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My B won't turn over!

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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=129391
Printed Date: 21 Aug 2025 at 6:44pm
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Topic: My B won't turn over!
Posted By: Syslogv4
Subject: My B won't turn over!
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 5:59pm
It's been a while since I'd used it but I went out to start the tractor and it makes a loud clunk noise (starter engaging) but doesn't turn over. I tried to hand crank it and I can't get it to budge. However if I take the spark plugs out, it'll turn over okay, but not as easily as it used to. No water or oil came out of plug holes.

Starter works fine when removed and I've got new battery cables.

Not sure what to do. I need to bush hog before winter.



Replies:
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 6:03pm
does the starter crank it over with the plugs out ?
Did you remove the ground screw on the starter and wire brush it for a good ground ?


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Like them all, but love the "B"s.


Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 6:05pm
OOPS, I missed the part about the hand crank does not work... that's not good... must be mechanical, not electrical........... pull the starter OFF and try to turn motor over by hand?
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PTO lever not engaged ?  Push the clutch pedal down and block it.. does motor turn easier by hand ?


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Like them all, but love the "B"s.


Posted By: Syslogv4
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 6:07pm
It does the same thing with the starter out when I try to hand crank so I don't think that's binding. I just don't understand how it could do this with no warning at all. I checked the oil and it's good as well.


Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 6:17pm
Check the spring on the starter for a break or a screw loose.


Posted By: Syslogv4
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 6:22pm
It's getting dark out there. I'll take the starter off and inspect tomorrow, then I'll report back. Thanks,


Posted By: bradley6874
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 6:39pm
With the starter out take a pry bar and gently try to turn the flywheel backwards using the teeth on the flywheel if something is jammed it should back up and then when you take the crank and turn it SLOWLY a little bit again if it comes up solid if it does then you definitely have a problem

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You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul


Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 7:16pm
Do you have any bolts in the holes where the cultivators bolt fast to the bell housing that the starter drive could hit.      


Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by Dick L Dick L wrote:

Do you have any bolts in the holes where the cultivators bolt fast to the bell housing that the starter drive could hit.      
True! When I mounted my belly sickle mower, 1 bolt was a thread or two too long and it wouldn't turn over either.


Posted By: what66
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 7:54pm
check the starter mine jammed in the fly wheel a few times .
Pull the starter out and put it back in if it lines up it should be ok.


Posted By: Syslogv4
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 5:26pm
I pulled the starter and everything was intact. I removed the plugs and tried to use a pry bar to spin the flywheel in reverse but it won't budge. I tried to turn it over with the hand crank and it didn't budge either. I removed the bolt from the cultivators but it made no sifference.

I guess it's now beyond my skill level. Anyone in NC want to buy a non-running B?


Posted By: AaronSEIA
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 5:33pm
Do you have the clutch disengaged? Possibly got put in gear while it sat.
AaronSEIA


Posted By: Syslogv4
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 5:36pm
The clutch is disengaged and its out of gear. Pto is also disengaged. It won't budge now when trying to hand crank even with the plugs and starter out. I might just try to sell and get another.


Posted By: Tcmtech
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 6:17pm
Leave the plugs out and shoot some penetrating lube in the cylinders then put it high gear and drag it around the yard a few times in gear while dropping the clutch hard.   

If it won't break loose doing that there's no point in letting the next guy have an easy fix. LOL


Posted By: Leon n/c AR.
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 6:38pm
Starter may be jammed into flywheel try putting it in third gear and try rocking it backwards and see if that frees it up Had to do that numerous times with our B when the flywheel teeth or bendix teeth were worn. Leon


Posted By: Kevin Purdie
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 6:57pm
What part of NC are you in.


Posted By: Syslogv4
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 7:11pm
I'm near Monroe, which is about 30 minutes east of Charlotte. About 2.5 from Fayetteville.


Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 7:12pm
I thought you had said it would turn with the plugs out. My mistake! I would do the oil in the plugs for a while. I would guess you have rings rusted to the cylinders. If it didn't get water down the exhaust it should not take long with oil in the cylinders to break down the rust.  Some say a 50%/50% mix of ATF and acetone works well. Probly any penetrating oil would work as well.  Personally when I was able I would tear it down in a New York minute to see what was going on.  Now I would make a trip or two around it with my walker then go back in the house, get in my lift chair and dream about what I should do. 


