D17 Series 4 - hydraulics overfilled
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=128704
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Topic: D17 Series 4 - hydraulics overfilled
Posted By: Hockeygoon
Subject: D17 Series 4 - hydraulics overfilled
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2016 at 9:55am
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We bought a D17 series IV from my FIL's estate. My middle son wanted one of grandpa's tractors to restore as a 4H project. First thing we are replacing fluids - he passed 4 years ago and nothing has been changed since then and its maybe seen 10 hours of operation (on a grinder mixer) in that time frame. We drained the trans hydraulic system from 2 locations - under the pump on the right side, under the filler on the left side - apparently we missed the 3rd drain under the tractor. The fluid that came out was creamy yellow looking from lots of water. Right now the system is very over filled because we dumped in 20 quarts without fully draining it (as in it is filled to the neck of the fill hole). What problems are we looking at if you don't pump it down? Ordered an owners manual and got a CD so we will be printing that off at work in the near future. |
Replies:
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2016 at 10:13am
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Unfortunately I would say you should drain it all and replace again. If it came out milky I bet you still have some in there if you missed it all. I don't know much about a D17IV, but a WD45 has different compartments for hydraulic oil and gear oil. I bet the D17 does too. You manual will tell you what you need to know and I bet other on here will to. Welcome to the forum! I would love to have a D17IV |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2016 at 10:13am
| I'd be more concerned about you adding a different type of oil that was in it, and you now have mixed two types. Drain it down and start over. The hydraulic dipstick has two marks on it....ignore the lower mark and use the upper mark after standing still for 15 minutes on level ground. |
Posted By: Skyhighballoon(MO)
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2016 at 10:58am
Hydraulics/Power Director compartment drains shown in Photo. Transmission/differential drain is the plug under the rear axle - it might have had 80/90 gear oil OR trans/hydraulic fluid - either is fine but don't mix as Dr. Allis pointed out. Also consider changing power steering fluid (usually Dexron ATF). Might also want to dump a gallon or so of diesel down each compartment to flush it out. Mike  ------------- 1981 Gleaner F2 Corn Plus w 13' flex 1968 Gleaner EIII w 10' & 330 1969 180 gas 1965 D17 S-IV gas 1963 D17 S-III gas 1956 WD45 gas NF PS 1956 All-Crop 66 Big Bin 303 wire baler, 716H, 712H mowers |
Posted By: Hockeygoon
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2016 at 11:31am
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So the one under the tractor in the seat area is the "gear oil" and does not mix with the oil for the hydraulic system and the PD. We did not mix oils from the two different reservoirs. My understanding is the hydraulic/PD system held 20 or 22 quarts - at 20 quarts (5 gallon) the hydraulic system was over filled (by at least 4 quarts or so). I was being lead to believe all three drain points were for the hydraulic/PD system. Trying to figure out is the 20/22 quarts is correct. We plan on draining the "gear box" oil and refilling with 80/90 weight. Most likely this still has the original gear oil in it from the 1960s. What is the down side of having the hydraulic system overfilled? I know on older IH tractors people were encouraged to overfill the trans-hydraulic system. |
Posted By: Hockeygoon
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2016 at 11:33am
| By the way - nice looking Series IV Skyhighballoon. |
Posted By: Skyhighballoon(MO)
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2016 at 11:38am
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Power director and transmission compartments do not mix. On a Series IV the hydraulics/power director compartment holds 26 quarts, trans/diff is 24 quarts and power steering is 5 quarts. Make sure lift arm rams are down for the hydraulics/PD. Mike
------------- 1981 Gleaner F2 Corn Plus w 13' flex 1968 Gleaner EIII w 10' & 330 1969 180 gas 1965 D17 S-IV gas 1963 D17 S-III gas 1956 WD45 gas NF PS 1956 All-Crop 66 Big Bin 303 wire baler, 716H, 712H mowers |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2016 at 11:42am
| Overfilling (very much) of the Power Director/hydraulic system will heat the oil when operating at full throttle over a period of time, like in the field. |
Posted By: Hockeygoon
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2016 at 11:47am
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We drained from the two drain points for about an hour trying to get as much of the milky fluid as possible out with the filter removed. We did not lower the three point to the lowest position (actually it was at the mid point) so some transhydraulic fluid was still there. The IT manual I have is Series I to III - apparently the Series IV has a bigger reservoir. Any idea why 20 quarts would overfill a 26 quart system? |
