Coil
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=131344
Printed Date: 23 May 2025 at 11:28am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Coil
Posted By: brews4me
Subject: Coil
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2016 at 8:20pm
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Hi again folks, several questions. I'm in need of a tune up, the 1958 D14 currently has a coil that's marked 12 volt, the D14 is a 6 volt, is that the right coil or should I seek out a new 6 volt??? I also see coils for sale marked "hot", if the 12 volt is ok should I get a hot coil???? The D14 doesn't come with a fuel pump, what's the recommended process to not have issues going up a hill at low speeds??? I don't remember my grandfather having issues but this weekend I had a start issue when parked going up a hill??? Also, my dash has the power boost gauge but it's not hooked to anything, any ideas where to hookup the gauge to??? Got this thing running after a 10 year rest in the barn, cranked up the first turn of the key after some prep. Runs great, just a few hiccups! |
Replies:
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2016 at 9:20pm
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You will have better ignition with a 6 volt coil on a 6 volt tractor. Gas should gravity flow if the tank is near full when you have to park it on a hill. Might be worth turning the tractor direction to be sure gravity will flow the fuel. If you have added an inline fuel filter it may be restricting the flow because most of those filters are designed for use with a fuel pump, not the very low pressure of gravity. Gerald J. |
Posted By: brews4me
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2016 at 9:25pm
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Man, you're right on target, an inline fuel filter after the sediment bowl has been added somewhere along the way. I will have to get that thing off.
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Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2016 at 9:44pm
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Early D14s were originally 6 volt (until 1959). Sounds like yours was probably converted to 12 volt at some point before you got it. That power booster gauge (Called traction booster) hooks up to a small steel line which leads to a small box about a foot away that is mounted on top of the torque tube. Most of those gauges no longer work now and they don't really tell you anything when they do work. Hard starting when facing uphill can also be caused by the tank being low on gas. Chances are it's that inline filter which is causing the problem. Put a fuel bowl strainer on at the bottom of the gas tank instead. ------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080 |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 5:42am
most all modern coils are basically a 12 volt system, even if they are identified as 6 volt. Just make sure its wired correctly for the polarity of the system you are using...
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Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 6:06am
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See what kinda' Battery is in that Tractor. 3 cells, its a 6V Battery. 6 cells its a 12V Battery. If its still 6V, get yourself a new 6V coil and install it. If its flipped to 12V, make sure you get the correct 3.0 Ohm coil for the 4 cylinder on 12Vs. You need 2.7-3.3 Ohms of resistance in the ignition circuit for a 4 cylinder on 12V's, so a 3.0 Ohm coil sticks you smack dab in the center. We have either coil in stock on our website if interested. You usually won't find a "hot" coil for 6V's, but there are hot coils out there in the aftermarket for 12V coils. Not really necessary for a Tractor unless your using it in pulling competition or running a higher compression engine due to some engine work. If you move to an electronic ignition, you can run the optional hotter coil if you wish, even though the E.I. is designed for the OEM coil and system. That is totally up to the individual.. HTH Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 6:11am
