2 14s plow with a B?
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Topic: 2 14s plow with a B?
Posted By: Jonny B 1938
Subject: 2 14s plow with a B?
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2016 at 7:46pm
| Was looking and comparing data for the JD B and Allis B, essentially the Allis is about the same weight with more PTO and drawbar HP. The JD rated at 12 and 19 and the Allis at 19 and 22, so my question is will it pull a JD trip two 14" plow? Has anyone done it? I already have a two bottom trip plow and would rather use a pull behind over adding all brackets and such for a mounted plow. |
Replies:
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2016 at 7:59pm
| I'm sure a lot depends on how the tractor is weighted, depending on the type of soil. I'm sure it would probably pull it in sandy ground. I'm not so sure about pulling it in our blue clay. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2016 at 8:39pm
| A #2 Allis (LaCrosse) plow with 14" bottoms was a big seller, in this area, for B and C tractors, so I see no problem with a B or C pulling a JD 2-14 plow, in most soils. Most people say that JD plows pull easier than AC's, anyway... |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2016 at 8:43pm
| Dad pulled a JD 2-14" plow with his C back in the late 40's weighted to the hilt. It really worked it in first gear. The B has a taller final drive gear which would be a disadvantage over the C. As stated it would depend on soil conditions and desired plow depth. |
Posted By: Jonny B 1938
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2016 at 9:18pm
| We have black dirt, same sand but not much. I have no weights yet but will be in the market for a front pie weight on the front axle. I am stepping up the HP and RPM so I will have the HP just wondering how much weight I would need. The plow has new shares and colters. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2016 at 11:29pm
| I have a 6' belly sicklemower on mine, and nothing else, and it pulls my 2-12 Oliver nicely. Once I got into some really tough soil (we have red clay) and the nose came up about 2'. |
Posted By: Eric B
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2016 at 1:07am
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My grandfather's 1955 B with 28 HP (British made) would handle 2-12's in any soil (in 2nd gear most of the time). Calcium filled tires and weights on front wheels only. When you have a pull behind plough of course you get no traction help from the implement and while the B had no traction booster system if you hit hard clay and a tire started to spin you just tugged a bit on the hydraulic 3 pt hitch and you got enough traction to get through a tough spot. It's important that your tires have good lugs/tread and you work on dry ground for best results. ------------- Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal! |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2016 at 6:05am
| I don't think there is enough room behind the axles for sand bags like Dad had on his C for extra weight. He placed planks over the drawbar and filled feed sacks with sand that leaned on the back of the final drives. The rear tires were filled and had a set of C weights on the inside of the wheels as well as a set on the outside. Front side weights also. I would guess he was under but close to 4000 pounds total weight. |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2016 at 6:35am
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Yep I pulled a Oliver 2 bottom plow with my B. I had front and rear wheel weights. Did good in previously tilled soil. Was a bit harder on new ground but first gear usually pulled OK. Only problem I had was if I hit a tough spot you can't simply lift the plow to get out of it. ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2016 at 8:22am
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As most have been saying it depends, A good B -125 will pull 2-14 in good conditions. An older 116 K engine wouldn't pull it except in sand. Dad 's C always pulled a 2-12 Cockshutt plow in stubble or stalks. We had a plow day back in the spring in some of the tougher plowing ground in our area and to top it off it was alfalfa sod. Two guys showed up with CAs and 2-14 and couldn't pull them, not even a little bit. 2nd gear would kill the engine and they would sit a spin in first. |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2016 at 8:52am
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Alfalfa is tough plowing ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: Jonny B 1938
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2016 at 8:54am
| The ground is pretty soft, sludged and turned every year. We do a plow day here in Peotone once a year, usually I use a three bottom with a JD A in third gear no problem. I an going to look for a front weight for the axle as my tractor does not have bolt holes on the rim, mine are riveted hubs with smooth disk. Might look for some 24" pie weights, also going with new 45 degree 24/11 rear tires. I suppose I could do safe fill on all four tires, rather not do sodium as it always eats the rims eventually. The JD plow I have has roto hitch so I can back it up also, I rebuilt it about 5 years ago with new bushings and springs all around. I just went out and looked at it and apparently Pops needed a coulter disk for the 820 plow so I am gonna need another disk and bracket. |
Posted By: Chalmersbob
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2016 at 10:37pm
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I pulled a 2-12 International plow on my B with weighted tires but no front weight. Never gave me any problems in our ground in second gear. Most farmers in our area say that when matching a tractor to plow, to go 1 bottom lighter then the manufacturer said the tractor would pull. I never paid any attention to that. LOL Bob ------------- 4 B's, 1 C's,3 CA's, 2 G's WD, D14, D15, B-1, B10, B12, 712S, |
Posted By: BrettPhillips
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2016 at 11:30pm
| I have a mounted 2-12" Wiard plow for my C, and it does well with front engine weights, front wheel weights, and the heavy rear wheel centers that were part of the steel wheel package. With an over bore engine kit it handles the plow fairly well in second gear in most soils. Tight clay and old sod require low gear at full depth. 2-14's will be a handful in tight ground, especially with the B's slightly faster gearing. |
Posted By: Bill Long
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2016 at 12:47am
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In the Maryland red clay rock we pulled one mounted plow. Worked fine and was great for small gardens. Yes, with the proper conditions you can pull two 12" plows and in some areas 14" plows but I think you are asking too much. If you do pull two you should have the engine in very good condition and at least weighted rear tires. Come to think of it my Uncle pulled two plows with and F-12 farmall. Good Luck! Bill Long
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Posted By: Jonny B 1938
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2016 at 8:38pm
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The engine is a complete upgrade over stock, the entire inside was completely worn out so everything has to be redone. I am working on some weights right now, hopefully I can get that taken care of. Thinking about beet juice for the rear but not sure if I'll need it, the ground is soft here and no rocks to speak of. Clay is deep here way below the frost line, you gotta dig about 3-4 foot before you hit anything solid. I might add I have notched disk coulter disks, the help cut a lot better too. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2016 at 9:04pm
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You have the plow, just weight her down the best you can and try it. It will handle it in light ground most likely. That being said, I will repeat a story Dad told me. He had a 47 C and a one bottom 16 inch trailer plow. He had a blacksmith "fix" the plow so it cut 18 inches. His next door neighbor had a B and a 2-12 trailer plow. Working the same kind of ground, Dad could plow half again as much ground in a day with the 1-18 as Dewey did with the 2-12 because Dad could run second gear and Dewey never got out of first. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Jonny B 1938
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2016 at 9:49am
| Working on two engine weights( I'll have to make brackets for those as I have a stamped steel radiator mount) and a front axle weight. That should give me enough ballast to hold the front end down I would think. The engine weights I am going to arrange to be removable so I only mount them when needed, the axle weight will just stay on there as it is an original option for the early B I have. I wonder how much weight it all is? I am thinking maybe 250 for the engine weights as a pair and 200 for the axle by the pics? |
Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2016 at 1:17pm
|
jonny B All you need to do is drill 5/8 holes in the axle pivot plate (FRONT SUPPORT) for a bolt and bushings or stack of washers the hold the front of engine side wights. I can send you a template to locate where to exactly drill the holes. Engine side weights were not a option in 38 that is why there are no holes in the pivot plate They weigh 95# each You can make your own template if you have a later B with the holes you need close by. Arched axle weights and engine side weights may be more front weight than needed. That weight up front doesn't transfer to the rear wheels until the front wheels come off the ground. Or almost come off the ground. If you were tractor pullin all that extra front weight may put you up a weight class. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2016 at 3:27pm
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To pull that 2-14 plow, you will need serious weight in the back end. Like fill the rears with windshield washer fluid and put a wheel weight on the left side, probably at minimum. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2016 at 4:37pm
| Where I come from, 2-14's is enough for a stock WD in alfalfa sod at 5 inch depth. |
Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2016 at 4:44pm
|
MMMM I never realized B finals were geared higher than a C. If this is fact why won't C gear combinations work in B finals? Looking at parts books I see this B final drive pinion 14 tooth Bull gear 67 tooth. That's it. Cs on the other hand had this C final drive pinions 19 tooth 15 tooth or 12 tooth C finals bull gears 69 tooth 82 tooth or 94 tooth 3 speed transmission gears and ring and pinion are the same in both the B and C From being in a few B and C final drives I believe some machining may be required to make C pinions work in a B because of axle length. Bull gears should be interchangeable. The way to eliminate or lessen wheel slip is to add as much weight to the REAR wheels and have the power to pull the weight your trying to pull. Add just enough front weight to keep the Front wheels on the ground. Pullers call it BALANCE. Tire size also must be considered. Bigger tires give you more square inches on the ground but will up your final drive gear ratio. I believe a B can be set up to pull a 2 14 moldboard plow in average conditions. Colters and slat plows are supposed to cut down on the power it takes to plow in tough sod Thanks Brett. Always nice to have you add your 2 cents. Where have you been hidin? |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2016 at 7:53pm
