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D15 a challenge to keep running |
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west illini
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Jan 2022 Location: Camp Point, IL Points: 16 |
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Posted: 25 Jan 2022 at 7:26am |
New member here, so bear with me .
I have a D15 that my grandpa bought new that has become a challenge to keep running . A few weeks ago I started to have to use the choke more often to start and keep going. Last week on the grain auger after running a while it would up and die. It would also die if I tried to adjust the choke at all . I took the carb off and gave it thorough cleaning. It ran ok but then would do the same up and die ing after a few minutes . Adjusting the high idle does not help or change any thing . There is good fuel flow out the carb drain and the line between the tank and carb To eliminate the electrical system, ive replaced the points , condenser, rotor , distributor cap, and coil, as I felt like I was just chasing things This morning it started right up in the shop and ran perfect . Throttle up … perfect . As an experiment I rehooked the old coil . It started but then went to sputtering again , and died upon throttling up I put the new coil back on , and wouldn’t start. … leading me back to the carb And help and and advice is appreciated. Engines are not my specialty, but I can find my way around Edited by west illini - 25 Jan 2022 at 7:28am |
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Dean(IA)
Silver Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: NE Iowa Points: 424 |
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My brother had a D-15II with the same problem. He had replaced the fuel line from the sediment bowl to the carburetor with a rubber hose. The inside of the hose was coming apart and pieces were messing up the carburetor. A fuel resistant hose is the only thing that will work or a metal line. HTH
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Dean(IA)
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west illini
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Jan 2022 Location: Camp Point, IL Points: 16 |
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I’ve been looking at the hose, I think I’ll do it next
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rasman57
Silver Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Illinois Points: 367 |
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I tend to have good luck with the old adage " If you think it is fuel related it probably is electrical"
Check the wires at the ignition switch..When it dies, does it die out like the key goes to off or sputter like not getting fuel? Edited by rasman57 - 25 Jan 2022 at 7:40am |
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rasman57
Silver Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Illinois Points: 367 |
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Also check the bottom of the tank for anything that could possibly be partially moving around near the outlet blocking flow intermittently. My old Case had a metal washer that mysteriously was sliding around a bit creating "carb problems". Wasn't until I drained the tank that I found it. Good luck.
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west illini
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Jan 2022 Location: Camp Point, IL Points: 16 |
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It sputters like fuel , not like the key shut off
The fuel line is called “ fuel “ hose , but will replace it. I’ll check the tank better for anything in bottom |
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west illini
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Jan 2022 Location: Camp Point, IL Points: 16 |
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It sputters like fuel , not like the key shut off
The fuel line is called “ fuel “ hose , but will replace it. I’ll check the tank better for anything in bottom |
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AC720Man
Orange Level Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 4635 |
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Finding good points and condenser’s these days is hit and miss. After several sets and a new rotor and button, Charlie switched it over the electronic ignition. Runs like a champ now.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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jvin248
Silver Level Joined: 17 Jan 2022 Location: Detroit Points: 265 |
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. How old is the fuel? Has the tractor set for several months? It's hard to find non-ethanol fuel these days. What happens is the ethanol extracts water and then rusts the carb bowl or gets gelantinized like goo and plugs the carb. The 'fuel stabilizers' do not seem to offer any advantage per some tests I saw. The fuel has all gotten worse -- I took twelve year old gas out of a sitting tractor and replaced it with new fuel to get it running again after repairs (old family tractor) that smelled like varnish but mixing 50/50 burned fine in the lawn mower while year and a half old modern fuel in a zero-turn gave all kinds of problems and funky viscosity, only used it to clean parts off. .
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west illini
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Jan 2022 Location: Camp Point, IL Points: 16 |
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It gets gas put in it every week or two. When hauling grain it burns through a tank in a day and a half or 2 . ( it gets used year round ) .
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dp7000
Bronze Level Joined: 26 Sep 2021 Location: Winchester Kent Points: 132 |
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I’d switch the coil out with one from something else that’s running. I’ve had coils that acted weird like that?
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john(MI)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: SE MI Points: 9263 |
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Did you ever clean the fuel bowl? Trust me, cheapest are always easiest and bestest!
