Dumb 185 question, Hello! and some pics
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=116755
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Topic: Dumb 185 question, Hello! and some pics
Posted By: trucker185
Subject: Dumb 185 question, Hello! and some pics
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2015 at 10:10am
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Hey all, long time lurker here finally registered.. I hope all had a awesome Holiday. This may be a dumb question, but on our 185 can the range be shifted like a power shift, or do you need to be at a sit still? I am new to this tractor here and just recently got it running after it sat a spell. I have no paperwork/books on the ol girl just kinda learning as I go with it. The lever seems to have 3 detents, back Lo, middle is neutral? (im unsure on that) and forward is high. Im sure you guys know (it seems to be a popular tractor) but the range is just left of the throttle Thanks all.
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Replies:
Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2015 at 10:21am
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No, you do not need to stop to change from low range to high. Neutral is the middle position. Welcome to the forum and do yourself a favour: get yourself an operator's manual. ------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080 |
Posted By: trucker185
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2015 at 10:24am
| Thanks!! Yup, I have one on its way! |
Posted By: jiminnd
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2015 at 10:27am
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Think they are a great tractor, if you have a manual coming you will be informed with alot of the info you need, one thing is that even with the power directer in the neutral possision it will probably creep a little if you don't have the brakes applied or the gear shifter in neutral. ------------- 1945 C, 1949 WF and WD, 1981 185, 1982 8030, unknown D14(nonrunner) |
Posted By: TREVMAN
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2015 at 7:58pm
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Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2015 at 8:10pm
| I have never saw any thing torn up from shifting PD. When it is under load, shift it as hard as you can to bypass neutral. If it is under light or no load, shift it slow. MACK |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2015 at 8:18pm
| I agree with Mack. I would just add that you need to check the oils level in the power direct compartment. The one thing which will wipe out your clutch pack is running it dry. |
Posted By: allisbred
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2015 at 11:30pm
| I have used 185's for most of my life and have never tore one up. I shift up and down under a load or not and always try to skip neutral unless sitting still grinding feed or what ever with the PTO. I never slip them such as "creeping" when mowing (hard to anyway because I have tried) . I believe that is the hardest you can be on it, same with the PTO if yours is the hydraulic style. I'm not sure that is correct but I can tell you that I've spent thousands of hours on them and never broke anything. One of my favorites, hope you enjoy!! Kevin |
Posted By: sparky
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2015 at 7:09am
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I also agree with Mack. I used to plow with a D-17 with 3 slatted 14's. I plowed in 3rd gear wide open. I would start out in low range with the the plows dropped and shift quickly to high range and let her bark. I could have shifted to high range slower but I would have probably gotten a bloody nose from the steering wheel.Dad always told me to start in low range and shift to high so give the 17 a little "breather" on both ends of the field. That was one plowing outfit that I spent many hours on when I was a kid. Enjoy your 185, it's a great tractor. ------------- It's the color tractor my grandpa had! |
Posted By: JWingerter
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2015 at 11:07am
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My kid-experience is with D-series and there are two things that sort of jump out at me. As children, we were taught to use the hand clutch to stop. My dad said that he believed that, compared with the foot clutch, the hand clutch was more durable or at least easier to repair in the long run. Perhaps it was more of a kid-thing. A kid could smack the hand clutch with the base of a right hand; he might not be reliable at actuating/holding the foot clutch. (I can remember that it was necessary for me to literally stand on the Ford 8N clutch. If I sat down, the 8N would lurch forward.) In the county fair tractor pulls, the sled would be heavier and heavier as it pulled down the track. The AC could often get started in third gear. It would then have an advantage over the stupid Farmalls because only the AC could put the pedal-to-the-metal by up-shifting to high range without stopping. ------------- D17 Series III |
Posted By: TREVMAN
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2015 at 2:34pm
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Posted By: ctbowles58
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2015 at 2:38pm
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Welcome. ------------- 190XT 2WD45 WF D15 D14 CA BIG10 302 & 303 bailers 77G rake 80R mower 6 plows and alot more |
Posted By: joe
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2015 at 9:40pm
| The PD is more durable than the foot clutch. I'd personally rather start with the foot clutch engaged(power being transferred through it), and pull the PD into low, then throw it into high. We've baled probably 10000 round bales with it like this, as well as everything we do with it, and the PD as held up well. If you attempted to do that with the dry foot clutch(assuming you had live PTO), you'd have replaced it 2 or 3 times already. Not that they're a weak clutch, but it's a dry clutch on an 85 hp tractor. |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2015 at 9:53pm
| My d17 baled about 12000 to 15000 bales a year for the better part of 30 years just the way you discribed. I was always told to put it in the mid of the high low and engage the pto with the foot clutch engage and the motor at low speed so it is easy to line it up once you have that open it up about half throttle and let out the foot clutch then crank her right up to full speed and slip her onto low. Then if the hay is light pop her right into high fast. If the hay gets too heavy or starts to plug push the hand clutch into the middle and as soon as you can inch it forward in low. Or just pop it right into low. After 30 years of that I did have to split the tractor and replace the clutch pack but everything else in there was perfectly fine with the exception of a few seals that had served their life. I will gladly use the hand clutch when I want knowing how my grandfather and uncles used it and how well it lasted. As I said earlier keep the oil level correct and they take alot of abuse. My grandfather always said he was told by the dealer not to worry if the oil is full he could slip it all day and not hurt it. Now clearly there is a practical limited but they are tuff. |
Posted By: joe
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2015 at 10:20pm
It's everything that a true power shift is, if you don't shift it slow and slip it. Very well engineered and built unit.
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TREVMAN wrote:Posted By: ILGLEANER
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2015 at 10:20pm
We have a 1976 185 that dad bought new. It has been shift up and down under load it's whole life. The PD has never been touched in 41 years, nor the motor. I guess we just got lucky  IG ------------- Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated. |
Posted By: TREVMAN
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2015 at 11:18pm
| Sorry, el deleto completed, Trev. |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 6:35am
| The PD is a dam tough unit for sure, what kills them is if they start slipping find the problem fast, if the plates break and stack up it wears the hub and housing beyond tolerance,,,, an older tractor puller running a hot 180 once told me the clutches hold better running dry, this was just for pulling now, I'd say destruction of the clutches themselves happened early in that case |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 8:24am
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You aren't totally wrong Trevman. At least in what I read as Joe quoted you. It's just the AC's design was so well built that the PD could take the abuse with ease. In mechanics school, the instructor would say the same as you as far as shifting up or down. We were taught to shift up under light loads only and down shift under load but he also said a hard shift is better than a slipping shift especially under load. Seems Allis could take about any type of shifting and the sales brochures I believe would say to slowly engage the PD to start a heavy load. The mechanics instructor was a real knowledgeable guy but he knew IH best and yes with IH, you gotta baby them. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: trucker185
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 10:05pm
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Hey! thanks for all the great info guys!! This is a great tractor really enjoying working on it. My wifes grandpa bought it brand new in '76 I think i was told. Its been fun getting it going.. I've been using it to plow snow the minimal amount we have gotten this week. Still waiting on the manual to get here. Find out all the little details are a pain in the rear!! Ive got a few projects i'm working on the farm (grandpa has passed on) also got a 7030 serviced and up an running after 12ish years sitting. Got a few AC at the farm I've been putzing with when I find time (I'm a independent trucker) So time is not always there after trucking all week, running the business then the stupid truck breaking down WD45 was my project before this 185 (did i mention grandpa was hardcore AC!) That was a joy to wrench on. Shes getting brought up north in MN here getting put back in service making hay. Anyway, Again guys thanks for the help and feeling welcome. Im sure I'll have more assinine questions! HA! |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 10:26pm
| he's watching you from above and smiling! |
Posted By: joe
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 10:34pm
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Don't take it the wrong way TREVMAN, it's just a healthy discussion. If you want to run your PD that way, it's fine. Certainly, no one is telling you to run it one way or another. You are right that it will make it last longer by not shifting it under heavy load. No doubt about that. Problem I have is you have to either use the foot clutch or the PD to start off. I prefer the PD because it's very durable, and it being a wet clutch, there is next to no wear from slipping it some, because the oil film takes some time to dissipate(as in when you're slipping the clutch) The low effective co-efficient of friction that the oil causes gives you a soft start, and as the oil is 'squeezed' out, the co-efficient of friction increases, creating very nice modulation, with very little lining wear. Same principle applies to shifting to hi under load. If the PD valve is out of adjustment(via the handle) or bushings are worn, that PD will fail in a hurry, due both to the heat and wear. Very little wear occurs during a hard fast shift. I'd worry more about wear due to the shock of a hard shift, than wrecking the PD from shifting up under load. Again, whatever makes you comfortable. I can certainly relate to not wanting to take the time or money to fix problems that I could avoid.
