Indefinant Backorder (engine Kit) AGCO
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Category: Allis Chalmers
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=113303
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Topic: Indefinant Backorder (engine Kit) AGCO
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Subject: Indefinant Backorder (engine Kit) AGCO
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 2:55pm
|
Well I was ready to place on order a 175 engine kit today, but was told that that part # is backordered indefinitely. The man said I could place the order but it could be a week a year or never. This is really disappointing. He said they may be waiting to get a certain number of orders before they remanufacture the kit... Who has the time for that?? I also called around to every dealer within 50 miles and nobody has one in stock. Should I even bother to place the order? Aftermarket is looking better and better Lets all call in an order and maybe get agco's attention! lol |
Replies:
Posted By: Skyhighballoon(MO)
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 2:58pm
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David - did you try Flieg's? They often keep a 175 kit in stock. Mike
------------- 1981 Gleaner F2 Corn Plus w 13' flex 1968 Gleaner EIII w 10' & 330 1969 180 gas 1965 D17 S-IV gas 1963 D17 S-III gas 1956 WD45 gas NF PS 1956 All-Crop 66 Big Bin 303 wire baler, 716H, 712H mowers |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 3:04pm
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the dealer should be able to check if any dealer in the country has one... ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 3:25pm
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I don't know what's in an 'engine kit' but any chance Agco justs 'repackage' an after market one ? After all I can't see Agco actually MAKING the bits and pieces..... i KNOW they don't make he ring gears for the D-14s ! Mine was Made in India !! Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 3:33pm
| Ill call fliegs now. Jay its been discussed on other posts that the agco 175 kit is the only 4" kit made all others are overbore and dont use the power crater pistons. I may have to go that route now though. And the lady at one of the dealers did a search but she said not all parts get inventoried |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 3:51pm
| Called Fliegs, No luck. gonna try the 170 kit now |
Posted By: MrHDC
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 4:28pm
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We're talking about the gas 226 motor right? Hervey |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 5:05pm
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yeah Hervey for my D17. OK guys well I was able to track down 2 remaining kits for the 170. They are 8.00 Compression kits. I believe these are the last 2 in existence. I was able to confirm one the guy had to wipe dust off the box to read the part #. I asked how much? $982 and some change. Wow. the other supposed kit the dealer did not answer. These were found through the parts system they have. I cant believe that they quoted me a price like that for a box that's been sitting there probably 20 years. What did they pay for it $200?? Im thinking hard about buying this kit... Heres my options, $1000 agco kit, plus $125 Valve kit, and $125 for rod and main bearings. (about $1250) OR $750 Major overhaul aftermarket kit that includes valves and bearings. I just cringe at the thought of not having the right power crater pistons. I mean that's what those engines were known for! Putting some flat tops in there just doesn't seem right. |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 5:41pm
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Did you call sandy lake? http://www.sandylakeimp.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.sandylakeimp.com I haven't ordered from them before but I know their name comes up alot here as the goto place for agco parts. I was going to call them myself for a 175 kit if my d17 needs one. I don't know what I will do with mine it runs now but when it gets hot I end up with a valve that I don't think closes all the way. I have fought with stuck valves before I think if I end up having to do the head I will do the lower half as well. I would sort of like to upgrade to the 175 just to get a little more compression as I use it pretty hard. But cost will be a factor in what I do. If I can just do rings and bearing that will probably be what I do. Also look at the supplier page here I would try some of them for aftermarket kits I know from first hand experience that ok tractor is early good I have ordered a few small things from them over the years. Let me know how you make out before the winter is done I will be inside my d17 motor figuring out just what she needs to fix her weird running when she is hot. That is new about a month ago when I was cutting the last of the hay. Well I have a little more fall work for her before she can get some more quality shop time. |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 5:45pm
| Is there per chance an old M&W kit floating around? |
Posted By: chickenmann
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 5:47pm
| Call Jim at OKtractor, I got a 175 kit from him last year for under $700 |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 5:52pm
| Chickenman I doubt that was an agco kit? Was it overbore? |
Posted By: Tim NH
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 5:54pm
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I can't believe you found a kit. You can't turn back time. So that's what the price is now. You know the CR you are getting. So bite the bullet. Tim ------------- 1950 WD 1959 D14 1955 WD45 1976 7000 B 207 |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 5:55pm
