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New member..grandfather's HD5

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dadsdozerhd5b View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dadsdozerhd5b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 8:26pm
looks like you take the pin out of the top, pull the round adapter off and the top plate should come off and then you can replace rthe seal. there is an assembly number but not sure where to get one. maybe minn parr? let me know how you make out and post some pics. i have a few of these valves if interested. i am scrapping an almost identical hd5 that is fairly picked over. if you need any other parts, let me know, i may still have it. good luck
HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE.
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heron View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 8:30pm
Thank you...now I see why I couldn't pull it off...I looked for a pin but could not see one, must have to turn it to see it.
Am I reading it right but if it is leaking out from under where it swivels then number 19 should be the one that is bad. Question is can I find the parts for that?
If you do (Dozerdad) have that valve I'd definitely be interested as I really don't like dealing with this thing leaking.
Let me know if you have one like this. On the other hand I'm not sure if I could break the fittings needed without destroying something else... :((
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dadsdozerhd5b View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dadsdozerhd5b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 9:12pm
I definitely have several of these valves. I will get a pic ASAP for you. Number 19 is the seal. Try to find one if you get it apart. Mine leaks a little and I do not worry about it. How much is yours leaking? It is a low pressure system so it cannot be a great seal, and actually the seal group shows an oring which you may be able to replace. The key is to get your apart. Try some of the parts sponsors on the site as they may be able to steer you in the right direction.
HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE.
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heron View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 9:48pm
Now that I know about the pin I won't waste time trying to remove it. I'll probably just use some blue goo to seal up the case once I remove the bolts to get to the seal. Hopefully I can find a quick replacement for the seal.
It's leaking pretty good. Not sure why all of a sudden. My dad says it literally started the day before he got it ready to throw on the trailer for it's trip down south.
I just don't like anything leaking if I can repair it. Although I don't want to open up a can. 

Do you run the universal tractor transmission/ hydraulic in your dozer? Not sure what to put in there. I've got extra of that around and it's the easiest to find.

I think my biggest struggle will be to fix the left track adjustor and free up the shimms that are rusted.

Motor purrs and she has got oodles of power. Almost afraid of breaking something if I run it full out. I'm just waiting for the hydraulic hoses to start breaking. :((

Thanks for all the help!

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heron View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2012 at 10:21pm
Got the valve off the top. Pin pounded out with no problems. I'll have to make a new gasket for the top casing.
I'm thinking the leak must be from the spool not sealing properly b/c there does not seem to be a "real" seal to keep oil from coming up and out from where the top rotates.
It seems like what is in there was simply a wiper to keep dirt out but it doesn't seem to be a tight seal to keep oil in. I'm going to try to source a seal Wednesday and hopefully find something better than what was in there. Wish me luck! Let me know if you come up with anything dozerdad!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 11:36am
Long time since I've posted. Finished building a house, having another child and now it's time to put some time into this HD5. 
I've got all the manuals but I'm not sure on some things. I did add some universal hydraulic/transmission fluid to it. Not sure if that is what did it but as I posted earlier the valve for the blade has been leaking out of the seal on the top under where it swivels. 
Could it be... 1 The fluid is too thin?  2. The fluid is over filled? Should I open up the butterfly on the tank to let the fluid weep out?

My goal this week is to take the blade off and move it under an RV port. Then I plan on changing out the Hydraulic fluid  with fresh fluid, adjusting the clutch band on one side and sizing up track removal.

To make this machine perfect: Replace final drive seals, fix track adjustors and fix loose linkage in transmission.

Are the final drive seals do-able for someone who has no torch? I just purchased some large impact sockets(1-2"), I do have 1/2 impact but nothing larger. I'm planning on getting some additional larger wrenches and some socket adapters to adapt from 1/2" to 3/4". 
Other than a bottle jack (20ton) what else should I have in tools to make this happen?

With the tools in mind where can I find the seals and other parts to fix this machine up?

I during this discussion you guys asked for pics. I do have some pics and will try to attach.  Thanks for any help with this! Aaron
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wayneIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2016 at 3:15am
The hydraulic fluid isn't the problem, the seal hardening from the age and wear from use are the most likely causes for the leakage.  I'm not 100% sure on what is leaking from your description, but I'm assuming you mean it is leaking around the spool, which should have either a seal or an o-ring to seal it and just needs to be replaced.  

As for the final drive seals, you need some large tools to get things apart.  Start with breaking the track (takes a very large hammer and drift punch at the master pin with backing behind the chain so it doesn't bounce when you hit it). It's better to break the chain near the drive sprocket and lay it out ahead of the machine so that you can roll the under carriage ahead on the track chain (may need to jack the frame of the crawler higher to clear some of the truck frame as you roll it ahead, be aware the truck frame alone is probably around 1500 pounds on a 5 roller long frame for a loader.  Then when you get the outboard bearing housing and seals off (recommend replacing the outboard seal when you reassemble), you'll need a very large wrench to get the sprocket nut off (I don't remember what the size is since we made our own wrench, but the torque spec is 1500 foot pounds).  You'll also need a big puller (most likely will need a port-a-power) to break the sprocket loose too since it is seated on tapered splines.  After getting the sprocket off, it's a fairly easy process to remove the final drive seal then and replace.  Make sure you get the drive sprocket properly torqued again when going together too, mine were both loose and had ruined the axles.