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D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
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west illini
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Jan 2022 Location: Camp Point, IL Points: 16 |
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I haven’t cleaned the bowl out yet, as Dad in the past, and I sometimes have a hard time getting that gasket to seal again. I just checked again and there is full fuel flow out of the new fuel line I just put on , from the bowl.
I did have it running this evening, for about a minute, till it died I took about a half minute video of it kind of hoping it would catch it dying, and it did. After that, it would run with the starter. Let off the button it dies. Press button again it runs while starter is engaged, until finally no fire. After this is when I checked fuel flow and the carb drain plug to Mayr sure there’s gas, and there was |
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Jacob (WI,ND)
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Kenmare, ND Points: 1244 |
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It may sound silly, but have you checked the gas flow out the carb for an extended period of time? Not just for a second, let it flow for a minute or more into a pail. If it is something floating around in the tank that often takes more than a few second test for flow. Have you taken a light and looked down into the tank for something blocking the outlet? It sure sounds fuel related to me and not electrical. Clean the fuel bowl even if you need to get/make a new gasket. It should be crystal clear. It may not be the issue here, but it won't hurt anything, and is something that is often needing to be done anyway. When you cleaned the carb out, did you test to see if the float was good/no holes in it?
Gas cap venting properly? Try running with cap loose, if problem goes away, the vent is blocked. Edited by Jacob (WI,ND) - 25 Jan 2022 at 7:20pm |
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Jacob Swanson
1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45 |
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Steve in NJ
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Andover, NJ Points: 11538 |
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You changed all the ignition parts, but did you replace the spark plugs? Sometimes an old set of plugs will make the engine run like crap, and you pull your hair out and think its something else. Install a new set of plugs like NGK's or Autolites and see how it runs. If you replaced the plugs already and its still doing the same thing, you might have water in the fuel. Toss a half a bottle of Isopropyl dry gas in the tank with some fresh fuel and see how it runs... HTH
Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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EPALLIS
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Illinois Points: 1105 |
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The same exact thing happened to me with my D-15 Series II a few years back. I did exactly what Dean IA did and it's been running perfect for the last 5 years. See below. Good luck!
My brother had a D-15II with the same problem. He had replaced the fuel line from the sediment bowl to the carburetor with a rubber hose. The inside of the hose was coming apart and pieces were messing up the carburetor. A fuel resistant hose is the only thing that will work or a metal line. |
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west illini
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Jan 2022 Location: Camp Point, IL Points: 16 |
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I’ll do a longer time fuel check
Plugs were replaced I just checked again now, and no spark off the coil wire After supper go over things again |
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west illini
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Jan 2022 Location: Camp Point, IL Points: 16 |
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I think it’s solved . I ended up not having any volts at the coil. So I traced that wire to the key switch. The wire had pulled off the spade terminal . It was laying at the end of the spade just enough to run if nudged against it.
I slid it on the spade and has run perfect since . The ignition tune up didn’t hurt it any also Thank you to all all who suggestions and helped out Edited by west illini - 26 Jan 2022 at 6:55am |
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corbinstein
Orange Level Joined: 31 Jul 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 796 |
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Had a similar issue. turned out the key switch had burned up inside. I had volts at the coil, but not enough amperage to do squat.
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DaveKamp
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5637 |
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Good to see you finally found it... sorry to see you had to go around the block many times to get to the problem. I'll make a suggestion for everyone on this- troubleshooting depends on taking logical steps to prove and disprove systems. Throwing parts at something hurts, rather than helps troubleshooting, and any success gained in process of throwing parts, merely masks the real problem. There's a very basic recipie for a running engine, with two major branches (Fuel and ignition) that are the most frequent denizens. When an engine ceases to run, the first step is to check for ignition. Lift a plug wire, connect a spare plug, and crank the engine. IF there's no spark, your immediate problem is not fuel. Once spark is known, the next step is to reconnect the plug, and apply a shot of something flammable to the carb inlet and see if it hits. IF it does, then compression and ignition are not the problem. The replacement of all ignition parts makes a very bad assumption... that replacement of those parts means they're out of the equation. In reality, this is NOT true. IN carrying the fallacy further, most assume that replacement of all things ignition means that it MUST be fuel... which we know by this exercise, is also not true. An additional note: the ignition system on many machines is not just an on/off thing.. there's TWO ignition power contacts in the switch- one that provides power during run, the other that provides power during START. If you take the switch apart, it all may be one long wiping contact, but there's two contact positions, the RUN contact spends HOURS in that position, while the START contact area sees very little wear. It is this fact, that causes the 'hits when cranking, doesn't when running', or bizzare 'magically shut itself off' or 'has an attitude after rebuilding carb and ignition'. In this case, it wasn't a worn contact, but the spade terminal off. One other funky thing that happens... with a worn contact, comes resistance, which is a limit of current flow AND generation of local heat. If you see a wire on the back of a switch, and the wire is all melted or brittle, it's a pretty good indicator that the switch's contacts are not doing so well inside, and that wire is getting warm, and whatever it's supposed to power, is not doing so great. And then there's mice. Damned mice. They're as bad as plumbing...
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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west illini
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Jan 2022 Location: Camp Point, IL Points: 16 |
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I agree with your synopsis. The thing that threw me was, each time I checked the coil, it was 12.7v. Till this last time. There was nothing, which caused me to trace back that wire, finding my problem
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DanWi
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Location: wttn Points: 1703 |
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Loose or corroded electrical connections or bad wire can be a pita. We would be better at this stuff if we had the meters and knew how to check amps and ohms thru wires. Sometimes we have to stumble on these things like finding the wide coming off. Thing that complicates this is vibration and it works when cold but not when warmed up.
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AC720Man
Orange Level Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 4635 |
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Glad you got it figured out. A few different things could have caused that same issue. Electrical issues can drive a man nuts. In the telecommunications industry that I’m in you had what is referred to as a high open. Making contact, but not enough contact to complete the circuit at all times. If my customers say sometimes the line is nice and quite and other times it’s full of static and no dial tone then I know what I’m looking for. Thankfully good meters help me find those issues but it can be difficult to find sometimes. Old wiring on these 50 plus year old tractors can be a challenge. Upgrading to a new wiring harness would be in our best interest when they get frail.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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DiyDave
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 50488 |
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Re the electrical problems, remember on a key switch, that it is primarily designed to have little or no weight on it. When I see a pound of keys hanging from the key ring, I immediately question the switch...
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Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!
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west illini
Bronze Level Joined: 24 Jan 2022 Location: Camp Point, IL Points: 16 |
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I always say I can see a fluid leak , but cannot see an electrical leak . Drives me crazy
Edited by west illini - 26 Jan 2022 at 7:07pm |
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Jacob (WI,ND)
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Kenmare, ND Points: 1244 |
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Glad you figured it out! Guess my advice was really barking up the wrong tree, LOL! Diagnosing those spits and sputters sure can be frustrating.
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Jacob Swanson
1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45 |
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DaveKamp
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5637 |
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AMEN! It doesn't often happen on tractors, mostly happens this way on automobiles and trucks where the primary occupant's occupation is supervisory to a point where they have lots of keys to be responsible for. A buddy that used to work in a spring/shock/suspension shop told me about a customer who came in and wanted stronger springs put on the left side of the car. After much discussion, the owner's WIFE revealed that the husband, who drove the car most often, weighed significantly more than she did, and whenever he went to drive the car, it would frequently not start, but when he got out, and she climbed in, it would start just fine for her. They came to the conclusion that since she was barely 95lbs, and he was on the high side of 360, that the left-ish tilt of the car was the problem.... When the real problem, was that he was a school custodian, and had three dozen keys on his key-ring, and the ignition switch barrel was so worn, that the heavy stack of keys was pulling the switch out of alignment bad enough to make the contacts lose pressure. When drawing conclusions, always remember: All cats have four legs... All dogs have four legs... Therefore, all dogs must be cats.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Prairie City Ia Points: 10508 |
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I hear you on that one Dave. All through my years at the dealership, 99% of the time women were the ones with 50lbs of stuff on their key ring. Once in a while you get that guy with a wad of keys.
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