WD No Spark
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=112154
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Topic: WD No Spark
Posted By: mksteckel
Subject: WD No Spark
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2015 at 7:38pm
New here and I really need some help. I bought a 1948 WD that's been sitting for a few years. It didn't have spark when I started working on it. It had a 12v conversion already with a 12v generator. I've since replaced cap, rotor, condenser, coil, resistor, and points. I have power through resistor, coil, up to points and out the end of the rotor but no spark or power through cap. I'm stumped. Here is a pic of the set up
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Replies:
Posted By: mksteckel
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2015 at 7:39pm
Here is another pic of the set up.. Don't know if it helps y'all when it comes to advice
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Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2015 at 7:44pm
Do you have 12 volts at the coil input? Even with the points closed? If not, check your ignition switch. If you do, disconnect the wire to your points and ground that coil stud with a short piece of wire. When you remove the wire, a spark should shoot from the high voltage wire. Have that wire within a quarter inch of a ground. If this works, get back to me.
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Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2015 at 8:22pm
Id swap old parts in and see if it makes a difference. One at time. Dont know what brand parts you bought but i havent been very pleased with the cheap kits they sell in farm and home stores. They are very crude and sometimes need tweaking to work. Ive found that most the time an old tractor just needs the points sanded on to spark.
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Posted By: Chalmersbob
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2015 at 8:33pm
I always start with a jumper wire from the battery to the coil. That eliminates the switch circuit. I've done this already and the tractor started, removed the wire and the tractor died. Tried it again, and it kept running and has been running since. LOL Bob
------------- 4 B's, 1 C's,3 CA's, 2 G's WD, D14, D15, B-1, B10, B12, 712S,
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Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2015 at 8:44pm
From a post I made about 7 weeks ago.
Anything in the ignitions system can go wrong.
From a post I made a couple weeks ago:
Sitting a while points sometimes corrode and don't make contact even
when the close. Or I've had points on a running engine stop moving
because of lack of lubrication on the point pivot.
Fact is everything in the ignition system has to be right for it to run and any part can stop it. Points, condenser, coil, wires, ignition switch, distributor advance, rotor, cap and I've had trouble with nearly every one of these some time.
From a post I made last year. Should make it a web page.
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Topic - is my new coil bad? Posted: Dec 19 2014 at 1:34pm By Gerald J.
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Points are ALWAYS on the ground side of the coil. Makes them easier
to build mechanically. Ignition switch is on the hot side. When points
are open there will be 12 volts on both coil primary connections. The
voltage on the points side will be very slightly lower because of the
voltmeter load and the coil primary resistance. For good VOM at 20,000
ohms per volt on the 25 volt scale the voltage drop will be 75 or 100
microvolts, which you won't detect. When the points are closed there
will be 12 volts on the battery terminal, and zero on the points wire.
If the points don't close that won't happen and there won't be any
ignition. If the voltage drops on the battery post of the coil with the
points closed, there's external resistance in the battery wire that you
don't need with the 12 volt internal resistor coil.
A coil works
by storing energy in the core's magnetic field while the points are
closed. An inductor like the coil tends to slow the change in current,
so the current rises in a few milliseconds from nothing to being limited
by the DC resistance. Then then the points open, the coil voltage rises
rapidly trying to maintain same current. We electrical engineers call
that L* di / dt. The voltage is the inductance times the rate of change
of current. Otherwise known as inductive kick. The primary coil induces
lots of voltage (tens of thousands of volts) in the many turns of the
secondary.
Typically points are closed about half the time as the
distributor cam rotates and open about half the time, that ratio is
called dwell. So the odds are about 50/50 of finding the points open or
closed, modified by where the engine stopped after bouncing off the last
compression stroke.
The points have to have the correct gap set
on top of the cam to close and open properly. And after setting the gap
with a feeler gauge (or in some GM distributors with a dwell meter while
running) the timing has to be set so ignition happens at the right
piston position, anticipating top dead center sooner the faster the
engine is running. That's the job of the centrifugal advance weights. If
they haven't been lubricated they will mess up timing and engine
running. Timing stuck advanced will nearly stall the starter while
cranking. Timing stuck retarded will make for a very smooth running
engine with low power.
A bad condenser/capacitor will upset the
power in the ignition pulse (good condenser makes for a fat blue spark, a
bad condenser makes a thin yellow spark). A shorted condenser will
prevent the circuit from opening and so kills spark completely.
Spark is better if the coil primary connection polarity matches the battery polarity.
Besides
the points gap, and distributor timing, the cam shaft timing has to be
right so the valve open and close at the proper times as well as the
distributor gear drive timing has to be right. Then the carburetor mix
has to be right because gasoline vapor has to be rich enough but not too
rich, its not like hydrogen that will burn from about 2% to 90% in air,
gasoline has to be about 15 to 25% to burn.
There are so many
things that have to be right for a gasoline engine to run that its
sometimes amazing that after working on one that it runs at all. Fuel,
air, spark, timing of spark, timing of valves (affected by the cam gears
and the valve clearances) all have to be right to run at all or to run
good.
Gerald J. |
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Posted By: Allen Dilg
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2015 at 9:27pm
Hello Mkstetkel Just reading your post and Shooten from the HIP I'd say the carbon was not in the center of the CAP
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Posted By: mksteckel
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2015 at 11:42am
Well I found I had a bad wire and I didn't have points gapped correctly. Got it fired up this morning for the first time in around 5 years.
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Posted By: fixer1958
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2015 at 9:46am
I had that happen once on my WD. We were snowed in/blading snow, and I stopped to go in the house to get something. Came back out and no start/no spark. Good spark out of the coil but stopped there. Looked at the cap and the button that connects to the rotor fell out. I couldn't get out to get a new cap so I wadded up a piece of tin foil and crammed it in the hole and got the job done.
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