|
I remember the first One-Ninety sold in our area in the mid 60's. Back then it was considered a huge tractor. They guy that bought it bought a set of big plows (I believe they were 7 bottoms). His farm was very sandy and he pulled them easily. The first year he had the One-Ninety, he took it to our local fair for the (dead weight) tractor pull. They put all the sand bags and all the men they could pile on the old stone boat and he walked away with it. Sorry to hijack your thread! Just an old guy reminiscing... |
Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2016 at 9:28pm
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WF You brought a smile on my face with your reminiscing. Man that's lots of i's in one word. Like Mississippi |
Posted By: Jonny B 1938
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2016 at 10:09pm
| I was thinking about beet juice for the rear, something like 40 %. I did my dads Bobcat with it in the rear tires at 70% it made a huge difference in weight transfer. I have my brothers late C tractor laying behind the barn as an example to mount my front weights if needed. The funny thing about the JD B compared to the Allis B is the JD has way less HP ( like 10) and weighs in at 4000lbs. This leads me to believe that either the Allis is underrated or the JD is overrated? I have seen quite a few JD Bs plowing and they are slow pullers for sure, really the slowest tractor on plow day. I passed up a JD B with a Ford 9N and pie weights like it was running on one cylinder. Admittedly the Ford is no powerhouse either but a good utility / mower tractor. We have four Fords on my dads farm for mowing and pulling stuff around and a 3400 Ford gas With a loader but use his JD 820 or A for any dirt work. We have Ford implements but they never get used. I actually gave my dad my my 52 8N and got the B to restore, everyone had a Ford but no Allis Bs around at the time. I see a few around but not many, kinda unique, plus I like orange LOL. I drive an orange Bronco, now I'll have a tractor to match. |
Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2016 at 11:39pm
|
It don't get real cold here in the winter so I have about a gallon of antifreeze and water in my tires on the Massy 1260 work tractor and my CA puller. No liquid ballast problems in many many years. Easy to fill method if you have a tank sprayer. Calculate the gallons for your tire size and mix correct amount of water & green antifreeze in your sprayer tank for one tire.. Put your valve stem on a flat tire TDC. leave the core out. Take the spray wand off the hose and slip the open end on the valve stem and pump the ballast in. You may have to let the air pressure out once or twice to get all the ballast in. You want a air pocket in the top of the tire above the valve stem. I run about 4.5 PSI in 13.6 x 24 Firestones on my CA puller weighing 4000# |
Posted By: Jonny B 1938
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2016 at 12:28am
| I have dogs, antifreeze could go horrible wrong for me if I were to get a leak in a tire. That's why I like the beet juice, if it goes flat no biggie. A new tube is no big deal but my dog is more important to me than the tractor no matter what. |
Posted By: HD6GTOM
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2016 at 11:10am
| Would not do it in southern Iowa gumbo soil. Try it where you are and post back. Would scour the plow 1st before I tackled any hay ground. |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 5:20am
|
I found a picture of me plowing with the Oliver Plow and the B http://smg.photobucket.com/user/RangerCharlie/media/D17/IMG_2192.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 7:47am
| That's a neat photo, Charlie. When you raise the plow up, is there not a tail wheel that stays on the ground? My Oliver 2-12 is that way. It doesn't look like yours has the trailing tail wheel though. That would surely make it easier to back! |
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 8:05am
| How deep are you plowing Charlie? |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 8:13am
Mine was missing the tail wheel. I looked for one but never found one. Sold the plow when I found a 3 point one that I use on my D10/12. Local Oliver guy snatched it up quick. That was some hard pulling as the ground had never been turned. Made the B grunt! I think I was 8" deep in the furrow. That plow was hard to transport as it would wallow back and forth bad. It seems the tongue had a lot of flex? Does yours transport OK? I ended up using two straps to pull it tight on either side to keep it in line. ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
CrestonM wrote:Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 8:36am
I guess that could be a side effect of not having a tail wheel. Mine pulls very nice in transport, but you can't back it. If you try, it just makes a sharp right and jackknives. Seems the there would be a easier way...
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Posted By: Jonny B 1938
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 8:52am
| I have seen teeter plows but never used one, I would imagine a rigid hitch would be a must to controll draft. I have a caster wheel on mine and as long as I use the tongue with a pin in it I can back it up, it also has a crank on it to raise or lower hitch height to pull the caster off the ground when hitched up. |