B torque tube drive shaft not grabbing?
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Topic: B torque tube drive shaft not grabbing?
Posted By: CrestonM
Subject: B torque tube drive shaft not grabbing?
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2016 at 10:35pm
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I split my B over the weekend again, and when I pulled the engine off, it pulled the drive shaft out of the torque tube about a foot. No problem, just tap it a little to loosen it up, slide it out of the clutch assembly, then slide the shaft back into the torque tube. Or at least, that's what I did when I split it the first time. This time when I slid the shaft back into the tube, it wouldn't grab. I pushed it in and turned it a few revolutions by hand with the tractor in gear, but it never got hard to turn. I tried pulling it out and back in several times while turning it, because I thought maybe the splines didn't line up, but that didn't work. I never had trouble the first time I split it. What could be the problem? Thanks
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Replies:
Posted By: orangereborn
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2016 at 11:24pm
| Newer or older than 1942? What is the serial #? over 55500? Dale.. |
Posted By: Hubert (Ga)engine7
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 7:29am
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Sounds like you may have pulled if out far enough for a gear to come off and drop down in the transmission. More work!
------------- Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God. |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 7:36am
| I'm surprised it doesn't have a retaining ring somewhere to keep the shaft in place. Go to the AGCO site and lookup the parts manual and see what's on the other end of the shaft. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 7:37am
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It is a 1942. S/N B58292. Last time I split it, I pulled it out as far as it would go because I thought, "Well, I'll just pull the whole shaft out and use it as a clutch alignment tool!" Except it didn't work. It didn't come all the way out, but it slid back in, and with a little wiggling, it clicked back into place. Now this time, it won't "click" back into place. Hmmm....
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Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 7:46am
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Looks like shaft on my tractor slips into a splined sleeve that's held onto the transmissions shaft by a cotter key. The other shaft has a u-joint on it, and I wouldn't think a U-joint would pull out. Here is a link. http://www.agcopartsbooks.com/PartsBooksN/Viewer/book.aspx?book=agco/79001543" rel="nofollow - http://www.agcopartsbooks.com/PartsBooksN/Viewer/book.aspx?book=agco/79001543
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Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 8:11am
| I see what you mean. Looks like neither one should cause a problem unless the whole u-joint pulled off the shaft, and I'd think you'd have notice that. I'd say the splines just aren't quite lined up correctly, but I bet someone really good with B's will know more. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 8:21am
| I would think that too. Last time I just pushed it in, twisted it a little, and it slipped right in. Now I've spun it several revolutions both ways, and nothing. |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 8:42am
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I would say instead of spinning it'd be better to push all the way in, then pull out just a little, rotate the shaft just a little, then push in again. You're trying to search and find the point where the splines mesh. Hopefully there's not one spline that's wider than the others so the shaft has to be in one certain position. Sorry if I'm just repeating what you've already done. Changing a truck tranny once(maybe it was a rear axle can't remember) we could NOT get the small splines to go. We finally beveled them down a little on a grinder and cleaned then up to help get them started together. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 8:44am
| The thing that puzzles me is it went together very smoothly last time. Now it doesn't want to go. |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 9:29am
| Sheer luck the first time. Since you pulled it off the stub shaft on the transmition you need to get it back on. It has room to fit beside the stub shaft and still turn freely if you have the shaft with a welded coupling instead of the u-joint. I have had to remove the torque tube from the transmition on one tractor to get the drive shaft back on the stub shaft there was to much buildup of grease dirt and bees nest to get it back together. It's suposed to have a cotter pin in it to keep it from sliding apart. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 10:46am
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Ok, so maybe if I try to move the shaft around side to side, it might go on the stub shaft? If worse comes to worse, what are the steps to split at the transmission? I'm 85 miles from the tractor right now, and I won't see it till Friday, so an explanation would be great.
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Posted By: wfmurray
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 12:06pm
| Had that happen on my B.It has a couplin and it had nothing to hold it on.Pull torque tube and you will probley find the couplin has come off both shafts. No problem to pull torque tube. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 12:29pm
| What all do you have to disconnect to pull the torque tube? Aside from the rear light wire. |
Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 12:54pm
| Separate the torque tube from the transmission so you can SEE what your problem is. You need to anyway. If you pulled the driveshaft out forward the cotter key is broke or missing. Having the cotter key in place is a must do. That driveshaft being able to move forward and back is asking for trouble. The splines on the tranny shaft end may be toast already. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 2:12pm
| So can I connect the engine to the driveshaft and torque tube , then split it at the transmission? |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 3:17pm
| VERY IMPORTANT block the hitch along with under the trany when taking the torque tube off the trany it can and probably will tip back causing sever pain or worse if it fall on you.there are four bolts holding the torque tube to the transmition, disconnect the brake control rods and take the bolts holding the end of the foot bar to the fender supports.If you still have the gas tank steering gear box, battery and pedestal on the torque tube it's heavy but can come off the trany with a cherry picker. You need to leave the engine off block the trany instead of the torque tube and split them the tail light wire will need to be disconnected but the rest is just remove and set aside. You can remove every thing and have it off in an hour or you can fight with it a long time some other method. From personal experience don't try to put the shaft on the trany and try putting it in with the torque tube already bolted to the engine. You'll never you get it through the throw out bearing and into the clutch disk and pilot bearing. And you'll be taking it apart again anyway. |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 3:40pm
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More splitting to be done young man. You are missing a cotter key that keeps the coupling in place. anyone know the saying-- I buy you book and buy you books and you eat the covers and -------- with the pages.   
