1930's Ford "Wide 5" on a 60!
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=118643
Printed Date: 13 Jul 2025 at 6:51pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 1930's Ford "Wide 5" on a 60!
Posted By: CrestonM
Subject: 1930's Ford "Wide 5" on a 60!
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2016 at 9:31pm
|
Great granddad bought this All-Crop 60A new in '49. Somewhere between then and 1983 he had someone cut off the original hubs with bushings and weld on two 1930's Ford car "Wide 5" hubs and rims to the combine! Those things are pretty rare, aren't they???
Granddad told me that was a common thing to do, as welding on car hubs eliminated greasing the "troublesome" bushings.  |
Replies:
Posted By: Jason in MO
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2016 at 10:19pm
| i wouldn't call those rims rare, Volkswagen used them up till around 1968. Rumor has it that they actually bought the dies from Ford in the late thirties |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2016 at 10:35pm
| That's interesting. I wonder why they would do that, considering you can't use a tire machine to change the tires. Or at least, I don't think you can. |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 1:06am
| a lot of trailers today use that type of wheel...I steer away when I see them on trailers! |
Posted By: Alberta Phil
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 9:50am
| Creston, what diameter is that rim? It appears to be a split rim with an outer removeable ring. The car wheels were all one piece. That one is either a truck rim or a military rim. |
Posted By: GaryL
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 11:42am
VW ran wide-5s until 1967. The ones in the picture Creston posted a bit different. I know several other makes of vehicles ran wide-5s. 
An adapter is needed for wide-5s. About the only place that would be able to mount those rims is a shop that does RV tires. |
Jason in MO wrote:Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 1:06pm
|
I think there are tire machines that support by the rim just inside the bead, rather than the center. Balancing rims with the large bolt circle is most difficult. I've not found a tire shop with an adapter for balancing, so had to balance my flat bed trailer made from the frame of a '74 travel trailer by hand. With the wheel off the ground and the brakes backed off, I gave the wheel a spin and marked the top side where it stopped with chalk, and repeated several times. The wheels badly out of balance stopped about the same place every spin. I added weights on the top until the wheels stopped mostly randomly. Unfortunately used weights didn't stay on the rims very well on the road. That didn't take care of dynamic wobble unbalance but was a way to do a static balance. I found I had to mark the rims and the drums with paint because the drums were as much of a part of the lack of balance as the tires. Gerald J. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 1:24pm
I'll check the diameter this evening. Yes, it is a split rim. It could be military I suppose. Great granddad's brother was in the military and he brought home a lot of military stuff (Jerry cans, tools, tires, etc.) after he retired. How do I remove the old tires from it? just cut them off? They're no good anyway. Then the next question....how do I take the ring off? I watched a You tube video on how to mount a tire to a split rim, but they didn't say how to remove the ring. Thanks!
|
Posted By: Dnoym N. S. Can.
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 2:59pm
|
How do I remove the old tires from it? just cut them off? They're no good anyway. Then
the next question....how do I take the ring off? I watched a You tube
video on how to mount a tire to a split rim, but they didn't say how to
remove the ring.
do your self a favor and trow those rim away and you will save someone live The exploding components of a failed multi-piece wheel assembly have earned the nickname “widow makers.” Multi-piece wheels are two or three piece assemblies which require tube type tires. They are much less common then single piece wheels but can be found on garbage trucks or other heavy duty trucks. These assemblies utilize a split ring which secures the tire to the rim. The ring can appear to be properly seated on the rim prior to inflation when in fact it is not. If inflation takes place while the ring is not properly seated, the ring may suddenly release. Inflation of these types of tires must always be performed in a tire cage. Unfortunately, explosive separation can occur once the inflation process has been completed and the tire/wheel assembly is being mounted on the vehicle. B:-) Dnoym |
Posted By: Hubert (Ga)engine7
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 3:19pm
|
"do your self a favor and trow those rim away and you will save someone live" THROW THEM IN THE JUNK PILE! They are just waiting for a chance to maim or kill someone. ------------- Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God. |
Posted By: bradley6874
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 3:21pm
|
Check with your dirt track freinds the wide five is the standard you can fin just about any size rim , like stated above save lives and junk those rims also torch the ring in half before you junk them that way nobody can pick them up and reuse. The life you save me be a freind you just havent met yet ------------- You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 3:23pm
|
It usually takes a special rim iron to stretch the lock ring to get it on and off. I bought a set of tires for a '65 F350 dually close to 30 years ago. All the rims had the locking ring. Nobody in the tire shop would touch it but the boss and the 6 tires took all afternoon, the old ones didn't come off easily. I've never seen help in a tire shop do so much other work to avoid work in my life. And the split rims, there are several types, have a reputation for decapitating people working on them, especially inflating without a good enough guard. And the guard suitable for a truck tire would not contain that car size rim parts. Maybe wrapping a tow chain around the tire and rim going through the center hole several times and locked to keep it from letting the ring loose would be good. There is a section in most Ag tire handbooks, like from Titan/goodyear on safety with multipiece rims. The last 20 pages of the current Titan/Goodyear Ag tire handbook talk about mounting and dismounting. The last 15 of those are about multipart rims. http://www.titan-intl.com/files/Agriculture/Titan_Goodyear_Ag_Databook_2015.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.titan-intl.com/files/Agriculture/Titan_Goodyear_Ag_Databook_2015.pdf Gerald J. |
Posted By: GaryL
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 3:33pm
|
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 4:29pm
| yep...as all said above...gits rid of those rims...if the junk yard won't take them with the tires on...burn them some foggy dark night! |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 4:34pm
They are 17" 11/16" in diameter. Also, after some online searching, I found that a lot of people agree that they are safe if you do it right. Only if you don't is when things mess up.
|
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 4:48pm
| Can I find these wide 5 rims that aren't a split design? |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 4:58pm
Yes you can find them without split rims. I've mounted thousands of split rim tires and never had a problem. I really don't like the 3 piece rims. I once saw a cage after a ring came off. It would really make someone think twice about mounting them. I wonder if 9N Ford tractor wheels would fit on that hub??
|
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 5:01pm
Yes, I think so! If these are Ford wheels and hubs from the 30's, then yes, they are the same bolt pattern as a 9N/2N. Wait...the 9N and 2N have 3.00x19 tires though. That wouldn't work for a 60 I don't think. Your saying you've mounted thosands of split rims makes me feel a little better. Any advice on doing it safely and not having it explode on you? Thanks
|
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 5:10pm
|
If I can find some old 1 piece rims I could do this... http://www.ntractorclub.com/howtos/pdfs/Fabricating-16inch-Wheels-for-9N-2N-Tractors.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.ntractorclub.com/howtos/pdfs/Fabricating-16inch-Wheels-for-9N-2N-Tractors.pdf Maybe I could convert it to 15" centers so I can use the old tires off my trailer! They're still good, but they were getting old and I didn't trust them running back and forth to the farm on the interstate.
|
Posted By: Orange Tractors
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 5:31pm
|
Split rims aren't worth the trouble these days, but the real killers were the split center rims that used to be used on the five and six bolt wheels on 2ton trucks. IIRC the tire sizes were usually 7.50x20 or 8.25x20, there was absolutely no way to tell if they were together right or not. The only common split rim that I am aware of that is still on the road today is the 10.00-20 mounted on Dayton wheels that is used on the container trailers. For the OP: If in fact VW used this bolt pattern you should be able to find rims that are useable, there are still a lot of VW based dune buggies around and somebody has to be supplying wheels for them. I would measure the bolt circle very carefully before spending money, I remember trying to use Ford car wheels on a 9N one time and they didn't fit. My forty year old memory says there was a size change in 1936 or so on the car wheels. Robert |
Posted By: GaryL
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 6:08pm
| You wouldn't believe how many wide-5 VW rims I tossed for scrap about six years ago. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 6:12pm
| Darn!! |
Posted By: Michael V (NM)
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 7:19pm
|
how about ya just start all over ,,,. shoup sells spindles with hubs, cut those off and weld on new ones,, just like your Grandad did a long time ago... shoup, and prolly other farm stores have them or can get them,, that way you can use a standard 6 bolt implement rim and tires when my Grandad ordered his 60,, he ordered it with Timken bearings, he said he wasn't going to put up with them bushings ya had to grease so often |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 8:26pm
|
Had a friend killed in 1991 by a split rim on a flatbed truck while he was adding air to a low tire. Nearly took his face completely off. 19 years old. The inside dual blew while he was inflating it and it caused the outside dual to blow off shearing the studs and sending the tire, rim and ring directly into his face, throwing him against a gas pump which was completely flattened by his body. Throw em away. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: cowkicker
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 8:30pm
|
I'm not sure what that 2 piece wheel came off of, but 1937-1939 ford cars had wide five pattern one piece wheels. They would be 16" wheels, should be able to find some $50-$75 apiece. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 8:30pm
| Here's a thought...After I get the tires off, why can't I just weld the ring on and use it as a 1 piece rim? |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 8:38pm
| Another idea...I have a junk 8N at the farm with good front hubs on it. Maybe I could remove those hubs and weld them on... |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 10:12pm
|
The two piece rim does not have the dip in the middle, so you can't put a tire on it without breaking the cords in the beads then it won't hold air or stay on the rim. Go look at the last 20 pages of that Titan/Goodyear ag tire handbook I referenced. Look before the last 20 pages for information on rim shapes. Gerald J. |
Posted By: kinghunter
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 10:31pm
| if you lived closer i would show you the dent in the roof of my shop 24 feet up from the floor and let you speak with a friend of mine who brought over his split rims for help mounting. i done 2 of them and watched him do one and he done the other while i was outside. i heard a loud bang and alot of screaming. the ring was not set and came loose i would say if it didnt hit his arm and break it that it might have killed him, or atleast went through my roof. i advise finding a set of vw rims at junkyard for next to nothing and saving yourself or someone else. if a split rim gets pulled flat i have heard old timers saying that them rings can come slinging off there. |
Posted By: shackratt
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2016 at 5:21am
|
Creston take a look at these http://www.ebay.com/itm/Real-deal-1950s-60s-dirt-track-stock-car-wheels-wide-5-Ford-15-Buick-rims-5-v8-/201515943071?hash=item2eeb49449f:g:e3cAAOSwL7VWsABT&vxp=mtr ------------- AC 180, TO-20, Case 580B Case 450 dozer |
Posted By: Steve Zidlicky
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2016 at 7:41am
| going on the cheap is the most expensive thing that you could possibly do. cut those buggers up. I have the original tools and the experience to do those and I will not tell or show anyone how to use them and do not really want to do them any more myself. as far as the log chain for a safety, I have done that too and a friend that owns a tire shop tells me that you can break a good chain if the tire comes apart.(20 inch truck rim). I once had a 16 inch split ring blow off and went through 20 feet of standing orchard grass waist high, so even the smaller ones have a real punch. I also knew a friend that blew the inside split in the middle rim on a bulk gas truck and it broke the brake drum. these critters are not to be messed with. DOT outlawed them on new trucks around 1968. if you are going to redo it not back to original maybe use a mobile home idler axle and use a spacer on top of the axle stub to get the correct height needed. the older mh axles were made by dexter and I have 8 hole dexter hubs that fit right on the axle bearings and all. some think mh axles are junk but it you get the right ones they are good. the best I can tell they have the same wall thickness on the tube as a 7k commercial axle. the big difference is the cheap bearings. |
Posted By: GaryL
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2016 at 10:24am
|
The lug pattern for the old VW wide-5s is 205mm; however, the rims vary in diameter and width. The Type 1 (Beetle & Karmann Ghia) and Type 3 (Squareback/Fastback/Notchback) are 15" diameter, while the Type 2 (Bus/Truck) are 16" diameter. So, check the lug pattern on your tractor before embarking on a search. Finding old VW rims "for next to nothing" may be very difficult. Junkyards have been cleaned out over the years, and restorers are paying premiums for rims based on date-stamps and width. Then, there's the possibility you could luck out and find a wide-5 for a Porsche 356. If that's the case, throw that sucker on e-Bay and watch people bid it up over $300. 16" Type 2 rims will also fetch a good price. The biggest VW junkyard in the Oklahoma area (Wilson's) was cleaned out about 10 years ago after LeRoy Wilson passed away. Whatever couldn't be sold for outlandish money by his son-in-law was crushed. Bethany Foreign Imports, in OKC, *might* have some, but even they are pretty much done with vintage VW stuff. The only other "close" places I can think of are Earl Mann's, down in Ardmore, and Admiral VW Salvage, up in the Tulsa area. Good luck. |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2016 at 10:30am
|
I think it would be best to replace the hubs to take 5 or 6 bolt implement wheels. First thing is to take off the present hubs and measure the spindle diameters for the bearings and the distances between them. Also the seal diameter. Then look at Shoup and Baum Hydraulics for spindles the same dimensions. If found they will have hubs with bearings to fit. If the spacing is the same, but the diameters aren't the same, compare the bearing cone assemblies in the Baum Hydraulics tapered roller bearing section to find different cone assemblies to fit the ring in the hub and the present spindle. Do the same for the seal and order parts and put it together. The .pdf catalog from Baum Hydraulics searches a ton better than their on line search. http://www.baumhydraulics.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.baumhydraulics.com http://www.shoupparts.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.shoupparts.com Gerald J. |