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hmm, no one's asked, so I will... WHAT battery is in it !! That is very important to know.3 of my D-14s were 6 volt originally, though they've all been 'updated' to 12 volt. Possiblities.... 1) 6 volt battery, 6 volt coil, ballast resistor on plate with fuse holder 2) 6 volt D-14 with 12 volt battery, 6 volt coil AND additional ballast resistor 'somewhere'. 3) 6 volt D-14 with 12 volt battery AND 12 volt coil, NO ballast resistor 4) 12 volt D-14, 12 volt battery, ballast resistor on plate 5) 12 volt D-14 ,12 volt battery and real 12 volt coil any one else got a headache yet ??? I'm sure there's another combination.... Have to ask do you want to restore the D-14 and does the generator work well ? All mine are now 12 volt with CS-130 alternators ans side post batteries. Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 6:12am
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I'd measure across the coil studs. If you measure about 3 ohms, it's a true 12 volt coil. If you measure about half of that it's a 6 volt coil. In the transition between 6 and 12 volts many coils were labeled as 12 volts, but they were meant to be used with a ballast resistor. Those coils werte really designed as 6 volt coils. |
Posted By: bryan/silex
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 7:33am
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Question?? why would you have a 6volt battery 6 volt coil and a resistor?? resistor is not needed then....you would be cutting the power down too much ------------- WD's and 45's B's and c's and a few red ones , ALLIS EXPRESS also |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 10:16am
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For very high speed engines (like Nascar race cars running V-8s at 10,000 RPM) a low voltage coil with a ballast resistor works better. The lower inductance of the low voltage coil builds current faster and when supplied through a resistor builds current even faster than the coil alone. Running one coil on a V-8 engine at 10,000 RPM plus needs that. And some Chrysler street cars ran 3 volt coils with resistors in the 6 volt days. Tractor engines don't run nearly that fast, more often in the 6 volt, a 4 cylinder engine topping out at 2000 or 2250 RPM and so a plain 6 volt coil with a 6 volt battery or a 12 volt coil with a 12 volt battery. My 12 volt JD 4020 uses a 6 volt coil with a resistor. Over the time period that model was built, the resistor changed at least a couple times and mine is wired differently. The starter solenoid has an auxiliary contact that is wired direct to the coil and puts full battery voltage on the coil while cranking for better starting. The long skinny battery JD used has more voltage drop than other battery designs while cranking. In one version there was a resistor inside the ignition/start switch. In mine the ignition switch didn't start, a separate push button powers the starter solenoid and the resistor was a length of insulated iron or resistance wire hidden in the harness. Mine was modified to use a ceramic resistor made for the purpose mounted near the coil. I know Steve doesn't like those resistors but I haven't had any trouble with that resistor, my trouble was with the Scotch Tap used to connect the wire to the ignition switch end of the old resistance wire that went open while I was putting up hay. I hot wired the coil with a spare wire not switched and finished the job. Then I made a Y for spade lugs and took the blasted Scotch Tap out (and put it in the garbage) and haven't had an ignition problem since. The coil polarity needs to match the battery polarity along with the battery voltage. Gerald J. |
Posted By: bryan/silex
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 10:54am
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but your putting 12 volts to coil,,,,not 6 if you are putting 6 volts to a tractor engine why do you need the resistor? not a 10,000 rpm car motor,,,,all the 6 volt tractors I have seen have not had resistor ------------- WD's and 45's B's and c's and a few red ones , ALLIS EXPRESS also |
Posted By: brews4me
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 11:13am
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Folks- Everything is pretty much original, new 6 volt battery with 3 cells. 6 volt system with generator. BUT, someone along the way (recently) installed some 12 volt coil (probably the the incorrect one and off some old junk car maybe??? but it does run) and a inline fuel filter. The coil is marked 12V  |
Posted By: brews4me
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 2:52pm
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Sorry, don't know why the picture showed up as giant size??? Can anyone tell me if that's a Delco Distributer????? I am not close to that tractor since I closed up the barn for winter.