Posted By: Syslogv4
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 7:13pm
I'll try to drag it around and pop the clutch tomorrow. I hope it'll work! Thanks for the advice.

It would turn over with the plugs out yesterday! But it wouldn't today. I think it's possessed!


Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 7:15pm
Im guessing the governor / weights exploded.

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Like them all, but love the "B"s.


Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 7:17pm
Dragging it around and popping the clutch is a good way to bust things up permanently.
-
Pull the valve cover for inspection...
Then pull the governor out for inspection.


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Like them all, but love the "B"s.


Posted By: Syslogv4
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 7:22pm
Is there some sort of "how to" guide somewhere for the governor? I've done valve covers before but not governors. I'll hold off on dragging it around.


Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 7:46pm
A stuck valve can keep it from turning over as well. Normally if you could turn it over by hand with a stuck valve it will then stick open and keep turning over. Since you said it turned over hard I go back to the rust on the rings. It still wouldn't hurt to remove the valve cover and make each valve push down open by hand and see them come back up. Not many other things can go wrong setting other than rings and valves.  If it was in the bottom end you should have heard something going on before you shut it off the last time.

If you do find a valve that takes a lot to push it down put oil on the stem and keep working up and down until it frees up. If you do have dry  stiff working valves and no rust you need to find out why you are not getting ample oil to the rocker arms.  If it is dry you would need to remove the rocker arm stud at the back to make sure it has the groove in the stud.  One of the biggest cause of dry rocker arm/valve stems is when the stud with the groove is put in the wrong place. Just information in case, while I am thinking about it. I am not nailing your problem. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pushing down hard is a relative term. Should have said (pry down hard) Valve springs are hard to compress by hand by them selves.


Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 8:25pm
Forcing a stuck engine to turn when the sticking is the piston  is almost guaranteed to bend that connecting rod in its weakest direction that then makes the piston and rod bearing bind more and soon that rod will break and the remains often makes a new crankcase inspection hole in the block or the oil pan.

Gerald J.


Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 8:51pm
I think checking the governor weights id a very good idea. They can break and fall between cam and crank. So far I wouldn't jump the gun and get rid of it. Sometimes a flywheel bolt will break and wedge between the flywheel and block locking them up. And as others have emphasized, DON'T PULL IT!


Posted By: bradley6874
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 11:33pm
Ok see if iam reading this correctly your very first post says it turns over with the plugs out by hand but it's stiff is that correct


Posted By: Syslogv4
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 6:22am
It did turn over very stiff with the plugs out but now won't turn over at all. The change was over 24 hours.


Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 8:56am
If you haven't already done it, put some sea foam in each spark plug hole and let're set for a day or two. Then with you're pry bar start working it back and forth.


Posted By: Syslogv4
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 8:56am
Update!

I removed the governor and inspected it, weights and teeth are good.

I sprayed penetrating lubricant in the cylinders last night and again this morning. I tried the hand crank again and after a little force, it's now turning over again and it's much easier. I guess water got in there and rusted. Now what do I do from here?


Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 9:18am
Put everything back together and run it. It will be fine.


Posted By: Syslogv4
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 10:47am
I put it all back together and it's doing what it did the first time, turns over easily with the plugs out but not easily with them in. I tried the starter and it will turn it over twice with the plugs in then stops.


Posted By: Bill Long
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 10:56am
GREAT!!! Love to hear my favorite running again/
Dick L,  You are the best.  Sorry I will never get to meet you.
Good Luck!
Bill Long


Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 11:01am
Take the plugs out and spin it over a while with the plugs out after putting more oil in the cylinders.  Check for oil pressure while it is spinning over.  If you don't see oil pressure you need to prime the pump and do the same again. You need fresh oil everywhere it needs oil.

 


Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 2:09pm
Keep the battery charged. It will need all it's juice to get her to spin and start. If you can get her running then let her run as it will loosen up the more it runs.

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1957 WD45 dad's first AC

1968 one-seventy

1956 F40 Ferguson


Posted By: Syslogv4
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 8:06pm
It is building pressure but the starter won't turn it over more than once or twice with all of the plugs in. If I remove one plug, it'll turn over fine with the starter... Doesn't matter which plug I remove. Also, even though I've rewired it and have power to the coil, it doesn't have any spark.


Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 8:38pm
Do you have a distributor or magneto?


