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Help rebuilding aftermarket WD seat? UPDATE: 5/6

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garden_guy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garden_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Help rebuilding aftermarket WD seat? UPDATE: 5/6
    Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 1:30pm
So... My cousin is doing some work on my tractor for me, and we have discovered that my aftermarket seat is worn and wallered out pretty good. Does anyone know if parts are available for these, or if it is worth having a machine shop rebuild it, or even how to rebuild it and how these things are assembled?








I rather keep this seat on it, as it was grandpa's, so it has sentimental reasons to be repaired. But I don't know what kind of options or parts I would need (or need to have made) to rebuild it. I can't tell what should be pins or threaded inserts or what exactly, as several of the bolt heads have been worn through and snapped, and many of the holes are wallered out now. The central shock is in good shape at least, though.


Edited by garden_guy - 06 May 2021 at 10:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dusty MI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 6:08pm
I've never seen that type of suspension on a WD-45 seat, that pan seat yes.  If you lived close to me I'd try to help you rebuild that seat.

Dusty
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 8:40pm
There's really nothing difficult about rebuilding that seat to be true to it's original manufacture.

Illinois is a rather expansive location, but I'll follow Dusty's lead-  if you were close to me, or your parts wound up on my project table, I'd rehab them for you.

The woller'd out holes... welded shut, ground smooth, redrilled.

The pins and tubes, either welded-up, and reground to original shape, or just duplicated out of some new stock.

you'd get to scrub them clean, prime, and paint, of course...   I'm near the Quad Cities...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 9:23pm
As Dave and Dusty have Stated, not too rough of a job and would be glad to help. I am in south/central IL. where are you located? 
1937 WC, 1948 G,1954 CA,1956 WD45, 1967 D17, 1937 M crawler, 1963 D-19, 1966 190XT, 1967 D-15, 1948 HG42 Cletrac, 1955 G456 Terra Trac, CAT 10 1928 and CAT 22 1938
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr p Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2021 at 6:23am
I think it is very similar to the seat on a farmall 450. Not sure about availability of parts there either
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2021 at 7:01am
That is a a Knoedler tractor seat.  It uses bearings on the ends of the pivot bolts.  Stieners sells them, they are around $14 each.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IBWD MIke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2021 at 9:09am
My Grandpa's WD has that same seat, I didn't realize it wasn't factory equipment for quite awhile. When I bought the first 45 it came with the original seat, I'm like WTH is this. Had to do a little research to figure it out. Luckily mine is in good shape.

Good luck with the overhaul, don't think you'll have to much trouble.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garden_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2021 at 5:26pm
Dusty MI / DaveKamp / Roach -- Many thanks to you all! I live close to Springfield in the middle of the state. Going to try and tear into it myself and see how far I can get before I try to enlist some help for the rebuilding; I appreciate the offers for assistance. It may be awhile though, as we are all in for a nasty cold snap here for the next week or so.

dr p / Joe (OH) -- I see the Knoedler seat bearing listed on Steiner... Once I get this torn apart and take some measurements, that may work for me. Then I'll just have to figure out how to fix the wallered out holes and how to find new pins or sleeves for the other pieces. McMaster-Carr is probably my friend on that one.

IBWD Mike -- Yeah, I never paid much mind to it, but man this tractor sits so much nicer than my other WD with an original seat. Hoping it isn't too hard for me to fix up (or have a machine shop do a bit of welding, pressing and drilling if need be).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2021 at 11:41am
Cool, well, if it was on my project table, I'd use a 4" grinder with flap-disk to cut away weldment holding it together, then disassemble, and clean up the areas where excess weld or distorted metal is mauled out.

once that's cleaned, I'd take out a scribe and do best I could to determine and mark the parts so as to be able to re-drill the holes...

I'd clamp some aluminum, brass, or copper to the BACK of a waller'd-out hole, then use my wire-feed welder, and FILL IN the entire hole area... let it cool, then take the flap-disk and grind it back down to look totally flat and undrilled...

Then find those scribe lines, and locate, center-punch, and drill new holes accordingly.

For the cross-shafts, I'd either find some appropriate stock, and cut it to length, etc... as it is PROBABLY a fairly common size (SAE fractional).  If it had any features (a shoulder, etc), I'd slap a chunk in a collet in the lathe and turn it to whatever size it needed.

The bearings... I can't see 'em, and I've never worked on one of these seats, but if they're in there, and you can get 'em from anywhere, then they're replaceable.  I hardwood dowel, some threaded rod, a mallet, and some profanity will probably get it done... for all else, post a picture, perchance we can give you advice, and if not, we can at least laugh WITH you while you struggle.