| Dan ill call sandy lake. But the search that my agco dealer did only resulted in 2 kits. If sandy lake has one they dont have it on there agco inventory. 175 kits are gone its just these 2 170 kits left and not even sure if theres 2 only confirmed 1 |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 5:58pm
| Tim we typed at the same time lol. Your right. Ill be calling back in the morning to try and haggle if I can get 10 percent off even it would help |
Posted By: Tim NH
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 6:20pm
|
I here ya. I've been down this road w/ a WD kit. You will never have any what if's later on going w/ this kit, compared to the other. The Doctor knows best. lol ------------- 1950 WD 1959 D14 1955 WD45 1976 7000 B 207 |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 6:43pm
I just checked their website all the OKtractor kits listed are over bore 4 1/8" one kit shows the dished pistons the other 2 have flat top pistons. Just out of curiosity what is different in the 170 to 175 kits? I know the 175 has higher compression I was just wondering what I could do to my serries 1 D17 to boost the compression or if that is a bad idea. Mine doesn't smoke so I am thinking I will end up with rings bearing and a valve job. Mine was really fussy about what gas I could run this summer I don't know what caused that but I had to be really careful where I bought gas. She has never cared about what I ran for gas before. |
Dmpaul89 wrote:Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 6:46pm
|
Man it looks like I might just have the last Allis Chalmers 175 gas piston and sleeve kit left in the USA. ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: Alberta Phil
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 6:51pm
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I have an AC NOS piston and sleeve set 4" bore, 7.25 comp ratio. Unfortunately, it is missing one piston: part no. 229717. I would like to find a NOS matching piston or an excellent used one to complete the kit! |
Posted By: chickenmann
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 7:18pm
| We used the flat top 4 1/8" overbore kit in our tractor, think it was after market but it went together well and works fine for what we are doing. Machine shop I use felt like the parts were of a good quality and didn't mind using hem and putting their name on the work. No one sees what is inside of the motor but to each his own I guess. I wasn't going for a full original restoration just a good working tractor. JMHO, hope this helps |
Posted By: BcrazyTH
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 7:26pm
I have your missing 229717 piston. It found its way into my WD45 engine. I pulled it and replaced it with a correct wd45 piston this spring. PM me and we can complete your kit. ------------- Ben (Eastern Washington) WD45 190XT SIII |
Posted By: TREVMAN
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 9:08pm
| I don't understand what an "Agco" kit is...None of the overhaul kits you will find are manufactured by Agco, they are ALL "aftermarket". They likely sell Reliance kits...I googled 175 kits and found a 4 inch bore dished piston kit at Agkits parts, about $600 if I remember. There are also 226 overbore kits, that's what I put in my wd. They are flat top pistons. All I can tell you is that little tractor pulls like crazy. An Agco dealer is the last place I'd buy an engine kit, their mark up is going to be way more. Hope this helps, Trev. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 9:34pm
| Run an honest compression test and tell us what it is. |
Posted By: ac45dave
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 9:55pm
|
if memory serves me right,it was said by one of our local experts on this site, that replacing power crater pistons with flat top pistons will actually reduce compression ratio. ------------- 54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 10:09pm
| Theory is that the overbore makes more room than the flat top can make up for I guess. Plus the heads are flat. So the combustion doesnt flow like it would with the heavy dished power crater piston. Im not dogging on anyone who used the aftermarket kits I may well end up doing the same. I just wonder why these aftermarket companies had to change a good thing. Why the overbore? Why flat top? Why not mirror the factory piston and just lower the pin location for more compression? Sigh.. im getting too worked up over this. I should just throw a 262 in it stretch the frame and call it a day lol |
Posted By: ac45dave
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 10:32pm
lol.i hear ya.just be patient.a 175 kit w/8:25 to 1 comp ratio is bound to pop up sooner or later.main thing is, is not to get excited  ------------- 54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors |
Posted By: TREVMAN
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 10:35pm
|
Got 110 psi on all jugs when I tested. Thought that was good. The engine starts very well and pulls very hard, lots of torque. David, unless you are building a pulling engine, which is out of my league, I'd just buy from one of the vendors on this site. I am very pleased with the overbore flat top piston kit I used, Trev. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 10:59pm
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Here's two shots of D17 and 175 pistons. I the first shot on the left is the D17 piston and on the right is the 175 piston looking from the top.  In this shot you can see the diff in height from the pin.  It's worth hunting a set of 175's. ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 11:02pm
|
I know where to get 8 to 1 power crater after market pistons and sleeve sets.
------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 4:07am
| Don thanks for posting those photos. Now I know what I an looking for when I open up my d17. |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 5:32am
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Is the power max 915144 kit the same as a agco 175 kit? http://www.powermaxparts.com/DEMO/AC-226-E.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.powermaxparts.com/DEMO/AC-226-E.html http://www.jensales.com/products/ep-915144-allis-buda-out-of-frame-overhaul-kit-allis-chalmers-g226.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.jensales.com/products/ep-915144-allis-buda-out-of-frame-overhaul-kit-allis-chalmers-g226.html From a quick glance it looks like it has a 4 inch bore with 8.25 to 1 compression. |
Posted By: bradley6874
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 6:11am
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don I did the same measurement but I also noticed that the bottom of the dish is actually lower than the flat top so all you gaining is the advantage of the dish shape if both pistons are 8:1 ratio there compressing the exact same amount of air and yes the dish would make a difference on a highly tuned pulling tractor but on a regular tractor or a hobby tractor you will never see the power difference ps mine got the flat tops and they work great ------------- You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 6:57am
|
That piston Don shows on the left is not a actually a OEM type D17 piston. Maybe height wise and bore but that dish isn't what Allis put in a D17. That looks like what the dish in a WD45 piston is. A D17 piston will look the same from the top as a 175 piston. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 7:01am
|
Howard out of Iowa used to sell the OEM style and bore kits a dozen years ago or so. I have no idea if they still do or if they are even in business anymore. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 7:08am
| At least Trevman is honest !! 110 psi versus 170 psi on 170-175 pistons. That my friends is a BIG difference. More power and better fuel economy. |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 7:20am
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Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 7:36am
| ...there's always the option of trimming the top of a stock WD piston to get your 8.25cr....gotta be able to do some math... |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 7:42am
| A stock WD OEM piston is a flat top design. |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 7:54am
|
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 8:05am
| If everyone who posted on this thread would call there local dealer and backorder a 175 kit. It would be problem solved. They need to see demand I dont blame them. my dealer parts guy says its on the verge of being discontinued. Now he also said if they do discontinue it that company who made the kits could reproduce and sell them aftermarket If they wish.. |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 9:06am
The D-17 piston Don pictured looks exactly like the ones in my early D-17. |
Posted By: Skyhighballoon(MO)
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 9:30am
|
That picture Don showed of the pistons is from my Series IV. That piston on the left is indeed an aftermarket 4 1/8 kit piston (with the infamous 6.5:1 CR to boot). I have the original 4" 7.25:1 Allis power crater pistons that came out of it when it was overhauled the first time back in 1997. When it was done in 1997, it had the wrong oil pump put in it (w/o the built in pressure relief valve). When Don had it open in 2013 to fix that, we found the sleeve o-rings were weeping. Once we went to the trouble to pull the sleeves it was going to be done right and got the AGCO 175 kit. Since they had maybe 50 hours on them, I saved the aftermarket sleeves, & pistons and bought new o-rings and piston rings and those will eventually go in my WD45 when it needs it. Mike ------------- 1981 Gleaner F2 Corn Plus w 13' flex 1968 Gleaner EIII w 10' & 330 1969 180 gas 1965 D17 S-IV gas 1963 D17 S-III gas 1956 WD45 gas NF PS 1956 All-Crop 66 Big Bin 303 wire baler, 716H, 712H mowers |
Posted By: bradley6874
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 10:08am
|
We don't need to compare a 175 to a d17 piston we need to compare a 175 piston to a new flat top piston we know the 175 is better than the 17 when I did my e motor the piston looked like don's picture but the dish was way lower than the flat top. the edge was better but the dish was worse average probley the same ------------- You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 10:29am
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Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 10:31am
|
Latter on maybe tonight I will post how to built a AGCO 8.25 to 1 piston and sleeve set from AGCO parts the pistons, sleeves, o-rings and piston rings will cost about $500.00 to do it with the part numbers and they are still available. A flat top piston will not make the same HP as power crater piston will on the same amount of fuel used per hour. ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 10:36am
| Thanks Don that sounds really helpful. I am starting to get excited about the chances of getting all of my old tractors back up to snuff this winter. Man I have too many projects. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 10:39am
| I have never ever felt the "Power Crater" design piston was a sales gimmick. It even has a different sound that a flat top piston engine, in my opinion. |
Posted By: Mrgoodwrench
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 11:06am
|
I mean no disrespect but if it is for a d17then why do you need a 175 kit. if it is for a working tractor then the D 17 parts have been fine for all these years. if the tractor doesn't have enough power to get the work done in my opinion you need a bigger tractor. if its for a puller there are literally hundreds of different combinations you could use to make more power and I doubt a 175 kit is the best option. ------------- There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!! |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 11:13am
The bottom line is that he's looking for Power Crater pistons. There doesn't seem to be an OEM or aftermarket Power Crater kit anywhere. If it costs no more to put a 175 kit in instead of a D17 kit, why not just use a 175 kit? If Don knows where to get a 175 Power Crater kit, I'd go with that. |
Posted By: KenBWisc
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 11:23am
|
You may find it difficult to find 262 kit from AGCO as well.
------------- '34 WC #629, '49 G, '49 B, '49 WD, '62 D-19, '38 All Crop 60 and still hunting! |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 11:23am
Well for my personal situation it is a work tractor. I could probably freshen up the motor and be ok. I might still do that. But if replacing the pistons will give me a little higher compression and a little more hp then that would be great. Yes it has been a stock d17 on the farm here for alot of years. But I also added a front mounted hydraulic pump to run the accumulator for my haying and I am running a NH 565 baler. The two are a little big for her as she stands today. As to the bigger tractor comment maybe that would be a good solution but I own the d17 and it does get the job done if I could give it just a little more power I wouldn't feel I was working it for all it is worth. No disrespect taken on my part I am simply trying to figure out what my options are right now and depending on what I find when I open her up. Right now mine has an issue where once it warms up I think some of the valves stretch and she looses compression. I am not sure but that is sort of how it acts. Once I finish the fall work I will be having a mechanic friend of mine look at it with me. I know if I redo the head I will do rings and bearing at the very least I won't just redo the upper half and leave the old tired lower half. |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 11:26am
| I put a call in to a power max engine parts dealer. This company is owned by reliance. In the power max catalog they list 4" bore 8.25 kits. Part number 915144. Im waiting to hear back. This may be the agco kit in a different box. Thats what im hoping for anyway... I dont have a problem using a overbore kit in my tractor mrgoodwrench. But in the intrest of preserving allis' s power crater design I think this problem affects us all. The d17 is one of the greatest tractors made. And it goes hand in hand with the power crater pistons. if agco isnt going to make the kit anymore that means no more allis style pistons and we loose the most popular aspect of those engines |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 11:35am
| Just got a call back. That power max kit is 4" standard bore and they had a different name for the pistons but I believe they are the same as the power crater. The kit is 1020.00 it comes with everthing except valve components and it is a 8.25 comp ratio. Its availiable and ready to ship. All id have to do is find out which bearing size to get. This seems to be the agco kit guys! |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 11:43am
| Ill also add that this company also makes the overbore kits and they are $650 compared to the standard 4" kit which is $1020 I asked the dealer why the difference and he said purely supply and demand. Most go with the overbore assuming bigger is better. so more are made. |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 12:07pm
| http://www.powermaxparts.com/DEMO/AC-226-E.html" rel="nofollow - Check it out |
Posted By: Fields
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 12:11pm
| i have a allmost new set of 4 inch pistons sleeves and rings. ill check the numbers to see. as far as i know agco was the only company selling 4 inch sets. |
Posted By: ac45dave
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 12:26pm
------------- 54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 1:03pm
Did you try calling jensales from that link I posted above? That is the same power max kit listed for $915 they can try to say the Web page is out of date but I would argue that they have to sell it at the listed price. Would save you some money |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 1:43pm
| I couldn't get it to load on my phone but yes now I see it on my work computer. This looks good! im going to call them |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 2:19pm
| Ok yeah confirmed the price at 915.09. This looks like the way to go. Man I sure wish someone would chime in on here that has used this kit. it is a 4" bore. both power max dealers I talked to said the kits are very good and they have very little problems. Interestingly the 7.25 kit from them is 1600 lol. I guess there are very few of those sold |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 2:42pm
|
You're going to go with $915 when Don said he probably could do it for about $500? |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 3:17pm
| Don said sleeves and pistons. This is a full overhaul kit. I havent ordered anything yet. So far it looks like the best option. If don can show better thats great! |
Posted By: Chalmersbob
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 9:48pm
|
If you haven't taken the engine apart and checked parts to factory specs, don't order anything. You may just be throwing money away. Many of the parts in the engine will still be in spec. You're not building a high speed racer turning 8000 RPM. It's a low speed tractor turning 1600 RPM. LOL Bob ------------- 4 B's, 1 C's,3 CA's, 2 G's WD, D14, D15, B-1, B10, B12, 712S, |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 11:06pm
| I know what you mean Bob. I pulled the head and theres a busted up piston and scored cylinder. I pulled the pan and mains are shot. Theres also a valve seat hanging out of the head. Trust me this motor is bad. I wish I could post pics of the carnage. I suppose I could put one sleeve and cylinder in it and have the crank turned. Then slap on a different head. But were still talking $500 patch job at least. Why not make it right. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2015 at 8:56am
|
OK, here's the AGCO part numbers, the price I got over the phone was way off, it's $778.80 for pistons, sleeves, piston rings and O-rings for the sleeves. Here's the list. Piston 70230577 $53.00 apiece Sleeve 70257450 $99.00 apiece ring set 70230091 $144.00 for all four pistons O-ring 70227500 $3.35 apiece So if you get the above parts from AGCO it will be higher that the $500. I got but they can be ordered for AGCO and get true 8.25 to 1 pistons. I'd try the kit you posted about. I am sorry about the diff in price, I was just going by what I was told. ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2015 at 9:51am
| Don thanks for the information. Depending on what I find when I open up my d17 I might just get the 4 pistons rings send rod bearings. Having the correct part numbers for the pistons is helpful. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2015 at 10:12am
| Do NOT try and install 175 pistons in old used D-17 sleeves !!! The ring edge will not allow the new higher up pistons to travel higher up. |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2015 at 10:15am
| Good point I was guessing I would have to have a machine shop bore the sleeve and use oversized rings if that is even possible. Otherwise I would have to decide if I wanted to change out the entire sleeves to get the better compression if my sleeves are good it will probably just get rings and bearings. |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2015 at 10:56am
|
Thanks for the post don. Not sure which way im gonna go now lol. This weekend ill get my crank pulled and measure it to see how far it will need cut. Then ill be ready to order. So I have a few more days to think. Took the head in to my machine shop already its pretty rough. The manifold surface needs milled cause each exhaust end is burned out. Will need a couple seats and all guides. Were gonna tank it next week to make sure its crack free and usable. |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2015 at 1:04pm
|
So it looks like it will cost about $778 for the kit plus bearings and gaskets. You can weigh this cost against and aftermarket set without Power Crater pistons. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2015 at 1:56pm
|
You can cut the ridge out of the sleeves with a ridge cutter. http://www.autozone.com/loan-a-tools/piston-ridge-reamer" rel="nofollow - http://www.autozone.com/loan-a-tools/piston-ridge-reamer ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2015 at 2:12pm
Well ive determined that this "aftermarket" kit through Power max should have the power crater pistons. Its a 4" kit and has the same 8.25 comp ratio. either way the cost would be about the same, to do the kit or what don said and add the pieces. I talked with a rep from RELIANCE Engine parts (they own Powermax) and he said it isn't hard to be a Dealer, you just have to prove that you are a business, So my question is why aren't any of the parts vendors offering this kit?? Seems like a no brainer. I mean there is demand from INFORMED buyers. |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2015 at 3:07pm
| Seems like someone in here should carry the power max kit they would have a ready made market... |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2015 at 7:26pm
| Someone does,, |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2015 at 7:38pm
Well please share who does I did alot of searching to find that part number the other day and I have yet to hear from someone who has actually had a power max kit in hand to say yes for sure it is the same piston as the agco 175 kit. |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2015 at 8:04pm
| Dan I think people are withholding info and that is disturbing. I thought we were all on the same team here? And by the way dan thanks for doing that research. I think that kit is a winner |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2015 at 8:07pm
Don't let it bother you too much there are alot of good people in here who try hard to help. Your welcome I think there are even odds it will end up in my d17 once I get around to working on it. In my case I really don't know how bad it will be it still runs and doesn't smoke but there is something wrong when she gets hot and I do work her hard. |
Posted By: Dean (West MI)
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2015 at 8:26pm
|
Thanks for all the information guys. Lots of work went into finding this information out. |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2015 at 5:27pm
| Got my motor pulled today. Went well. Happy to see the clutch and input shaft are good. No play in the shaft and pilot bearing is ok. I will probably replace the bearings and put a new clutch disk in regardless. Did maybe goof up when I pulled the flywheel I assumed there would be a dowel on the crank so it could only go on one way but there isnt. How do you know which way to put it back on? |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2015 at 6:35pm
|
I believe the bolt holes are offset. There's only one way it will go back on. |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2015 at 7:14pm
| That will be fun lining it up. At least the flywheel isnt 150 pounds like the massey 135 I did. |
Posted By: sparky
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2015 at 8:14pm
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Make a couple of removable studs and slide it on. Lot easier than wrestling a hunk of steel. ------------- It's the color tractor my grandpa had! |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2015 at 8:17pm
| Perhaps I'm thinking of the 301, but isn't there a seal behind the flywheel that can be replaced? |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2015 at 9:39pm
|
If you look the crankshaft and flywheel over, it's quite easy to see how it goes on. If you have the engine on an engine stand, put the flywheel on a floor jack. They really aren't bad to put back on. |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2015 at 10:43am
| Since it seems that no one has wanted to identify anyone who is a dealer for these kits, I am in the process of becoming a dealer. I will keep you informed. |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2015 at 10:59am
| If you get the account, Id think there is money to be made. that is if the kit is what we think it is. All it would take is some simple marketing. To explain what it is and compare it to the overbores. Sure a lot will still cheap out and go for the flat tops but I think you could sell a lot of these kits to restorers. If the other venders havent cought on by now well thats there fault for not staying current with the demand. Some vendors ive searched havent updated lists in years. If I had a buisness I would of made an account myself. Good luck |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2015 at 12:17pm
Be aware that there is more to being a dealer than just buying the kit, marking it up, and selling it. What will your return policy be? What is the company's return policy? Do you need a sales tax certificate? Is there a stocking level requirement? Will you take credit cards? How will you deal with bad checks? Ask any dealer here and they will tell you there is a whole lot more involved than just marking the product up and sending it out the door. |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2015 at 1:07pm
|
Thanks for the advice, but I have been in business for many years. We used to sell gun safes, until I got too old to fight with safes that weighed up to 1500 lbs. I already have a business certificate and tax number and have been selling parts (new and used) locally for a while. I am already hooked up with some other wholesalers. Since I am (partially) retired, I don't want to get too big. |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2015 at 3:16pm
|
I have been a Power Max Dealer for 14 years .I was waiting to see where this post was going . I use these kits in all the jobs that go out of my Shop. ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2015 at 3:57pm
| So Fred are the pistons the same shape and size as the 175 kit pistons? Can you post a picture so we can see what they look like? |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2015 at 4:12pm
|
I do not stock the kits as many dealers do not .I drop all the kit that I sell across the so called counter. Only order in what I need for the shop . ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2015 at 4:42pm
| is it a power crater piston or not??? and how long were you gonna let me suffer before we discovered this kit? I GUESS THE BIG SECRET IS OUT |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2015 at 4:58pm
|
8.25 . Ware house dose have them . Just checked . Call me 717-451-6590 .For any more information 7 am to 8 pm eastern time . ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2015 at 6:57pm
Hey Fred can I order just one oil ring and not a complete set of piston rings? ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2015 at 9:38am
| Parts list says you can order a set (one pistons worth) for $25 i think |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2015 at 11:17am
|
There is no big Secret. Looks as all information had been posted early on in the post. All one needs to do is know just what they want to do and order from any dealer they wish. There is search for dealers on the Power Max site to find one near you. .Good luck with what u are going to do with ur engine. ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2015 at 11:12am
|
I just (finally) got set up as a Reliance (Powermax) dealer and placed my first order for a couple tractors I'm working on. If I can help anyone, let me know! |
Posted By: ac45dave
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2015 at 8:39pm
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well not to stir the pot lol,but what was the final decision on what engine kit to use for the engine overhaul? ------------- 54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2015 at 10:14pm
| Im gonna try this power max kit. I havent ordered yet. I gotta wait to hear from my machinist on bearing size. I will post once I get it in. Im hoping its what I want... still havent confirmed if its a power crater style piston. Nobody seems to know. Guess ill be the guinea pig. It is 4" bore and 8.25 comp |
Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2015 at 11:02pm
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I would like to see it too! Tracy ------------- No greater gift than healthy grandkids! |