Posted By: Chalmersbob
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 9:52pm
Did you use heavy enough wire for the battery cable? 0 or 00, no # 2 or lighter.
If it is now turning over it should be safe to pull start it. 
Do as Dick said, oil in the cylinder will make it turn over easier, but don't fill the cylinders as that will also lock up the pistons when you try to spin it. Best to put oil in the spin it withe plugs out before installing the and towing it. LOL Bob


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4 B's, 1 C's,3 CA's, 2 G's WD, D14, D15, B-1, B10, B12, 712S,


Posted By: Syslogv4
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2016 at 3:46am
I do have #2 battery cables. I couldn't find any 0 at the pets store. Although it did come with #2 when I got it and I never had any issues with it. It's a distributor and converted to 12v


Posted By: sherman
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2016 at 7:21am
A lot of good advice here. I would try the following and if it doesn't work then you can sell it.... If ever you suspect water/coolant in motor, drain oil out first fully, refill with good oil, you may see how much water comes out from the pan and may be able to save the oil while it runs a while and then change it and filter later.
The rings likely stuck from water in exhaust or condensation.(once its fixed again, best to start it every couple months or so....
best way to limber up is to use pb blaster or seafoam in spark plug holes and let it soak. use a half a can+ on all 4 cyls. If you drained the oil all out plug the pan now. keep plugs out. next remove rocker cover. let sit a day or two.
next crank engine over by hand and ensure all valves move up and down well when you do so, look for a stuck valve, some left over lube might come out plug holes, if it turns easier then drain pan again add new oil and crank with the starter plugs out. if still stiff, you could spray more blaster in plug holes with oil in pan and tow it around for a mile or two till it loosens up.
the spark issue is probably corroded points or bad ground to points?,with key on use a screwdriver to open.close points while seeing if you get any coil spark... it could also be your coil....if you get some spark, try to clean them up or get a new points set. some people never say to wire wheel or emery cloth them... hey if it gets you spark you can replace them later, I like bead blasting them myself. good luck,
pound per pound one of the toughest, best tractors ever made.....
sounds like you are in a humid area that has a lot of dew...



Posted By: Tcmtech
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2016 at 10:39am
Originally posted by Syslogv4 Syslogv4 wrote:

I do have #2 battery cables. I couldn't find any 0 at the pets store. Although it did come with #2 when I got it and I never had any issues with it. It's a distributor and converted to 12v

Got a volt meter?

If so, what's your battery terminal and starter terminal voltage when trying to crank it over. 

You may have a weak battery, bad cable connection or a near dead starter (stuck brush maybe) if its not cranking over on a 12 volt conversion. 


Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2016 at 10:46am
Just for grins and giggles, look inside the inspection hole for the clutch. Mice can drag in an unbelievable amount of stuff if there's enough of them. One good big mouse condo could be preventing the flywheel from turning easily.

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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford


Posted By: Syslogv4
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2016 at 4:02pm
This afternoon I went out to try to figure out why I wasn't getting any spark. I hooked up a multimeter to the alternator and hand cranked the engine. I got nothing. Is there a way to test it without having a good battery? Or should I just bite the bullet and buy a battery?


Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2016 at 7:09pm
Jumper cables


Posted By: Syslogv4
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2016 at 7:24pm
Even with jumper cables it has trouble turning over unless the plugs are out.


Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2016 at 8:10pm
I say starter is the trouble. My 8N was that way, then one day it just gave up the ghost. $20 later I had it rebuilt and to this day it runs like a new one! There was about 1/2 cup of dirt and corrosion came out of the thing when I took it apart. I put in new brushes and springs, and polished the armature a little bit. 

But speaking of engines being stuck, a friend of mine had a stuck WD45 a few years ago. He tried everything to get it unstuck, and nothing worked. One day his cousin (Huge guy, about 6'7", 300 lbs, and strong as heck) came over and said, "Gimme that crank!" He put the crank in, and jerked up once, lifting the front of the WD45 up off the ground in the process, and it broke the engine free! They hooked the battery up and it started right up! Been running it for several years now. 


Posted By: Tcmtech
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2016 at 8:55pm
Originally posted by CrestonM CrestonM wrote:

 

But speaking of engines being stuck, a friend of mine had a stuck WD45 a few years ago. He tried everything to get it unstuck, and nothing worked. One day his cousin (Huge guy, about 6'7", 300 lbs, and strong as heck) came over and said, "Gimme that crank!" He put the crank in, and jerked up once, lifting the front of the WD45 up off the ground in the process, and it broke the engine free! They hooked the battery up and it started right up! Been running it for several years now. 

Some years ago I got a buddies old Farmall M that sat  outside for 20+ years unstuck with a 3 foot pipe wrench on the crankshaft and 12 volts to the starter followed by rocking it back and forth in 5th gear with a skidsteer chained to the draw bar until the engine would make a full turn without excessive binding.  

After it was loose we put in new plugs and ignition related components, cleaned out the carburetor and fuel line, changed fluids and drove the old thing around for a good hour without it missing a beat!  As far as I know he still runs it now and then and it has yet to ever give him trouble.     Cool


Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2016 at 10:28pm
I repeat, forcing a stuck engine over is a proven way to bend a connecting rod sideways that will add binding of the piston and the rod bearing leading to breaking that rod when running and the broken end of the rod often bashes a hole in the oil pan or block.

Gerald J.


Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2016 at 4:26am
Originally posted by Gerald J. Gerald J. wrote:

I repeat, forcing a stuck engine over is a proven way to bend a connecting rod sideways that will add binding of the piston and the rod bearing leading to breaking that rod when running and the broken end of the rod often bashes a hole in the oil pan or block.

Gerald J.

Is it stuck if it spins with the plugs out?


Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2016 at 4:41am
Originally posted by Syslogv4 Syslogv4 wrote:

Even with jumper cables it has trouble turning over unless the plugs are out.

Your question was how to check for spark. If it spins with the plugs out then check for spark with the plugs out with jumper cables. 
However you can check for spark without spinning the engine using only a screwdriver. With power to the coil, open and close the points. 
With a probe light check for power entering the coil, then check the coil out, if power there then check at the wire at the points. If you have power and opening and closing the points does not produce a spark you have either bad points or the points are insulated from ground. If you do not have power out of the coil you have closed points or you have a shorted out condenser.  Or at least a short to ground from a bare wire or something. Could be where the wire goes thru the distributor.    
 If you do not get power out of the coil with power going in then remove the wire from the out side of the coil and check for power. If no power out get a different coil.

When I was buying dead tractors I took a jump battery, a #14 wire with a clip on each end, a screwdriver  and a can of starting fluid. I clipped onto the coil from the jumper pack with the wire and clipped the jumper pack ground to the tractor. I then used the screwdriver to check for spark.   If I had spark I jumped to the starter and shot starting fluid into the carburetor to see if they would run at all. 


Posted By: corbinstein
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2016 at 7:10am
have you tried pull starting it in 3rd gear?
if it starts that way,  then you might just need a starter as the starter can drag your voltage down enough that it won't start....

Otherwise, points, condensor, coil.  
key on:  voltage to the coil, voltage to the points with the points open... 
none with the points closed.  
if voltage to the points with them open AND none with them closed, then it should run as long as the coil secondary is good.
otherwise clean your points, or jump the battery to the coil....  or both.
Don't spend much time with the points closed and the engine not running as that can burn something up..... 


Posted By: Tcmtech
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2016 at 9:58am
Originally posted by Gerald J. Gerald J. wrote:

I repeat, forcing a stuck engine over is a proven way to bend a connecting rod sideways that will add binding of the piston and the rod bearing leading to breaking that rod when running and the broken end of the rod often bashes a hole in the oil pan or block.

Gerald J.

It depends on how stuck the piston is and how much force is used to try and break it free in relation to how stoutly built the individual components are. Ermm

For a reference during the power stroke a typical engine can easily see peak cylinder pressure 7 - 8 times its cranking pressure which even on a low compression engine could easily be 500+ PSI  http://performancetrends.com/Definitions/Cylinder-Pressure.htm

Multiply that by the piston area and even  a small engine like what B has is still seeing at least two tons of force being put on a connecting rod during every power stroke at high loads without doing damage. 

To take it further given the ~1 3/4 inches of  leverage that works out to a minimum peak crankshaft torque of at least ~ 600 foot pounds at 90 degrees from TDC. 

So can a push rod or crankshaft be bent by forcing them?  
Yep. Obviously it happens all the time but not from a guy using the hand crank nor the starter, not even likely by dragging the tractor in high gear, working against a dead locked engine.  
Even less likely so if multiple pistons are stuck being some of the connecting rods would be under tension while others are under compression even if they were all only a few degrees off TDC or BDC where the crankshaft would have maximum mechanical advantage. 







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