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Posted By: TREVMAN
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2015 at 11:10pm
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Thanks Joe. I think maybe in the lower horsepower tractors its not as big of a deal. After noticing on the site here that the general concensus is that most 190xt tractors left the factory with a lot more than 93 pto, maybe more like a 100 or even 110 from factory, that's where I come in with being careful. My Dads 190xt was bought new in 1966, it was a very spunky tractor. Shifted from low to high under load it seemed like the thing jumped about 6 inches off the ground! That cant be good. So my Dad taught us that low to high under load was not happening under threat of what would be considered today as extremely politically incorrect actions...It was never altered in any way for more power. We also had a 200, it too seemed to be quite healthy, never altered (we had a 7040PS and two 7020PS for comparison). None of the tractors ever had PD, trans or rearend issues. My Dads cousin bought a 190xt new as well in 1967 I think, after about 3 years his tractor was always apart. He decided Allis was no good and got rid of it. Coincidence, I don't think so. He was the sort of guy that could wreck a 100 pound anvil with a rubber hammer. All I was trying to say to the OP here is take it easy, the tractor will treat a good owner good. The 185 was a great machine, I especially liked it for swathing, but its also 40 years old. I hope the OP gets great service out of his new to him Allis tractors and I would love to see pictures, Trev. |
Posted By: trucker185
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2015 at 1:20pm
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Heres some pics if I can figure it out! The 185, Kinda dirty and still need to degrease but NO more leaks! http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/truckdrivermn/media/20151231_112530_zpsigejmqxe.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
The WD45 just recently got running. Puurrrrs like a kitten now. Cleaned the entire fuel system. Hope my wifes uncle is happy with her for the hay season! http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/truckdrivermn/media/20151231_112623_zpsmhpqskfr.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  The little B is my current project... Grandpa got it rebuilt a few years ago. Runs great when its cold. Soon as it gets hot (like mowing) she binds up tight. Wait a hour then cut another 15 min... Im thinking maybe the wrong crank shims...? Ill be digging into it http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/truckdrivermn/media/20151231_112636_zpszoomoaf5.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  This little reversed AC is my favorite girl outta the bunch. Runs like a top!! http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/truckdrivermn/media/20151231_112706_zpscajsn5pb.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Another future project. Love to get it running kinda sad sitting in that corner. http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/truckdrivermn/media/20151231_120506_zpsthfj5nus.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  And a little mid plowing shot with my son the other day http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/truckdrivermn/media/10494556_10206897957859917_8519667616414301659_n_zpsi4z3euv1.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2015 at 1:28pm
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Impressive, you're no stranger to Allis it looks. What 7000 series is that? ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: TREVMAN
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2015 at 1:40pm
| Wow, Wow, Wow. And a gleaner lurking somewhere too? Nice, Trev. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2015 at 2:47pm
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I saw the other orange in the mix too. Second best ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: trucker185
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2015 at 3:21pm
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Lonn, Im actually new to Allis, but over the last year working on these... Ive been rushed into hard acquaintances haha. I'm from a red family. Grew up Famall! Gotta say... Orange has won me over big time! The big AC i think your talking about (7000 series) is a 7030. Big chore cleaning that one up and getting running. Thanks!
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Posted By: trucker185
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2015 at 3:22pm
Well the bean head anyway... The Gleaner sold last year
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Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2015 at 3:25pm
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Not to mention an old Keltgen seed sign as well. We were Keltgen dealers before Micogen bought them out. ------------- Still in use: HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
Posted By: allisbred
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2016 at 8:33pm
| Very nice AC's-- The big guy sitting on the 185 reminds me of myself. I spoke to one of my parents neighbor's a few years ago (very old couple that I wasn't sure they would remember me). His wife said they remembered me from when "They would see a big orange tractor coming down the road without a driver, then they would see me appear" We lived about 1/4 mile up the road and I would take equipment back and forth to other farms, starting from about age 5, parents would be in jail today for child labor abuse or something now-a-days. Used the D19 and 185's the most because I didn't need to sit in the seat for starting or changing gears (could not reach the clutch or breaks on the 45's wich was very difficult). Thank you for sharing those pictures and hope the fellow sitting on that 185 gets the chance to run it soon! Happy New Year-- Kevin |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2016 at 10:04am
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Very nice group of working AC tractors! You have a done a nice job getting them back into service too. I kind of like that reversed AC also! Nice collection! Thanks for sharing the pictures. Welcome! Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2016 at 10:27am
| One of those backwards tractors that was setup for a loader or forklift is what I would love to have for my hay grapple. Toyed with the idea of tracking one down or building one from a industrial d15 but decided it would be too much custom building so I just rebuilt mine as a regular loader but if I have any trouble with it I might replace it with something like that. I think mow a days the closest thing is called a rugged duty forklift. They look really useful to me. |
Posted By: mintenfarmer
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2016 at 10:55am
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Check this out https://www.farmshow.com/a_article.php?aid=17682 |