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D-17 Series 1 slow hydraulics

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WF owner View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 Nov 2020 at 9:15am
I recently bought a D-17 Series 1 and a trip loader. The trip loader wasn't on the tractor when I bought it. I put the loader frame and the loader on this past weekend and the loader, and the lift arms, raise very slowly.

When I got it, it was low on both hydraulic fluid and transmission/rear end gear oil. Both levels have been filled to where they should be. Hydraulics are still very slow.

Is there a screen that needs to be cleaned or do I need to rebuild the hydraulic pump?

I would love to find a fully hydraulic loader with a front mounted pump.
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Strokendiesel002 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strokendiesel002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2020 at 9:32am
I think the Series 1-3 internal hydro is only 1.5GPM

Front mounted pump for "live hydro" is an upgrade that would serve will now and make raiser the transition later.

I recently acquired a 417 front end loader that came off the series 4. As this is the case I had to start from scratch for the live hydraulic/ front mounted pump. There is a nice write-up in the other section of the forum from another member.

I am almost done adding the front pump to mine and posted a few pictures of some of the modifications I had to make to the bolster.

Good luck and let's see some pictures!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldfords Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2020 at 9:48am
I thought someone may find this
helpful.


I
purchased a 1958 D17 some 25 years ago with a Westendorf WL20 loader with a
rear PTO pump. This worked fine for me but my kids and son-in-laws can’t seem
to understand how to leave the clutch alone and use the power director to
control the movement of the tractor. So I decided to replace the WL20 with an
Allis 517 loader. I was able to obtain one from a guy in Iowa who is on this
forum. After driving 1600 miles round trip, I got it home and began the switch.
This loader had been installed on a series IV D17 with the spacers and with my
old tractor I knew I would not need to use the spacers.


The
first problem I encountered was that I needed to notch the side frame to accommodate
the bolts that mount the front of the engine to the tractor. (see
picture 1) That done
I next installed the rear frames. Since the frames on a series IV bolt outside
the fenders, and on my old 17 they bolt on the inside of the fenders. This
required that I cut and redrill the underneath crossover angle. After getting
all this mounted, I find that I needed to notch the rear frame so the brake
pedal could go down. (see picture 2) Since this loader had no oil
reservoir, I used the oil tank from the Westendorf . It was set up for the rear
PTO pump, so I turned it around so the oil nipples were now facing the front.
It measures 16” x 16” x 4” and holds about 4.5 gal. I bolted it to the rear
loader frame with a 2” spacer under it so I have about 8” of oil above the
inlet to the pump.  (see
picture 3) I welded
a piece of pipe on the reservoir flange and slipped a welded 90 deg piece of
pipe over it so I could mount the 3 spool valve. When I had it where I wanted,
I drilled and bolted the two pieces of pipe together so it could not turn. (see
picture 4) I welded
a flat plate on another small piece of pipe to hold the valve itself and it is
held in place with a set screw. (see picture 5) I opted to have the valve on the
left side so I can run the loader and the power director at the same time, and
a three spool valve so I can install a grapple fork. Next the pump itself. My
tractor is old enough that I had to change the crank pulley to accept the
splined hub. I did not know at the time, but there is a kit available minus the
pump and pulley on this forum. I chose a pump that delivers 23 gpm and a three
spool valve with float that will pass 30 gpm. The pump I used matched the
mounting plate perfect but it covered the holes used to mount the plate to the
tractor. I was able to grind the pump flange on one side so I could use an
allen head bolt. There was no way to make the other side fit because of the
valve body. I used ½” ready rod and bottomed it out in the tractor housing. I
then tapped the hole in the mounting plate and installed a ½” heli coil. I slid
the spacer on the ready rod and then screwed the mounting plate on the ready
rod. When it tightened up against the spacer, I installed the other spacer and
bolt. I then ground off and excess ready rod and mounted the pump. The ready
rod cannot work in because it is bottomed out in the housing. It cannot work
out because it is against the pump body.


With a
1” suction and a ½” pressure line it all works great.

I would have attached the pictures but I don't know how
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2020 at 12:14pm
Original high pressure (3,000+ psi) belly pump was 4 to 4.5 GPM. If the lift arms are slow and hydraulic sump (right side under the fuel tank) is full, it must be pump issues or maybe a screen, but you do them both while apart. Those lift arms with warm oil should lift in 2 seconds bottom to top with the engine throttled up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 4:03pm
After I used they hydraulics (loader) and parked it, there was a huge puddle of oil under the tractor from the bell housing area all the way to the rear end. I'm wondering if the internal hose could be leaking or if it is a different problem.

Again, this is a tractor I just bought and have practically no time on it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 9:22pm
You have three places to check oil level. The hydraulic compartment is under the fuel tank on the right side. The Power Director/PTO gears are at the left corner of the instrument panel and takes a 7/8" wrench. The transmission/differential and lift arm cylinder and internal hose are to the right of the gearshift. Surely, one of these is low on oil level if you have a leak ??????????????

Edited by DrAllis - 23 Nov 2020 at 9:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 7:58am
Doc, I finally got down there during daylight to check. 

The hydraulic fill, under the gas tank, is still full.

The Power Director/ PTO gears (dipstick with 7/8" nut) is full (actually over full and milky).

The other, 1/4 turn, cap (dipstick is missing) appears to be low and I suspect that is where the oil came from. I had filled it, by sight, until there was about 1" of fluid showing in the bottom of the sump and there is nothing showing in the sump now.  As you can see in the photo below, there was a significant amount of oil that leaked out.

My hydraulics are still very slow. It took me about a minute to raise the loader about 4' (fluid cold). Do you think I have two separate problems? Where should I start?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 8:04am
If the hydraulic compartment is full of oil and the oil is of proper viscosity (a 20W or a Trans/Hydraulic oil) and the lift arms themselves take much more that 2 or 3 seconds to raise with the engine throttled up, the hyd pump must have issues. There may be a screen, depends on the actual age of the tractor and whether someone has been into it before. Your oil leak has nothing to do with the hydraulics lack of speed. Look at the PTO shaft seal area.

Edited by DrAllis - 06 Dec 2020 at 8:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 8:14am
Thank you Doc !!!
I will try to do something on it this week and I will let you know what I find.
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