Ring End Gap
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=124096
Printed Date: 29 Aug 2025 at 4:09am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Ring End Gap
Posted By: Charlie175
Subject: Ring End Gap
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2016 at 4:48pm
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Does anyone sell rings with over length gap? I need them for a W201 4" bore to fine tune the end gap. Like 4.005" or something like that. I see them for cars but not AG engines. ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Replies:
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2016 at 10:21pm
| My thought is to get an automotive one, shim the rings for side play and there you go. Oh, after you've filed the ends and fitted the rings. |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 3:53am
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"" shim the rings for side play "" HMmmmm,,,,? what youse talkin bout,,Leon,,,??? You might could use automotive rings "IF" the ring thickness is of the size to properly fit in the piston lands, which is not adjustable , and THEN file fit the ends in the cylinder they are goin into for optimum end gaps. In these low compression, low RPM engines, I'm not too sure you would be able to tell any difference in HP whether you file fit or not. MY SOP is to always fit every ring in the cylinder it is goin into, just to be sure there will not be any interference of end gaps. Hope this helps. 
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 5:44am
Not sure what is meant by side play but there are inserts available to
take up wear in the land area of each piston ring grove. The top ring is
the high wear area. The piston has to be cut and then the insert
installed. Used to be done a lot on automotive applications but
supposedly not recommended for heavy duty like a tractor. I've done it
to a gas 301 in Dad's XT years ago and it worked fine. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 6:01am
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Would it be possible to use rings for a 4.125 piston and file off the ends? If my math is correct, the (outside) circumference of a 4" piston is 12.5663" and a 4.125" piston id 12.9590. I know the "arch" of the ring would be slightly different, but very little. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 6:11am
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I wouldn't
------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 6:14am
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Doesn't a 350 chevy piston have a 4" bore? Are the rings the same thickness? I'm guessing they aren't.
------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 6:18am
| Use two identical thin automotive rings stacked in the same groove with the end gaps 180 degrees from each other. This might require widening the piston groove a bit to accommodate the two new thin rings. Done this dozens of times on puller engines. |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 6:54am
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I guess a .020 overbore ring wouldn't work either? ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 7:19am
To me you got to bite the bullet but it's real easy for me to spend your money.
 ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 8:38am
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your talking two different things here. If the ring is not thick enough for the ring groove, that is a big problem.......What Charlie is talking about is taking a stock piston which has a .007 ring end gap and putting into a worn sleeve that has a bigger bore and now has a .015 end gap ( I think this is what he is saying).
Charlie, I have just put new rings into the motor with a good honing. A couple have a tapered worn bore which is not ideal but works. I built a B a few years ago and left the end gap at .015 - .016 and it ran fine and don't burn oil. Like mentioned, this is not a high HP race motor .......... new rings, good hone, staggered ring gap will work. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 8:41am
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a new liner might give a .003 piston bore clearance ........ if its worn .003 oversize then you will have .006 gap on the piston and the ring gap will increase .010 MORE than stock ( circumference is 3.14 x diameter) ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 9:15am
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Hey Charlie,,,I know at one time,,you used to could buy automotive "oversize" rings in .010, .020 oversize that might let you do what you're thinkin about,,,?? You would have to go to a MOM and POP type parts store that would have that knowledge cause I doubt you will find that out in a Oreillys or autozone store. Rings for a 4" bore are rings for a 4" bore and the difference will be the thickness of the rings their selves relative to the piston lands. The differences will be the specialized rings of exotic metallurgy for HIGH RPM engines that would be overkill in these AC's. I think you could still do what you want IF your friendly parts store manager has the right BOOKS to will let you "browse" thru the ring sets available in small oversizes, to hopefully find a set with the right oversize to fit in the cylinders. I doubt the 4.125 rings can be made to fit in a 4" bore without breakin most of them during installation or on startup. "" Use two identical thin automotive rings stacked in the same groove with the end gaps 180 degrees from each other. This might require widening the piston groove a bit to accommodate the two new thin rings. Done this dozens of times on puller engines. """ WOW,,,!!! this is a very GOOD idea,,,,and talk about gas sealing touching on the upper 99% if not over 100%,,,!!! HMmmmm,,,now I'm thinkin bout my 406 maybe needin some lookin into,,,,,Dang,,,thas a great idea,,,,,!!!
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Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2016 at 2:24pm
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Hastings offers rings in .020, .030 and .040 overbore for these motors. But not extra length to fine tune the gap. Oh well, I might be over thinking things! ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2016 at 11:14am
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Then get the 020 over, and file fit them down. That is what gives the extra length to tighten up the end gaps. I personally don't obsess with end gaps, but I'm not looking for every last hp I can get either. I just make sure they are wide enough, and a good stagger, and go! Also, if you have .015" now, that's really only .003 more than you need anyway, right? Isn't it .003" per inch of bore? So really would be a lot of unnecessary work to tighten the gap up .003"! ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |