LP to Natural Gas Conversion
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=117510
Printed Date: 25 Apr 2025 at 3:24am
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Topic: LP to Natural Gas Conversion
Posted By: acjwb
Subject: LP to Natural Gas Conversion
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2016 at 8:04pm
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Has anyone changed a LP tractor to Natural Gas? I think I have read some comments about it before but cannot do search. What has to be changed and does anyone have a compressor pump? I have a good gas well here and I have been thinking if I could find a good tractor and all the things to change it, I would have free fuel. Any information will be appreciated. Thanks Joe |
Replies:
Posted By: Tcmtech
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2016 at 8:50pm
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I have worked with the vapor carburetors that are used for both propane and natural gas fueled engines and switching between one or the the other is usually as simple as adjusting your A/F mix ratios which on most is basically just a matter of turning a main metering screw or valve. Now the downside is at the normal 250 - 350 PSI that most standard propane tanks can safely work at that will not give you much run time with natural gas being it won't be a liquid like propane is at that pressure. To be honest unless you have a tank that is physically about half the size of your tractor you can pull around that can work at 5000 - 7500 PSI you're not going to be doing much of anything with your tractor other than filling the tank driving around the yard for a lap and then going back to refill again.
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Posted By: johnkc
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2016 at 9:06pm
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with what I have checked into the cylinders and the compressor make it cost prohibitive which is too bad as I would love to convert the forklift and yard tractor to Nat Gas. ------------- I support the development of hybrid automobiles and alternative fuels as I need DIESEL fuel for my ALLIS CHALMERS! |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2016 at 11:16pm
| lots of cities run nat.gas in their transit buses, some police depart's also run nat gas in cruisers. also some metro utility companies do too in their trucks, check around and they prolly can help you! |
Posted By: bradley6874
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2016 at 5:50am
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Here is how I look at that, I work in HVAC if you could tank up natural gas in an efficient manner they would have done it before and put the LP gas guys out of business LP is only good because as a liquid its more stable 1 gal liquid lp makes a very large amount of gas as it vaporizes ------------- You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2016 at 7:23am
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LP isn't 'only good because'. LP and natural gas are totally different compounds, and they have unique properties which must be considered in their own realm. Propane is a hydrocarbon compound (C3H8), and it's properties include the fact that when held under sufficient pressure and below a certain temperature, it will exist in liquid form, in a much higher fuel-energy density than in gaseous state, and to keep it IN liquid state, it needs only to be either kept below a given temperature, or maintained under a certain pressure. Below around -45F, it will exist as a liquid you can pour into a coffee cup. At -42, that coffee-cup of liquid propane will exhibit 'steam' like coffee, and that 'steam' is very flammable when given an opportunity to mix with air. At -20F and higher, that cup will boil vigorously all on it's own... but keep it in a bottle that's sealed, it'll boil until the pressure inside the bottle reaches an appropriate point, and then stop boiling. at 0F, that's 24psi. 60F is 92, 100F is 172, and 130 is 257. In pure form, Propane C3H8 is heavier than air, has no color, and no odor, so an odorant MUST be added in order to safely store and use. It is usually extracted as a byproduct to the petroleum fractioning process... so it's market price is directly linked to gasoline and diesel production DEMAND. In terms of energy value, one gallon of C3H8 yields 74,000btu, when expanded as gas, that's 2490btu per cubic foot has an autoignition temperature of 1004 degrees F, a peak flame temperature of 1990-3640F In comparison, Natural Gas is a mixture of gases that include methane lighter than air, and it is naturally withdrawn from the ground through petroleum and water wells, as well as natural vents where subterranian decomposition occur. As a result of the mixture's variability, it's properties vary, but the methane component and byproducts are naturally corrosive, so it's fuel properties change with time. It can be liquified like propane, however, it must be not only compressed to very high pressure, it must then be refrigerated. Once liqufied, one gallon of LNG exhibits approximately 66,000 btu per gallon, or 1030btu per cubic foot. NG has an autoignition temperature around 842, peak flame temp of 1790-3254. In order to use what you have coming out of your private well, you'd either have to use it as-is, or put together a method of compressing it (or compressing and liquifying) for storage, both are difficult and expensive. IF you'd like to use it, though, it's still very useful (I'd certainly use it!)... a stationary engine driving a dynamo comes to mind... one of the best uses of say... an electric car... would be if you had a modernish oilfield engine driving a generator that could recharge the battery. It wouldn't be really fast, but my Fairbanks-Morse ZC-118 would spin 4kw worth of generator 24/7/365... that'd be at least enough to run a Tesla across town and back every day... and if you set it up to extract waste heat from the engine... heat the floor of your garage, and that electric car would have a warm place to hang out between grocery runs... and mebbie swing a lineshaft at times to run your lathe, milling machine, and air compressor... But the short answer- to make an engine RUN on it... the recipie is exactly the same with NG as Propane- gaseous mixer and valve, a really hot ignition system, adjust ignition advance, and dial up a bit more fuel than propane. Storage for mobile use is the tough part. ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2016 at 7:31am
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Oooh!... Just got a neat-o idea... Get yourself a G or a B/C/CA, perhaps even a WC or WD parts tractor with good chassis and rearend, nix the clutch, fit it up with an extra gearbox with about 6:1 low (granny low from a 1-ton pickup) driven by a 10-15kw AC servomotor. Mount a servo-drive controller on it, and build racks for deep-cycle batteries... you could put say 20 group-27 batteries on that chassis and be about same as a normal ballasted tractor... charge THAT with an oil-field engine... you'll get some work out'a that tractor, and it's QUIET....  ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2016 at 9:51am
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My LP reference says the gross heat of combustion of propane is 91,691 BTU per liquid gallon including the heat of vaporization. Ethane it says is 69,433 BTU/liquid gallon. Butane is 103,824 BTU per liquid gallon including the heat of vaporization. Ethane a big component of natural gas. In many parts of the world, the P of LP stands for petroleum and its a mix of propane, butane, and other similar products. Generally the blends have a bit higher BUT/ gallon, but aren't as happy in the Iowa environment depending on the ambient for vaporization. A waste product of crude oil refining. My LP reference is "A Practical Guide to LP-Gas Utilization" 5th edition dated 1973 published by LP Gas Magazine. Gerald J. |