Also on the engine, I know a lot of people say that they run 15w-40 oil with no issues, but I've read in the manuals and heard from other people that you should only use straight weight oil in the engine since it is a 2-stroke.  I use 40 weight diesel rated oil from NAPA in both of my 2-strokes (2-71, and 6v92TA).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6GTOM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2016 at 8:26am
Herron a very good pal of mine ran AC dozers all his life. He used straight STP in his final drives. Claimed it did not leak out. He had retired when I bought my first HD6 and gave me a lot of advice. He bought the STP in 5 gallon pails from someplace in Omaha Ne. I bought a porta power with a cylinder to pull tracks back together, works easier than a come a long, a set of 1" sockets, a 1" air wrench, and a bunch of other larger stuff at harbor freight. As I was not using the equipment to make a living I figured the cheaper tools would work for me and they did. This was his advice to me. Just passing it on! Have fun with your tractor.
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heron View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2016 at 12:18pm
Interesting on the STP. I'm wondering what that is as STP is generic for many things these days. I did grab some 1" sockets and some socket adapters for my 1/2" gun. I can get my small compressor out to the dozer but my larger compressor is too far away. I may try my 1/2" electric gun to see if it can break anything on that dozer.  
My main concern is to buy a bunch of things and then find when it comes right down to it doing anything serious with this machine at this point is just too much for my budget. From what my dad and grandfather said the final drives on the AC were always issues and that eventually they always leak. 
I appreciate the input and will try to find out more about the STP in the 5 gallon pails. TY!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeonR2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2016 at 4:00pm
Heron you had mentioned brake fluid way back there, and I can tell you, I've had amazing success with it on dried seals. So get yourself some pint cans of it and try one can in a final, run it and see what happens. If it works put it in the other places you have leaks. Being that the 2 cycle engines were leakers, I'd sure put it it in the engine. Won't hurt a thing. Also about the engine oil, run the best straight weight oil you can find. In hot weather always run 40 weight. I used to run Delo 100 in mine, but I'm sure there's something a lot better now. Do you have a Orscheln or farm and home store in your town or close by? They have some fine oils for what you need. Oh, you were wondering how you were going to get oil in the rollers? They make a gun that looks like a grease gun but with only the stem that goes down the middle. Has about a foot long hose on it, so just stick it in the oil and suck it from the container and squirt it wherever you want to. Easy as pie.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidnTenIll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2016 at 4:09pm
Carquest 85010 oil filter element. Baldwin PF 906 secondary fuel filter. Have to look up primary. All available thru Carquest or Baldwin dealers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidnTenIll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2016 at 4:56pm
Carquest 85010 lube. Baldwin PF 906 secondary fuel. 15 w 40 diesel oils are not adequate for older detroit diesels. Should be 30 or 40w rotella T1 or equiv.Forget 1st fuel filter number but it was available also. Hope this helpful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2016 at 6:02pm
I prefer 40w for Detroits as they get thin on lube anyway, 30w is fine for cooler weather.   Most of the engines I worked on were worn slick, the heavier oil helped keep some lubrication when the engines heated up.

I get my Baldwin filters online the Filter Associates, they have had all the oddball Allis specific filters I have needed to date.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wayneIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2016 at 5:07am
The final drive seals are actually a rubber wrapped spring loaded cage that puts tension on 2 machined flat steel plates.  Either the steel to steel surface is worn and leaking, or there is a hole through the rubber cage wrapper, in either case a rubber expanding compound probably isn't going to fix the leak.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2016 at 10:44pm
Yikes, not sure why I wasn't receiving any alerts to your posts...?  
I got the blade off today, pressure washed her up, I've never seen this machine so clean. The old yellow paint job(my dad did in 71) was flaking off and I found the HD5 AC Diesel on the back of the fuel tank. I know my grandfather would be happy. 

Now the bad, when I went to move the machine into the RV port noticed lots of oil coming out the bottom. Turns out one of the oil lines from the lubefiner oil filter canister rotted away and opened up under the floor pan. So, spent the good part of the evening removing the lines from the 90 right under the battery on the left up to the engine. All original stuff, never had a wrench on it in it's lifetime. 

Here is a question: Can I replace the metal lines with rubber tranny lines as the original lines literally came apart when I tried to work them out from under the clutch lever. 
OR, would the machine be better served if I eliminate the large lubefiner filter and mount a new oil filter head and use and updated oil filter? If so, any suggestions on filter head size and micron ratings I should look for in a filter? 

A few years back when I got the dozer I learned from a member the final drives seals won't expand with brake fluid.  I wish there was an easier fix. 
This machine really has lots of life left, not to mention it's not all beat up like many I've seen over the years. I'm just hoping I can get the tracks off and fix those seals. 
I'm also really afraid the track adjustors will take a lot without the right setup(torches esp.) I think when I start to try to turn the nuts things will begin to round off pretty quickly. 
Any advice would be appreciated fellas! 


Edited by heron - 24 Sep 2016 at 10:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2016 at 10:50pm
David,
Not sure what you are replying too. I've got a large primary Cat filter I installed under the seat. Are you saying the Baldwin 906 will go in the original fuel filter housing on the motor? Currently I have nothing in there. If memory serves on this thread I posted I was missing a spring or something in the factory secondary fuel filter.. 


Edited by heron - 24 Sep 2016 at 11:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2016 at 11:22pm
Sorry I missed this post. I'll get 40 wt from Napa and get away from the 15W40. 
 I'll have to look over the track removal as my dad says they always had torches and things to work on the machines. Closest thing I have is a hand held torch. 
I think the spool leakage is because the hydraulic was over filled before the machine was delivered to me. When I opened up the butterfly on the tank lots of fluid came out. It still seems to be leaking but I'm hoping it's residual from the over fill. Plus it was filled with the univeral tractor fluid, I'm not sure if that stuff is too thin for this machine.. plus it was mixed with who knows what and it's been in there for at least 50 years. One of my simple goals was to change out the hydraulic but now I have to fix my oil filter lines. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless (ne) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 3:08am
I had numerous hyd hoses that replaced the steel lines on my HD5. worked all the years I owned it. and I ran 30 wt non detergent oil year around in it. and like any other motorized machine to this day, I always check the oil level before starting any engine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless (ne) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 3:11am
oh....also....on the track tighteners, I had a machine shop cut the screw tighteners, and weld a new section on, and that lengthened the tightener screw more for more adjustment. worked very well. don't take much. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 10:09am
Not sure as this thread is kind of mixed up but I was asking about whether I can change out the steel lines that go to the oil filter and replace them with rubber as getting steel ones bent to fit with the correct flange sizes.Not to mention I broke the lines all to pieces when I pulled them out. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wayneIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 9:22pm
Shouldn't be an issue using some hydraulic hose to replace the steel to the lube-finer, could probably just disconnect it though if you aren't going to use the crawler that much.  All my equipment I have with the lube-finer has it disconnected and I just make sure to change the oil more often.  My crawler doesn't have one on it so I'm not exactly sure how it is plumbed into the engine, but if like on the tractors and combines, you just disconnect the lines and plug the engine ports.  You can just leave it mounted (for appearance) and unless someone gets really nosy, they'll never know it isn't hooked up.  I've only seen the crawler lube-finer in pictures where it is mounted on the battery box, and I'm assuming that is how yours is.  My crawler has just a smaller canister engine oil filter on it under the hood on the left rear side of the engine.

Edited by wayneIA - 25 Sep 2016 at 9:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeonR2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 9:53pm
The large Luberfiner filter was replaced with a spin on filter #777B. Baldwins # is different I think but you can cross reference the # to any other filter maker. You would need the matching filter base and be convenient to put anywhere.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2016 at 6:48am
Luberfiner filters are bypass filters only, they do not filter the entire lube oil flow.  I took many of these off highway equipment years ago as oils and additives in oils became better where the need of them became less.  My 7G has a canister oil filter, I will probably keep it until they no longer make them as it sits in a vulnerable location on the engine to the outside.  To put a spin on would be handy but could end up losing the engine I am running.  I have considered making and installing a remote location mount/canister replacement set up but that is time consuming and difficult at best to achieve proper function.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeonR2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 2:43pm
About the track adjusters, my 5 had two cinch bolts that kept the adjuster from moving. Rent, beg, or borrow a torch. That machine hasn't had the track adjusted in 20-30 years? So it needs some help and heat will do it. And it could take a bunch. Allis made a special wrench to adjust the tracks with. It was only about a foot long and was heavy enough to put any length cheater pipe on it. The head of it was curved so you could get a bigger movement out of the adjuster. When you get it apart drill holes in everything and put in grease zerks. You'll be glad you did every time you go to adjust the tracks. By the way you can probably get a adjuster wrench from several of the guys who deal in the 5's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 9:14am
Yes, I'm pretty sure I have that wrench or my dad still has it in his garage someplace. My father said it had to be re-shimmed. Yes, torch should be my friend but now I'm trying to find a place to rent a torque wrench for the sprocket bolts if I get that far. 
I've got a mobile mechanic coming to take a look at it Thurs morning. Not sure if that will work out as my wife is on my case about dumping money into something that I don't and will not use. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wayneIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 12:47am
To torque the sprockets on my HD-5 I just calculated how many pounds I needed on the end of the wrench we built to come up with a torque value.  May be hard to find a torque wrench that will work on it since you won't find many sockets deep enough to reach over the axle to the nut.  If I remember correctly, and didn't mess my math up double checking, I had a 6' wrench and needed 250 pounds on it to make 1500 pounds of torque.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 9:39am
was just reading and seen it said that the hydralics were over filled ,    could it have water in the bottom ? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 11:10am
rear sprocket torque , have a adjustable nut wrench (like large pipe wrench with smooth jaws) put that on and then 10 ft piece of 2" pipe over handle - figured 10' out from nut center - then my 180 pounds onto pipe = 1800 lb torque on nut . 
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