190xt Series III Power Director
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=130115
Printed Date: 18 Jul 2025 at 10:29pm
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Topic: 190xt Series III Power Director
Posted By: farmboy98
Subject: 190xt Series III Power Director
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2016 at 11:42am
HI, I am a student enrolled in the Agriculture Equipment Technician program at NTC in Wausau WI. I brought my 1971 190xt in to work on because the power director would sometimes slip in 8th gear, other times it would work like it should. I do know that there is a seal out between the hydraulic reservoir and the transmission. When I drained all of the fluids, only about a gallon came out of the hydraulic reservoir, maybe 4 gallons out of the tranny, a gallon of gear oil out of the left final drive, and then probably 8 gallons out of the right final drive housing My question is, could the high amount of fluid in the transmission cause the power director to slip? I tested pressure in high and low range and got about 235 psi in both, and about 20 in neutral.
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Replies:
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2016 at 12:48pm
| The one gallon in the hydraulic resevior will cause the power director to slip. it should have much more than that. your missing fluid went from the hydraulic resevior into the tranny. when your tranny got over full it migrated to your right final drive. there are two seals on the power director shaft that allow fluid to leak into the tranny. you need to split the tractor to fix them. if you have a Hyd PTO its also possiable for it to pass fluid. its normal for the final drive to get overfull when the tranny overflows. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2016 at 3:11pm
| There are two drain plugs for the transmission and differential. There are also two drain plugs for the hydraulic system. That makes four drain plugs. Then each final drive has a drain plug for a total of SIX drains. No way was there only 1 gallon of oil in the hydraulics. Your clutch pressures would have been fluctuating and power steering intermittent. |
Posted By: rw
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2016 at 5:08pm
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Years ago inside the rear end housing of our 190xt a bolt backed out of the axle shaft and pushed a plug into the housing and that let oil go into the final drive housing. We fixed it easy enough. I doubt it is the only tractor that this ever happened to. The experienced mechanic at the dealer said it was not really a big deal if we left it out and ran the final over full with the wrong oil. I was not convinced that this was true so I made the repair in our shop. |
Posted By: DanWi
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2016 at 9:02pm
| rw I had that happen to my 190 also right side, the outside axle seal kept leaking removed pto housing and tightened bolt and replaced cap, changed fluids and good so far. |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 7:13am
| When I bought my one ninety gasser, the power director slipped intermittently. The operators platform was broken up and sagging causing the power director linkage to not to engage the spool fully. Fixed that up, and it's been rock solid ever since, for about 10 years now. Darrel |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 7:34am
| Generally, sagging platforms cause the issue in high side. Tractors with cabs that don't have supports going down to the rear axles are very bad at this. Older XT's only have 1/2" bolts supporting the platform at the front under the brake/clutch pedals. Later models had 5/8" bolts. I have seen 1/2" bolts broken off before. |
Posted By: farmboy98
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 10:50am
Well, I managed to get er tore apart, and discovered the problem as soon as i split the torque tube from the tranny and saw burnt clutch material splattered all around the inside of the housing. Needless to say I pulled the clutch assembly apart and found two broken discs, as well as a couple burnt separators. When is comes to replacing the discs, keeping cost in mind, is it recommended to replace all of the discs and separators or can I just replace the discs and plates on the high side? 
