I guess we can put up or shut up
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=121846
Printed Date: 01 Oct 2025 at 1:47am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: I guess we can put up or shut up
Posted By: tbran
Subject: I guess we can put up or shut up
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 4:46pm
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Agco parts promo's just had a "weekly special" on tool boxes branded MF, Oliver, Challenger and MM - no AC. Soooo I fired off a very nasty email the likes of what has been expressed here many times. I received a response --------- <Hi Tim: We didn’t do Allis because as big a heritage as it is, our experience is that we don’t usually sell many of these items. Can’t speak for toys – just things like the tool box. I am always willing to investigate another potential sales opportunity. How many do you think you could sell? > So, the dealer net is $32 plus frt. unless we get enough true commitments ... we don't have a grip. Now I am sure we can't get in on THIS deal - but if a dealer had them for sale a $39 - how many of youse guys would pop for a 7 pound metal tool box with Allis-Chalmers logo on it? Evidently the Oliver, MF, MM and Challenger guys are???? ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |
Replies:
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 4:50pm
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How do you hear about the "weekly specials" ? ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Sam T-Ga
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 5:04pm
| I'll take 2. You got a picture and size? Sam |
Posted By: bdallman
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 6:20pm
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I'll take one!!! Brett ------------- 1954 CA, 1952 WD with Freeman Loader,1955 WD45, 1963 D19 Gas, 1984 620H, 1980’s AC Forklift, 66 All Crop Harvester, White Top Roto Baler, Misc S.C. Equip and AC Collectibles. |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 6:36pm
| yep...me too! |
Posted By: tornado8070
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 7:06pm
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Sign me up for 2! What crock of s@&t!!! ------------- 09’ DT205B, 08’ DT220A, 83' 8070 MFWD, 83’ 8070 85’ 8050 MFWD, 83' 8030, 82' 8010, 85’ 6080 MFWD, 84’ 6080, 79' 7020, 85' M3 RWD, 85' 920 diesel,AC C-50 forklift. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 7:26pm
| What do they look like? |
Posted By: AllisChalmers8070
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 7:29pm
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I will take 2! ------------- 180 190XT 7045 7060 S88 |
Posted By: Scooterboy
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 7:30pm
| Put Mahindra on it and I'll take one. |
Posted By: Tim NH
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 7:32pm
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I would take one. ------------- 1950 WD 1959 D14 1955 WD45 1976 7000 B 207 |
Posted By: tornado8070
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 7:47pm
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Agco rep came outta hiding at tha parts sale at my nearest dealer that I do bussiness with. As I stood there chatting in my vintage AC coat with the retired AC mechanic from the dealership I grew up going to with my father, he approached me and I was introduced to him. Now this individual grew up heritage Oliver in which I respect. As he commently very politely about my coat stating he was a Oliver man, I asked him straight up why the Orange got dropped? His comment was lack of sales. I proceeded to ask him how the new S series Gleaners were doing in sales. He said that they hadn't went into production due to low order numbers. I asked him if he kne Kevin Bean? He said on a professional level....yes. He then told me Kevin is retiring the end of the year or at least is planning it. Knowing this my guts are wondering how long before the Gleaner is badged Gleaner by Massey ferguson? Now back to the toolbox.....to a large company such as Agco for them to offer AC guys an orange toolbox with a triangle on sure ain't gonna make or brake them!!!!! Perhaps they wonder why Agco can't sell the best combine on the market today!!! Rant over!!!!! ------------- 09’ DT205B, 08’ DT220A, 83' 8070 MFWD, 83’ 8070 85’ 8050 MFWD, 83' 8030, 82' 8010, 85’ 6080 MFWD, 84’ 6080, 79' 7020, 85' M3 RWD, 85' 920 diesel,AC C-50 forklift. |
Posted By: Alex09(WI)
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 8:39pm
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I would take 2. If I could show a picture to my customers, some of them might want some also.
------------- www.awtractor.com A&W TRACTOR 920-598-1287 KEEPING ALLIS-CHALMERS IN THE FIELDS THROUGH THE 21ST CENTURY |
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 9:03pm
| Well,well. It seems to me there's a pound of jealousy here. Why would anyone buy a real good product apparently lock stock and barrel and not continue to build as is or continue a program of improvement? To me, just me prolly, jealousy is the strongest emotion out there. So Deutz being a good product thought they were the biggest duck in the puddle, and have been up to this point, so they set out to ruin the image of Allis Chalmers. They didn't win the war, but they saw a way to hurt a strong company. I absolutely am not taking sides here but that's just the way powerful men in business opporate. They have the gold, so they rule, and heaven forbid if someone gets in their way. Allis also had this problem, but it seems not to the extent of Deutz and didn't look over the horizon and see the storm on the way. Sometimes it's best to hunker down, let the storm blow over, pick up the pieces and just keep on keepin' on. But Deutz with their huge European market didn't have to hunker down as far and it didn't take them as long to recover. Plus they had the gold. I don't claim to be financial stratotician, but when Eisenhower became pres. in '54 dad told me he came right out and said there were 4 million to many farmers he said that's the end of life as we now know it. Give you one guess what happened. Corporate farming. That was the cloud beyond the horizon. This is the last thing I have to say on this subject,(thank God you say), but let me go on record as saying that I do not agree with overthrowing the gov. or resisting the established authority. That's God's decision not mine. Now you're saying,"I thought he said he was done". I am. Pfffft as our unknown friend would say. Leon R Cmo |
Posted By: JimIA
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 9:42pm
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Tim, You beat me to emailing them on the toolboxes. If you get them to make them I will try to talk the boss into ordering a couple. Jim ------------- An open eye is much more observant than an open mouth |
Posted By: Mikez
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 10:07pm
| Yea let us know. See if my agco parts guy can get some. Will it be made in the states. |
Posted By: Mikez
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 10:10pm
| That's why sometimes I will buy agco parts instead of cheaper aftermarket. Not sure if I'm right but I kinda feel by buying agco, they will see that the part is still being bought and keep producing them. |
Posted By: AllisChalmers8070
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 10:43pm
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On top of that Mike I just like going to the local dealer. ------------- 180 190XT 7045 7060 S88 |
Posted By: Mikez
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 10:49pm
| Yea me to and help him keep the parts line. |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 10:53pm
| If Kevin is retiring,,,, good bye Gleaner,,, they will be a Red Massey Ferguson with an Agco badge,,, |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 10:54pm
| Tim,you got a pic of any of the others? We can use our imagination on the color and logos.Can't hardly buy a metal toolbox these days. |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 11:36pm
| tell them to print on them "special addition" |
Posted By: 427435
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 11:56pm
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Put me in for one.
------------- Mark B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel, GTH-L Simplicity Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not. |
Posted By: Craig/insoh
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 12:12am
| I would like at least 2 maybe more!! |
Posted By: KY poorboy
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 12:22am
| Tim, Matt and I will take 4 if you can get them to do it. I'll be down in a couple days for parts too. Thanks |
Posted By: albatros_3
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 6:20am
| And I was just considering buying a toolbox to keep in my truck. I'll take one for sure. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 6:30am
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heck with the tool box WHY do they charge $60 for a D-14 manifold gasket !!!????? reminds me I have to order one from 'south of the 49th'..... Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: HD6GTOM
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 6:40am
| I need 1 for a 200 that does not have 1. |
Posted By: BrianC
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 7:59am
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I tried to find the weekly specials on the net, no luck. Maybe they mail a flyer to you, like Harbor Tools? I did find the toolbox (at no special deal) on their web site. http://www.agcostore.com/heritage-brands-minneapolis-moline-workshop-products-s/1884.htm" rel="nofollow - toolbox So surfing around the Massey Ferguson site, I see the 2600 line is now the 2700 line (I think emissions changes). Bad news is they dropped the 2wd option, now only 4wd. So your good old 2wd inexpensive small farm tractor options are now reduced. When it comes to heritage line tractors, I wonder how Agco's spare parts revenue is proportioned between Oliver, MM and Allis-Chalmers. Is it possible they sell more MM parts than Allis? |
Posted By: Play Farmer
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 8:34am
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OK...I'll ask; Why not just buy this from Harbor Freight - $17.99 before the coupon;  I know, this is a 17" box, not a 20", but they have other options, as does about every other hardware store. and this (or whatever other color you'd like) from Tractor Supply for $4.00; http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/majic-tractor-truck-implement-spray-enamel-11-oza-c-orange?cm_vc=IOPDP1" rel="nofollow - http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/majic-tractor-truck-implement-spray-enamel-11-oza-c-orange?cm_vc=IOPDP1 And this off of Ebay for $3.50;  You'd be under $24.00 all in and still have some paint left over.
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Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 8:43am
 If you had a toolbox, you'd need a latch on the inside so you could get out.