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Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 4:18pm
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Thanks DickL Wipe your what? These Kids today need us Old Folks to teach them stuff they can't learn from a book. On the other hand a look at a parts book will tell you real quick there is a cotter key with a purpose that you can't get too without separating the torque tube from the transmission. What is with this grab and click BS? |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 5:14pm
| Thanks guys. I'm hoping I can get this done in a day, because we may or may not be combining Milo on Saturday, and I don't get home until Friday! |
Posted By: Chalmersbob
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 10:04pm
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if you have the U joint it may have swung out of alignment. I had this happen on one of my C's but it slid right back in. It didn't have the u joint. If will not hurt anything not to have the cotter pin installed it the shaft. Where can the shaft go? LOL Bob ------------- 4 B's, 1 C's,3 CA's, 2 G's WD, D14, D15, B-1, B10, B12, 712S, |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 10:30pm
That's what I thought! Lol I pulled the shaft out a foot or two last time and used it as a clutch alignment tool. What else are you supposed to use?
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Chalmersbob wrote:Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 7:00am
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Use a driveshaft out of a scrapped B or C. I lone mine out lots of the time to friends who just don't happen to have one of their own. I'm going to let Dick L tell us why you need the cotter key since some AC engineer/mechanics say they aren't necessary |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 7:14am
I'm not saying I do or don't need the cotter key, just based on my small amount of B knowledge, I wouln't think it would be necessary. I'm probably wrong though it sounds like.
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Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 7:23am
| Sounds like the cotter key helps keep the coupler in place so the shaft doesn't pull out or the coupler fall off. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 7:24am
| That's what I'm gathering. |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 10:55am
Naw don't ask me! Ask the fellow that posted a while back that the drive shaft worked forward into the pilot bearing and stripped out the coupling. Over the years there has been a few others as well.
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Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 12:42pm
| I did not make that post about stripping the splines out of the coupling. But several years ago I was looking for a driveshaft to donate to the BUILD A B project that took place at the Haymaker AC Museum. First one I pulled from a C in a salvage yard. After splitting the torque tube from the transmission to pull the cotter key, I found no cotter key. I got it out and guess what. The splines were completely stripped out. The next one I pulled that had a cotter key holding it in in place was absolutely perfect. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 1:04pm
| I don't guess I understand how the cotter pin makes the difference between good splines and stripped splines. |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 1:20pm
| Because If the shaft slides forward into the clutch, it's walking out of the coupler. As it moves forward there's less spline area driving the tractor until it eventually strips them out. Instead of making say 2" of contact, there's only 1/2" of contact. |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 3:07pm
The put shear pins on smooth shafts. A cotter key would also work as a shear pin. I have used a cotter pin in a pinch for a shear pin on my auger. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 3:38pm
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It's kinda like having the bolt that holds the drawbar to the finals work out. There are only about 4 complete threads to begin with. If the bolt comes loose and you keep pullin with the drawbar, you will end up stripping the first thread or 2.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 6:56pm
| There are a few adding comments who think the coupling and the shaft are two separate pieces. They are, but they ARE WELDED TOGETHER and can't slide or be pulled apart. Parts book does not show this. Gives each piece a part number. I have 5 drive shafts on the shelf. All have the coupling welded to the shaft. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 7:31pm
Thanks for explaining that. I was one of those thinking that too.
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Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2016 at 8:01am
| So Ken...If the shaft and coupling are one piece, why wouldn't they slide together from the engine end, without splitting at the transmission? |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2016 at 9:05am
You have a three foot long piece of 1" steel and three inches to grab onto on the end. Getting the coupler back on the trany stub shaft takes luck. It must be oriented so the splines are lined up and centered on the shaft to go on. The cotter pin is just for assembly it keeps the coupler that's welded to the drive shaft from sliding apart. During operation it really doesn't have any use. You can't pull the drive shaft out of the torque tube from the engine end because the welded coupler won't fit thru the throw out bearing support tube. It should have taken you about an hour to remove the gas tank,starter,battery and taken two bolts out of the foot rest tube . Take four nuts off and slide it apart. I've just put a sawhorse under it slid it foward balanced with one hand slide the coupling together and stuff a long cotter pin in. I've put then back together without a cotter pin and not worry about it it'll be decades before it needs to come apart again. When you split one for a clutch and the shaft pulls out pu back in without turning it and you have about a 50% chance of success. Once you've turned the shaft it gets a hundered times harder to get it lined up. I've had my wife turn the belt pulley with the pto engaged while I wiggle the shaft and got it to go back together. I use the same method when trying to get the splines into the clutch disk. if I give her a clean rag she'll stand behind the tractor and turn the belt pulley for a few minutes if I ask nicely.
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