Posted By: Skyhighballoon(MO)
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2016 at 11:55am
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Series I & II had separate hydraulic and power director compartments. Those two compartments were combined with Series III. Series IV holds about 2 quarts more than Series III I'm guessing as the old style internal high pressure hydraulic pump was removed from that compartment in favor of the belt pulley location standard pressure external hydraulic pump on the Series IV that's driven by a hollow quill shaft from the back of the flywheel to give it independent hydraulics. Got a strong light to look down in the compartment to see if you have any "sludge" in the bottom? That might be taking up room? 5 gallons of diesel would only be like $12 bucks to dump it in, let it soak a day then drain it out. Probably could reuse it to flush the transmission as well? Mike ------------- 1981 Gleaner F2 Corn Plus w 13' flex 1968 Gleaner EIII w 10' & 330 1969 180 gas 1965 D17 S-IV gas 1963 D17 S-III gas 1956 WD45 gas NF PS 1956 All-Crop 66 Big Bin 303 wire baler, 716H, 712H mowers |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2016 at 11:57am
| The series IV has a totally different hydraulic system than a I-III. Some other things changed as well. Series I-III was a high pressure (3500PSI) low volume system. The IV updated to a more industy standard low pressure (2000PSI) high volume system. Also the IT manuals are known to not be perfect. You'd be better with a genuine Allis operators manual, and maybe service manual. Make sure whatever manual that you buy are for a series IV |
Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2016 at 8:58pm
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So the one under the tractor in the seat area is the "gear oil" and does
not mix with the oil for the hydraulic system and the PD The plug under the seat area is the drain for the transmission oil (not hydraulics). Use hydraulic oil in BOTH compartments. IF you find your hydraulic compartment overfilling and your transmission fluid dropping during operation, the shaft seals between the torque tube and transmission need replacing - you need to split the tractor for that. ------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080 |
Posted By: Auntwayne
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2016 at 9:38pm
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I understand where you were coming from not trying to change the fluid twice, which you need to do, but.....why would you not "want" to change the filter at this stage of the game ?
------------- Dad always said," If you have one boy, you have a man. If you have two boys, you have two boys". "ALLIS EXPRESS" |
Posted By: Hockeygoon
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2016 at 8:31am
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Why would I need to change the oil in the hydraulic system twice? The hydraulic system was drained through the 2 drains until dry with a small amount of flushing. I was told there was a third drain but it is for the transmission. It has not been touched - yet. Unless it is leaking through the shaft seals as mentioned by Dseries4 the fluid from the two don't mix. The system was overfilled during fill up - it wasn't filled - operated and then found to be overfilled. We did shine a light in the fill hole and the drain below the pump and it appeared to be fairly clean - a real surprise considering the maintenance schedule my FIL followed (fix it when it breaks). While appearing to have lots of water it wasn't very dirty. |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2016 at 10:32am
If overfilled just remove the drain plug and let some out. Run it when you get it to proper level and then check color to be sure you don't need to drain and flush a second time. You may be good with just the one change.  ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: bradley6874
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2016 at 2:58pm
| Where did you fill it at under gas tank or just ahead of gear shift |
Posted By: bradley6874
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2016 at 2:59pm
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Where did you fill it just ahead of gear shift or under gas tank ------------- You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul |
Posted By: Skyhighballoon(MO)
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2016 at 3:09pm
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On a Series III and IV D17 you fill the PD/Hydraulics case in the dipstick left of the gear shift. Trans/diff fills in the dipstick right of the gear shift. There is no separate hydraulics fill on the right side under the gas tank like a Series I or II which had the PD and hydraulics compartments separated in the torque tube. Mike
------------- 1981 Gleaner F2 Corn Plus w 13' flex 1968 Gleaner EIII w 10' & 330 1969 180 gas 1965 D17 S-IV gas 1963 D17 S-III gas 1956 WD45 gas NF PS 1956 All-Crop 66 Big Bin 303 wire baler, 716H, 712H mowers |