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Scooterboy wrote:Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 9:37am
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Ya know, I like cool stuff like anyone else, but as I'm moving down reading all the responses, I'm thinking the exact same thing as Play Farmer is. Why not just buy a tool box like he shows and put any AC logo on that you would like? For $20 bucks, you can have the design you want to. Put the diamond logo on or the new "A" logo. And, if you really wanted to be cool about it, if you don't find one that's Orange, ya paint it whatever Orange you like. PO1 or PO2. Then you'll have $25. bucks in it cause a spray can usually costs around $4.99. LOL! Does it really matter if its not from AGCO? JMHO ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: ryan(IN)
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 12:46pm
This is exactly why they aren't offering it. Don't get me wrong I was not happy with AGCO dropping orange and I don't like that they ignore it was a part of their history. That being said, a lot of the problem is that us allis guys have either boycotted, don't want to pay the price, or have some other reason for not going to AGCO for parts or things like this. If they aren't going to make money on it AGCO isn't going to produce it. This is a problem when parts go aftermarket because people buy from them instead of the OEM. Now granted I do not always buy AGCO because some stuff is crazy priced, but you have to look at the economics of it. If the part is moving in high volume then the part is going to be lower in price and it will still be available. Supply and demand is everything to a business and AGCO is no different. Now after all that, I would be interested in one if you succeed in getting them made. ------------- ryan 1984 8070 FWA,1979 7060,1975 7040,1971 190,1960 D-17D,1957 D-14, 196? D-19G, 1975 5040,1971? 160,1994 R62 |
Posted By: Play Farmer
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 3:20pm
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This is a catch 22; They'll never sell 1000 widgets until the price comes down, and the price will never come down until they sell 1000 widgets. Something has to give first. In this case, I suspect if Agco had priced their stuff reasonably to begin with the aftermarket never would have had a decent opportunity. I need to rebuild the lift cylinders on my 7000. The repair kit was quoted to by my local Agco dealer for around $35.00 plus freight. I found 1 of the 2 parts needed for $2.49, I know once I take the cylinder apart the other part will be less than $10.00. I can find the OEM parts on line for $25.03/set, plus shipping. Had my local deal offered me these kits for $25.00 each and brought them in on his stock order (no freight) I would have bought them. I would have gladly paid $25.00 each for the 2 kits I need, just because it would be easier. As it is, I'll measure up and order my own kit and save $50.00, or more, on the pair of them. I understand people need to make a reasonable profit to keep the lights on. The extra 29% my local guys wanted was more than I'd consider reasonable. They're doing it to themselves...
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Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 3:54pm
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I understand the issue from a supply and demand point of view. what gets me is they are gonna sell more MM, Oliver and Challenger than AC? AC was bigger than oliver and MM together. I wouldnt buy a $1 MF one to use for a chock block. ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: Play Farmer
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 4:32pm
 Hey now...I like my Massey too!  |
Posted By: BrianC
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 4:53pm
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Would be nice to have the real total statistics on production. As far as legacy, I just checked on the count of items for sale on Tractor House. This is not so scientific, but Allis count =459, Oliver count=195, Minneapolis Moline count=59, White count=1002. White was the last to shutdown? And someway, I think there is White DNA in today's Massey Ferguson. And since I have the numbers, International count=2356, Ford count is 1520. For brands still alive, Case IH=21,946, John Deere=62,745, New Holland=14,194 Kubota=5319, Challenger=1406, Massey Ferguson/Harris=5237, Mahindra=1279 Surprised me there is so much Case IH out there, and so few Massey and Kubota. Sum of Case and New Holland, slightly better than 1/2 size of John Deere. This is what I do when bored. But yeah, why not make an Allis toolbox, if they are bothering to make an Oliver and MM? |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 5:29pm
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Did you include AGCO Allis on the Allis search or discount the AGCO Whites on the White search. I know there were a lot more AGCO Allis tractors than AGCO White.