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Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 3:13pm
| Yes that is a delco spring clip distributor. Someone painted over the delco name plate on the right hand side in your picture. |
Posted By: brews4me
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 3:17pm
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Also, what was the purpose of the cigarette lighter in dash??? Really Cigs????? Guess now it's great for my smart phone! |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 3:24pm
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It is easy to size the picture. When using the fancier reply that includes the picture option, just enter width 640 and height 480 at the lower left options fields. Gerald J.  |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 3:24pm
Posted By: brews4me
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 3:40pm
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Ok, i'll give it a try, thanks so much!!!! Can someone tell me how to test this generator and what type of measurement should be coming out??? You gotta love the person who was trying to help an old tractor out and painted every damn wire and part!!!!!! arughhhhhhhh but it runs better with an orange belt!!!! hahahahha  |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 5:09pm
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It should show charge on the ammeter if its charging after starting if the engine is running at a fast idle or faster. If it has a voltage regulator that charging current should taper with time down to zero current. The A terminal should have 7.2 volts if regulated properly when its charging. It should be flashed if the battery has been changed, and that flashing should be before its run. To flash it should be in the manual, basically temporarily connect the B and A terminals on the cutout or regulator. One test that also accomplishes flashing is to take the belt off and connect those A and B terminals. The generator should run like a motor. If you then ground the F terminal it should slow down. Gerald J. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 5:20pm
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re: the coil.... while it says 12v it might acually be a '3 ohm' coil,so really a 6 volt coil... when installed in a 12v system, it'd need a 3 ohm 'ballast resistor' , that would allow 4 amps of current.. be nice is 'Steve' could look up what the heck a '112' coil is ! Google didn't help me,sigh.. Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: brews4me
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 5:29pm
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Not to be a total bonehead but are they marked A and B?? I can't say I've ever test a generator and I'm the kind of guy that has to stick a 9 volt battery on my tongue to see if it works! |
Posted By: brews4me
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 5:38pm
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my head hurts i'm learning so much here ! thanks all!!!!
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Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 5:44pm
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Someone did ask to check what Battery was in it. Me. So now we know its a 6V Battery. What's the Generator number on the tag. I can't make it out. The Delco 12V coil (112) is the 1.8 Ohm Universal version. Wrong for the application. Find out what the number of the Gennie is. It could be either a 6V or 12V with the short "step down" chassis. Also, to find out if it works, take it off and bring it to a rebuilder and let him load test it. He'll be able to tell you what it is and isn't doing. Check the voltage regulator. If its the OEM regulator (Delco) it will have its part number stamped on the mounting flange. If its been replaced, (which it probably has in its lifetime on the machine) unbolt it and look on the bottom of the unit. It will either be stamped, decaled, or inked what it is. ( ie- 6VPG, 12VPG/NG etc.) or have "VR-XXX number. I can ID that with my books. You may have peaches and apples there. You want either all peaches, or all apples. Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: brews4me
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 6:24pm
Gen, i took this pict last week also |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 8:27pm
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After its been tested be absolutely certain to flash it when reinstalling it. The odds are it will be the wrong polarity and that's disastrous to the cutout section of the voltage regulator. There should be at least three terminals on the voltage regulator marked F, A, and B. F for the generator field, A for the generator armature, and B for the wire to the battery through the ammeter. There can be an L terminal used to allow operating lights only when the engine is running. Gerald J. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 9:21pm
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Okay, the 1100025 is the higher amp 6V unit. Max amps is 30-35 @ full field. Like I mentioned, I'd pull it off and take down to your local rebuilder if you have one and have him check it out. It also would be good to bring the VR with you also. So far you're six volts except for the coil. Pick yourself up a 6V coil. You still need to ID the VR yet. Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: Chalmersbob
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 9:26pm
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To check if the genny is working, after flashing it, ground the F wire. Your amp meter should show 10 amps or more. Bob ------------- 4 B's, 1 C's,3 CA's, 2 G's WD, D14, D15, B-1, B10, B12, 712S, |
Posted By: brews4me
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 9:26pm
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The VR will probably be spring due to usually lots of snow and weather, but will try to run down if possible to identify. Here's me on that Allis in maybe 67  |
Posted By: brews4me
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 9:28pm
What kind of shop checks out generators??? And would know the right specs??
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Steve in NJ wrote:Posted By: brews4me
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 3:20pm
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ok, found a guy in Denver that will checkout VR and generator, 68$ plus parts. |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 4:39pm
| That is a good price I think I paid 100 to get the last one done. It is actually cheaper to buy a alt for it but I wanted to keep my d17 original as it has been that way my entire life. |