D15 temporary repair?
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Category: Allis Chalmers
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=129969
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Topic: D15 temporary repair?
Posted By: Dan73
Subject: D15 temporary repair?
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2016 at 12:18pm
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My d15 just started pumping the hydraulic oil out of the shuttle clutch and into the transmission. I am sure that is where my oil is comming from as the torque tube is low. Now I have always been a fan of running gear oil in the transmission not hydraulic oil. But given that my d15 has a loader which needs a set of curl cylinders repaired and I want to use it to clean out my barn before the barn freezes for the winter. Well I really don't have time to remove the loader and split the tractor. I see two options. One full the shuttle clutch section and use it as in for a day or two to clean out the barn. Then there is the winter snow and wood to get out as problems so not really a good option I have no idea how fast the oil actually will empty out of the torque tube. Other option I have read about people running hydraulic oil in both in a 170 and piping the drain plugs together. I know this was just discussed here recently. Anyway wanted to see what people think abiut doing the joined drain plugs with hydraulic oil in both sections on a d15.
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Replies:
Posted By: den/southern illinoi
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2016 at 4:19pm
My question is are you sure the problem is the seal or could it be the hose
to the rear ram. Not sure everything is the same in your situation but I got a Series 3 D 17 in that had the same problem...hydraulic oil going into the rear compartment. Turned out that the hose from the aux block to the internal ram had gone bad. I checked out the idea that it was the hose or ram leaking by removing the feed line on the left side in front of the foot clutch and forcing air thru the line. You could hear the bubbling in the rear compartment. Opened it up, replaced the hose last Saturday and all is well. If your problem would be the same it's an easy fix compared to splitting the tractor. Just my thoughts on it. Den
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Own 4 wheel 20, 2-5015, 5020 and associated equipment and 2 electric forklifts.
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Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2016 at 4:20pm
that sounds like a reasonable solution to get thru the winter. I would monitor both levels every hour for 3-4 times and make sure it works. Is the normal mode of failure a shaft seal or a cracked tube// hose ?
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2016 at 4:23pm
we had the same hose failure on a D17-3 about 20 years ago that Denny described above... that's why I asked if your sure its a seal ?
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2016 at 4:28pm
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Den I know it isn't the hose because my 3 point lift is plumbed into the loader as the belly pump didn't work the oil is mixed between the clutch pack and the transmission both have mixed gear oil and transmission oil so I am pretty sure it is a bad seal.
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Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2016 at 6:06pm
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I've seen a field expedient repair. consisting of a hose, connected between the 2 compartment's drain plugs... Likely the hose to the ram, has a leak in it, thereby taking hyd fluid from the front, and pumping it into the back, each time you lift the loader, if it is connected at the remote outlet...
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Posted By: Mikez
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2016 at 10:03pm
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Our D-15 does that to. How do you check to see if its the hose or the seal. Thanks
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Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2016 at 10:10pm
Which section of the torque tube goes low on oil? On mine I don't have a working belly pump so mi loader frame is plumed to a separate control valve into the lift cylinder. If the hose was bad my loader frame would loose oil. But on mine when you run it and check right away the clutch pack will be low on oil and has gear oil mixed in with it. The only way I can see for gear oil to get back to the clutches is for there to be a bad seal. If the hose is bad your belly pump will be what runs out of oil because that is what is pumped into the hose.
I am going to connect the two drain plugs and run hydraulic oil in both. I know you can't run gear oil in the clutch it will gum the clutch up.
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Posted By: Mikez
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2016 at 10:16pm
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Oh ours doesn't have loader. I can't remember exactly but the two compartments under seat. One fills the other. And I remember long time ago when started in cold for snow plowing to warm up it would foam out one of the breathers. Dad always transfers the oil back to the low side
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Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2016 at 10:22pm
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There are 3 compartments in that area. One with a fill up beside the belt pullie on the right hand side. One with a dipstick beside the dash as a hex nut on the left and one beside the shifter. If if the one by the belt pullie is low then the hose is leaking. If the one by the dash is low then it is a seal or so I am assuming.
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Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2016 at 10:34pm
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Back in the day my uncle had a ser3 D17 that needed the ram hose fixed twice in the limited years he had it
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Posted By: wayneIA
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2016 at 1:35am
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On the oil types, I just use trans/hydraulic oil in each compartment for the torque tube, hydraulics, and transmission on my D 17. I've heard of some people saying that the thinner trans/hydraulic oil will cause a little more gear noise than the regular 90 weight, but I haven't noticed. For the stop gap until you can repair the leak, like you and others mentioned you could drain the 90 weight and refill everything with the trans/hydraulic oil to get by and keep an eye on the levels. If your axle seals are getting bad, they may leak a little then since the oil is thinner than 90 weight, just FYI if you notice them leaking with the new oil.
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Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2016 at 3:34am
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There is such an improvement in gear and hydraulic oils I don't think you'd have a problem running hydraulic oil in everything. I don't know about mixing them, but you're not plowing or doing something like that to increase wear. It took me a while to accept the idea of running 50 wt. synthetic in over the road trucks trans. with their HP and weight, but it works. It's not unusual to see one with a million miles on it and still running fine. Of course a lot of it depends on the driver. If it doesn't get hot you've not got a problem.
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Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2016 at 5:19am
Thanks guys. I did replace the axle seals when I went through the tractor rebuilding it because the brakes where bad and it needed to come apart anyway. Sadly I think the seals that are between the torque tube and the transmission are the only ones I let my brother talk me out of changing while we had it apart. I guess that is just part of the cost of advice I would call bad. He would call it good because it was 4 years ago that was apart but it is really the first year I have used the tractor. Oh well life goes on.
Good comment on the transmission oil. I don't have a reason to say it won't work with modern oils I mean I know in the number serries they use it from the start. Just hard to convince myself there is a reason to change over to hydraulic oil in the transmission if it has been there from the factory like in my d17 but in this case there is a reason.
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