------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 5:38pm
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guys the tool box is not the issue - the perception is - and perception is reality to the reasoned - that why offer AC anything - it doesn't sell. Are we too cheap - one sees JD everywhere - why -it sells. ? . The issues is "if Agco offers AC logo "specials" will we buy it? there are few AC heritage dealers left - do the MF dealers and Cat dealers care about the heritage? IF we as dealers do not publish and offer heritage items - and if Agco doesn't the general public (less than 2% are involved in farming) doesn't get an opportunity. Then if we do - will it sell? I see both sides - but I know that the company does not do due diligence to promote the AC line. Their argument is we do not do it because it does not sell. Which comes first the chicken or..... ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |
Posted By: BrianC
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 6:23pm
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Didn't count the AGCO xxx. That count ts 440- 5 are Agcostar, 52 are Agco White. Also there are 92 Deutz Allis. Counting all AGCO responsibility (allis, agco, white, GSI, MF valtra, Fendt Sunflower, gleaner, challanger, fells |
Posted By: BrianC
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 6:27pm
| oops fired off to soon, but about 13,000 items on tractor house are legacy or current AGCO equipment. I assume they sell parts for all of them. Not bad. |
Posted By: DanWi
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 7:10pm
| tbran is right they can't sell it if they don't market it, They need to market it to sell it. We may not always like JD but they will paint anything green and yellow and market it as there stuff. |
Posted By: ACmowerguy
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 10:34pm
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A JD toolbox would also be in the $60 range. As for the Heritage Lines, AC probably has the best parts support. Lots of today's MF bearing and hardware numbers came from old AC part numbers. From one of my coworkers who used to be a parts manager at an AGCO parts dealer, many of the Oliver and Moline parts were dropped out of the system years ago. I have a neighbor (a Deere fan) who sells at farm toy shows as a side job. He says he can't keep enough AC stuff. Its in great demand. Sure its not JD or IH, but its far ahead of MM and Oliver in popularity, and not all AC guys are "too cheap" to buy one or make their own. I'm wondering if the lack of AC stuff has more to do with AGCO losing the AC name rights to Seawell? ------------- 10 various B-series garden tractors, AC Homesteader8, 416 hydro,710 gt, 914, 916H, 917H, 920D, and many misc attachments |
Posted By: VAfarmboy
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2016 at 12:08am
AGCO can't make a tool box with an Allis Chalmers logo on it because they don't own the trademark. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2016 at 5:42am
------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2016 at 5:52am
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My local dealer won't stock Allis toys anymore. They got a new parts manager and he claims Allis Chalmers toys won't sell. He has White, Oliver, Massey, MM and even New Idea toys but there is only one expensive precision or Scale model D15 on the shelf behind the counter that he said won't sell. I said that model has been out for many many years. Where are any new models? How about an LP version or a 210 or something different? Of course you can't sell me more of the same toys I already have. So I don't buy any toys from him anymore and haven't for 10 years or so. There have not been any new models to pick from. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: ACmowerguy
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2016 at 12:38pm
Could be old stock made before the Seawell buyout of Allis Chalmers Energy. ------------- 10 various B-series garden tractors, AC Homesteader8, 416 hydro,710 gt, 914, 916H, 917H, 920D, and many misc attachments |
Posted By: farmtoybuilder
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2016 at 3:30pm
Sorry Lonn Not many Allis toys are made by any toy companies! He can't order or sell them when there not available! TOMY is reissuing the D19 again in 1/16 this summer, and they have a few 1/64 items. But nothing Allis!Spec Cast has the most. And have done some 1/64 Agco Gleaners S series in different variations and an orange- mf fwa tractor. ------------- 5 different TT-10's,5 TT-18's Terra Tigers,B-10,2 B-207's,B-110,2 B-112's,HB-112,B-210,B-212,HB212,2 Scamp's & Homilite T-10. Still hunting NICE HB-112 & anything Terra Tiger & Trailers for them. |
Posted By: Allis180gas
Date Posted: 28 May 2016 at 1:13pm
| i am not sure if anyone mention this but the reason AGCO cant make any new Allis toys or tools branded with Allis is because there is a company in texas that is a contruction or energy base company that owns the name Allis Chalmers. and they can't use the name for whateverreason |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 28 May 2016 at 1:49pm
More than 6 years ago, when Allis Chalmers Energy still existed, some individuals got an OK from them to use the Triangle AC logo for there reproduction decals and clothing. AC Energy was bought out back in 2010 so I would bet the new "mother" company would have no problem with people using the logo. http://archerwell.com/seaw-merger-with-allis-chalmers-energy-inc/" rel="nofollow - http://archerwell.com/seaw-merger-with-allis-chalmers-energy-inc/ Agco was still badging tractors with Agco Allis when Allis Chalmers Energy was in business.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Allis180gas
Date Posted: 28 May 2016 at 5:14pm
That's what the parts guy at my dealership said so idk how true that is. |
Posted By: ACmowerguy
Date Posted: 28 May 2016 at 7:28pm
But "AGCO-Allis" is a different trademark than "Allis-Chalmers." ------------- 10 various B-series garden tractors, AC Homesteader8, 416 hydro,710 gt, 914, 916H, 917H, 920D, and many misc attachments |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 28 May 2016 at 9:00pm
Right, it has nothing to do with Allis Chalmers Energy, so why would somebody think AGCO can't badge a tractor with ALLIS on it. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |