missing here guys? -Slim ------------- AC 1971 170 WF Gas, AC 185 Diesel WF, AC WD NF, AC '54 WD45 NF, AC 7080, AC 7030, Wheel Horse D-180 Automatic |
Replies:
Posted By: baverwolf
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 6:52pm
| Do you get any white smoke out of the exhaust when cranking it? |
Posted By: cbr_fx4
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 6:55pm
| I have a small yanmar loader tractor with a 2 cylinder diesel. If you run it out of fuel no amount of pulling or ether will get it running. There is a small bleeder screw on the fuel pump or filter head can't remember which. Bleed that and it starts right up. Yours probably has something similar. |
Posted By: Slim
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 7:05pm
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Yes, it puffs white smoke when cranking. I'll try to bleed from the filter head and see what happens. -Slim ------------- AC 1971 170 WF Gas, AC 185 Diesel WF, AC WD NF, AC '54 WD45 NF, AC 7080, AC 7030, Wheel Horse D-180 Automatic |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 7:06pm
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Those PFR systems are very tough to get bled. Leave the lines loose at the injector ends, and keep bleeding until you get fuel there. Might help to bleed to the pump first. They pump so little fuel, it's really hard to get the air out. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: kev/ont
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 8:05pm
| If it puffs white smoke when you roll it over, then i'd say you are getting some fuel there. I would be getting a more accurate compression reading. If it won't fire on either or brake kleen, then you have mechanical issues somewhere. |
Posted By: johnkc
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 9:06pm
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What's the back story? Did you buy it this way? Or did she up and die when running? ------------- I support the development of hybrid automobiles and alternative fuels as I need DIESEL fuel for my ALLIS CHALMERS! |
Posted By: 210Postin
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 9:15pm
| Check compression, make sure their is no remotes in demand. Have replaced bent rods in these little engines from either . |
Posted By: corbinstein
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 7:02am
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not getting enough fuel.... Don't use Ether, use a little WD-40.... Bleed, Bleed, then Bleed until You Bleed....
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Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 7:07am
| White smoke is low compression. Does it spin over fast? Hook it behind another tractor. Most diesels need to turn 800 RPMs to start. MACK |
Posted By: farmtoybuilder
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 7:54am
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COMPRESSION!!!!!!!!!!! Is first thing you should have checked after seeing that it pumped fuel. If its not above 350#'s it won't run-start. 395 to 450 is normal. Also all glow plugs need to work! As other said pull it and see what happens. But I bet it doesn't have enough compression! Not hard to bleed! Bleed first at hose-fitting going into pump, and crack a line on injector. We sold hundreds of them and were a Great Tractor. But like any engine some get neglected! And they do wear out! ------------- 5 different TT-10's,5 TT-18's Terra Tigers,B-10,2 B-207's,B-110,2 B-112's,HB-112,B-210,B-212,HB212,2 Scamp's & Homilite T-10. Still hunting NICE HB-112 & anything Terra Tiger & Trailers for them. |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 9:13am
| what farmtoy biulder said those glow plugs have to work and if you used ether and you didnt ether lock it, it problley doesnt have enought compression do leak down test after compression test to find out were compression is going |
Posted By: TramwayGuy
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 12:31pm
| Sounds like you demonstrated that it has vacuum. Doesn't tell you that it has decent compression. Should start by pulling it, though.... |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 1:01pm
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If it won't hit on ether in the intake, base mechanical problem. Not enough compression, not enough heat to ignite the fuel. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 1:04pm
| Pull it fast enough to spin the engine 1500 RPM or so and it should eventually start. Once running, then if you continue to have starting issues, run a compression test on it. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 6:27pm
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Another option is to go over to the kubota forum, and ask them, there. They might be able to better explain the bleeding procedure... there is usually a screw on the pump and sometimes a vacuum bleed assist screw, that uses engine vacuum to aid in pulling fuel to the pump. If you ain't got the compression, though, it ain't gonna start... http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/
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Posted By: Slim
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 6:36pm
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Glow plugs are good. Just checked compression and it is around 150 which is crap. Looks like a rebuild. -Slim ------------- AC 1971 170 WF Gas, AC 185 Diesel WF, AC WD NF, AC '54 WD45 NF, AC 7080, AC 7030, Wheel Horse D-180 Automatic |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 7:50pm
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What rpm were you spinning when you checked compression? ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Gary(WI)
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 9:03pm
| I jus has a lady call me and say her lawnmower will not start. I went over and looked at it would crank slow and try to start. I tried ether still nothing. After a couple more times the starter was hot to the touch. I got a new starter and installed it turned over a lot faster and started on second try. I have had trouble on some JDs that did not start also and same problem engine was not cranking fast enough to start. But some engines will start even if cranking slow some will not. |
Posted By: Orange Tractors
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2016 at 12:28am
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I have an Kubota L175 with a Woods belly mower. I found a lot of help on the orangetractortalks.com forum. Bleeding my little two cylinder just about has to be done at the injector. It really helps if the compression release is working. Have you adjusted the valves? Doing that not only helped with power, I think it started easier too.
Robert
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Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2016 at 3:05pm
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If the pump has been off, I would check your timing. May be 180 degrees off. Regardless, verify timing. Also may have a head gasket issue. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2016 at 5:14pm
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These pumps can't be put on 180 out, it just sits down in the block, the camshaft and governor stays on the engine. They are called PFR pumps. I'm closely following this since I've got a local guy in the same situation. Had me go through pump and injectors, and it will almost start. One glow plug was no good, so I told him that could make the difference, plus getting the cranking speed up some more. We have plenty of fuel delivery, it was running black fuel out the exhaust a little. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2016 at 6:10pm
Also, in cold weather, starting some of these little diesels can be a real pain. Especially if you don't have a 'lectric preheater, on 'em. I have a trick for that, too. Take a single burner coleman gas stove, or radiant tent heater, and slide it under the oil pan, and let it warm up for about 45 minutes. Don't do it on a oil leaking motor, though, LOL... These old gas heaters can be bought cheap, at yard sales(I never paid much more than $20, on mine) or auctions...
 |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2016 at 12:29pm
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Thanks for correcting me Ed. I guess all Orange tractors are not the same lol. I shouldn't have chimed in on a brand that I know nothing about. Plus being newer as well. Sometimes I just can't help myself. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2016 at 12:51pm
No sweat Robbie! You're just trying to help. Those compact diesels are in a world of their own. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
AC720Man wrote:Posted By: Slim
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2016 at 3:59pm
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So I ended up pulling the head on the tractor to inspect the head gasket as that was the only thing I could think of apart from bad rings. Head gasket was good. Cylinder #1 was clean and from what I could tell looked like it was burning fuel correctly. Cylinder #2 was dirty and had a "chip" out of the edge of the piston head. Cylinder #3 was filthy. Probably zero fuel being burned in that chamber. Looks like new rings and a piston I guess. -Slim ------------- AC 1971 170 WF Gas, AC 185 Diesel WF, AC WD NF, AC '54 WD45 NF, AC 7080, AC 7030, Wheel Horse D-180 Automatic |
Posted By: Slim
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2016 at 4:35pm
------------- AC 1971 170 WF Gas, AC 185 Diesel WF, AC WD NF, AC '54 WD45 NF, AC 7080, AC 7030, Wheel Horse D-180 Automatic |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2016 at 5:47pm
| When you put it back together, don't lose the oil pipe seal ring, that comes with the HG... |