They're tractors, they were built by men... they can be fixed by men! ;-)

Do you have a 4" grinder and a little MIG welder?  If not, send Santa a wish-list!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garden_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2021 at 9:54pm
Dave,

Whew. Sorry it took awhile for me to get back to you on here. Hectic and frigid stretch of days we've had here. I was hoping I'd get over to my tractor to take that seat off, but I haven't done more than scoop snow and work for this whole cold snap.

Hoping to get over to my tractor this weekend (just an hour drive each way) to finally take the seat off and take some pictures of what I'm dealing with... And then decide a course of action and get some helpful feedback from here. I'll try and get some quality pictures.

Quad cities is only about 3 hours away from me here... If I throw in the towel, I may take you up on that offer for help. If it's very beat up, it won't take long for it to get past my level of expertise.

I do have a 4" grinder, and it has been fantastic. I also have a small rotary/dremel tool that has been fantastic for me. However, I should probably pick up a MIG welder one of these days and learn how to use it. Definitely going on the Santa list for 2021 haha.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dawntreader74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2021 at 11:48pm
you should'nt be far from Elkart Il' if you can look up Linn Johnson' you may no him' he will be glad to weld up them holes an help you out with your seat. i may have a number for him if needed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garden_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2021 at 11:38am
dawntreader74 -- oh yeah, that's only like 30 minutes from here. I may keep that in mind, that'd be awesome.

Didn't get to the shop to look at this seat this weekend, went out to the other shed to check on how my other tractor weathered the cold snap (coolant was fine, but somehow leaked gas from the sediment bowl and carb during the sub-zero temps; yikes).

Hopefully a good report and pictures later this week.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garden_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 11:36am
Well good news, I finally got the seat taken off and it is here on my work bench. Hopefully will get some pictures uploaded in the next couple of days. Want to get access to these 4 bearings and make sure they're the correct sized ones that Steiner is selling before I order them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2021 at 2:19pm
Keep us up to date on it.  I've got one too, on a C.  It also needs a little TLC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garden_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2021 at 4:17pm
Ted J -- I finally took a gander at stuff today, and here's where I'm at so far.

So I found what Steiner lists on their website for the ABC537 Knoedler Bearings (since it doesn't list a "WD" on it). The dimensions are:
  • 3/8" inside diameter (ID)
  • 1" outside diameter (OD)
  • 1-1/8" flange

So... Bust out the calipers and do some measurements time!

Step 1: Remove tractor seat (it looks so weird with the seat and battery box and fenders off)




Step 2: Measure what is left of the old bearings in the seat






So with that, it sure seems like the 1 1/8" flange, 1" OD, and 3/8" ID all seem to match!!

Step 3: Check the two pin slot sizes (ruh-roh, the one is seized in there)





So... sure looks like the ABC537 bearings from Steiner should work. Just gotta order 4 of those. And then a bunch of mounting hardware for that.

As for the pins... Looks like if I got some sort of stainless sleeve to go from 1/2" down to 3/8" (maybe 0.400" tube ID seems the closest), I could use some 3/8" all thread rod as replacement pins. And make sure to drill my tube for the grease zerk holes.

Then the only thing left to do may be to have the 4 holes in the part that mounts on the brake cover welded up and re-drilled for the new 3/8 hardware since it looks pretty wallered out.

Maybe this won't be as awful as an undertaking as I thought. But first things first I'm going to have to get the old bearings knocked out of this thing and order the new stuff from Steiner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garden_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2021 at 11:56am
Well, got my 4 seat bearings on order from Steiner this morning.

Also got my dremel with me now so I can try to cut the old mounting bolts off to see how beat up my frame is.

Got some feedback that a sleeve with an all thread insert may be too soft for the pin replacement.

I could use a harder bushing and a grade 8 long bolt maybe? I need to get this last old pin out to see how it was assembled...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2021 at 12:12pm
GG,
I have not seen that type of seat. Would be interesting as to how where and when it was added to the tractor! Looks like you would not want yo get your fingers in the pinch points, Good project. You will be happy when complete! Might need some heat to get that stuck pin out??
Are you planning a restoration on the tractor?
Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garden_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2021 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by Sugarmaker Sugarmaker wrote:

GG,
I have not seen that type of seat. Would be interesting as to how where and when it was added to the tractor! Looks like you would not want yo get your fingers in the pinch points, Good project. You will be happy when complete! Might need some heat to get that stuck pin out??
Are you planning a restoration on the tractor?
Regards,
 Chris


Hey Chris! Sorry I missed your response earlier. As far as I know, grandpa put one of these Knoedler seats on every WD he ever owned (but all but this one were gone before I came along) because of how long he spent in the fields and because the stock ones were terrible on his back. I assume he put it on in the 50s, from what he told me probably 20 years ago (he's been gone for 10 years now).

I am doing somewhat of a repair/restoration on it with my cousin's assistance. Not quite going as deep as you did when you rebuilt your WD-45, but everything that is worn down badly I am trying to repair or replace. Already did the brakes, the brake/clutch pedals, the front hubs, the front rims, front tires, various knobs and such, and I've got a new battery box, new muffler, new gauges, repairing the rear rims, working on this seat, and got my hands on some paint. Probably will throw on new wiring while I am at it, as she is rather rough in that department.

I actually had a very productive day on the seat, I've gotten basically everything disassembled and pressed out except for that pin. And a 5 pound hammer with it chucked vertical in a vice, and it wouldn't even budge. Going to see if one of my buddies has a press he can use on it for me, or else get some heat on it.



So other than that, here's me in the middle of taking a dremel and an angle grinder to all the bolts:





So with that done, I had to get these nasty old bearings out. Cue an old trick to doing it with two sockets and a vice I had seen before but never attempted myself. Worked pretty slick.




And my replacement bearings arrived from Steiner, so once I get this pin dealt with and figure out how to fix the boogered/stripped out grease zerks, I will get these new ones pressed in and figure out some mounting hardware for the rest of it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garden_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2021 at 4:46pm
Small update today... Took the stuck pin to my buddy who has a 50 ton press, and he was able to press the pin out. He had to get it over halfway out before it would even want to come out on its own, it was quite stuck.

Yay for progress!
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Yay indeed!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FloydKS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2021 at 6:58pm
This must be the variation to 'a bigger hammer'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garden_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2021 at 8:56am
Yes, a bigger hammer indeed!

I haven't made a lot of progress lately. Been busy. My buddy was going to make me two replacement pins for the seat pivot and maybe fix my grease zerks. Then I'll press in my 4 new seat bearings and get new mounting hardware.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dusty MI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2021 at 9:06am
I've got to look at my D-10 seat, I'm wondering if maybe one could bolt a plate to a D-10 seat then bolt it to the WD ?

Dusty
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garden_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2021 at 10:30am
Interesting question Dusty... Have any pics of that seat? Is it an aftermarket or original?

Well, got my seat bracket back. Got my pin pressed out, two hardened chrome alloy sleeves made, and two long partially threaded bolts for it to ride on (think I'll get some longer ones to get the thread engagement away from the bracket). Then I got the wallered out holes welded up. Here's what she looks like now:





So now I just need to press in the 4 seat bearings and get mounting hardware to bolt it all back together, then it can go to my cousin's paint booth for some Persian Orange #1!


Edited by garden_guy - 14 Apr 2021 at 10:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2021 at 12:04pm
GG,
 Awesome! Coming right along! Having it fixed and then applying  some PO will be the ticket!
Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2021 at 1:01pm
...and don't forget why it has grease zerks.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garden_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2021 at 4:37pm
Sugarmaker -- Thanks Chris! I am looking forward to seeing how the seat looks and feels when she's all painted up and put back together. No more shake and rattle haha.

Steve -- Oh, for sure. The machine shop I went to showed me the general idea of how it is supposed to bolt together (where the sleeve sits just a bit proud of the inner seat bracket carrier) and which surface needs to "spin freely" (the seat is supposed to pivot on the hardened sleeve and not pivot on the bolt that runs through it). The guy at the machine shop redrilled and tapped the zerks for me cuz one was broken off and the other was plugged, so they'll be good to go.


Edited by garden_guy - 15 Apr 2021 at 4:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garden_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2021 at 12:36pm
Okies, small amount of progress after getting some McMaster and Steiner parts... Got my new seat bearings pressed in, and have a bit longer bolts now and heaps of washers and other stuff to play around with how I want to bolt the seat to the two swinging brackets.


Coming together. Hoping to bolt the seat back together for an initial test later this week (will have to tear it back apart for painting afterwards though).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2021 at 12:45pm
GG,
 That looks stout and fresh! I like good repairs, and your doing a good job. how is the rest of the refurb coming along? I usually get in way too far.
Regards,
Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garden_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2021 at 3:54pm
Hey Chris!

Not too much progress on the other stuff, I've been waiting for more parts to come in. I got a replacement filler neck for the thermostat housing due to some bolts snapping off and some gaskets and stuff. But bad weather and waiting for parts slowed me and my cousin down quite a bit. But my new wiring harness came in this week, so hopefully some more progress is just around the corner!
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