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 10:55am
| If you never want to work on it again, replace ALL discs with new 70261212 discs from a model 7000 tractor. You'll see the difference in the design change, so they'll never break like the old ones did. |
Posted By: farmboy98
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 10:59am
| Are there any other parts that should be replaced while the assembly is apart? Like sealing rings or anything? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 11:12am
| The 3 sealing rings on the nose of the clutch. The housing they slip into if it has ANY grooves in it from the sealing rings. The oil seal and gasket. (press seal flush with O.D. so as to not block the drain hole) Replace all sealing rings on both clutch pistons and two small Orings between the housing halves. Any separator plates that are warped, or just change them all and know they are new. Six little snap clips on the return spring plungers. Do NOT replace the large bronze bushing inside the front clutch housing, regardless of how bad it looks. I always replace the PTO shift lever seal and the lower PTO shaft seals. I just did a 180 clutch and $1,100 in parts. Yours will be a little more, probably $1500. |
Posted By: farmboy98
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 11:22am
| Eek, that's what I was afraid it would cost. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 12:04pm
| Welcome to the world of high finance. |
Posted By: farmboy98
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 12:35pm
| I guess I'll have to get making and selling a lot more firewood haha. While I have this thing apart, I want to take a look at the pto clutches as well. Before I brought it here, when I would engage the pto, which I should mention is hydraulic, it didnt engage smoothly like it always used to, it engages very abruptly. It doesn't slip at all, but its annoying having to use the foot clutch to engage the pto just to keep pins from shearing. Any idea what causes this? My best guess would be worn clutches. |
Posted By: joe
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 6:41pm
| If you want to save a bit of money, Tribco offers the 70261212 friction disc for a lower price. I'm not connected to them, just came across them while looking for parts for our 200, which someday I likely will fix. |
Posted By: dhs
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 7:35pm
| I also have 190 split and am replacing the seal on the power director. I am not sure what you mean by the "lower pto shaft seals". Are you referring to the 2 orings on the connector tube between the housing and the pto unit? |
Posted By: Kevin in WA
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 8:14pm
| I used the Tribco Kevlar lined 70261212 in my 190XT III and am very happy with it. |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 5:26am
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Here is a link to the Tribco part https://us-manufacturing-sales.myshopify.com/products/tribco-kevlar-clutch-disc-p-n-700-for-allis-chalmers-and-deutz-allis-power-director-clutch-aka-hand-clutch-shuttle-clutch  ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 5:28am
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The part number for the Tribco 7000 series Clutch is 700-153. This is .153 thick vs .120 for Part #700 ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: farmboy98
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 8:43am
| I guess this is probably a pretty technical question, but I really don't know how the power director actually works. I understand the whole hydraulic clutch concept part of it and whatnot, but as far as how you actually get two speeds out of it I am pretty lost, anybody able to explain? |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 9:09am
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THE pd Is 2 separate clutch packs driven at different speeds from inner and outer input shafts. the two shafts are are driven at different speeds from gears in the torque housing above the pto drive gears and or clutch if applicable. apply pressure to a clutch and the trans input is connected to that particular shaft while the other rotates freely. moving the lever applies either clutch or neither in neutral.
by two speeds i mean, one is direct driven and the other is underdriven from engine speed ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: farmboy98
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 9:17am
| Oh ok, that makes sense now! I was wondering what the other shafts were for in the torque housing. Thanks! |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 10:43am
| High side (direct drive) is the rear clutch and turns engine speed. The front clutch is low side (under-drive) and thru the miracle of gearing, is 20% slower than direct drive. The intermediate gears, as they are called, are extremely reliable and also provide for the PTO drive. |
Posted By: farmboy98
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 10:59am
| Ahh ok, why do they put less clutch discs on the high side vs. the low side? Is it just because of the higher amount of torque you can use in low range? |
Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 11:10am
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I am not an expert on the 190 hydraulic PTO, but ours (we have two) have never engaged "softly" I do not believe it is designed to. You can feather it in based on how you pull the lever up, the slower you go, the slightly more feathering you get, but I only do this for light PTO loads, like empty augers, or a small rotary mower. Anything heavy, gets the foot clutch. ------------- Still in use: HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 11:13am
Higher RPMs on the output side of the transmission with same input HP = less torque on the entire drive line, so fewer clutch plates for the higher gears.
------------- Still in use: HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
farmboy98 wrote:Posted By: farmboy98
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2017 at 9:09am
| Okay so I believe I got all the parts I need ordered to get it put back together. When putting the clutch discs and plates back in, is it a good idea to oil them up before assembling the clutch housing being that it is a wet clutch? |
Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2017 at 9:31am
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yup, ALSO - anytime we find range plates broke we do the following check - Have someone depress the foot clutch enough that the two shafts driving the PD clutch can be turned - with some effort or drag on the foot clutch. Slowly turn the shafts by hand and make sure the shafts turn freely and smoothly . As Dr said the gears are reliable , but, we have seen in rare occasions a tooth break off or bearings loosen to cause a binding or rough spot - this hammering will break the old style or round off the teeth on the new style if a problem exist. EZ to check for. As to engagement, we always used the hand clutch lever to feather a start. Old dealer just taught dad and customers to do this - we put over 4000 hours on a xt before pd clutch had to be gone into - that was caused by a pump issue I feel, and it still had the old small center oem pressure plate in it. Later 200's had a different valve to cushion shifts..
Too bad the design of the control didn't allow for easier engagement.
------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |