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JaredC(WI) 
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Joined: 10 Apr 2019
Location: Birnamwood WI
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 Topic: Any of you northern guys frost seed?
Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 10:41am |
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My little hay field needs some attention as it doesn't produce nearly as it once did. I've never over seeded it, fertilized it, or really gave it much thought (I'm inexperienced/ignorant about a lot :) )
Have been reading about frost seeding in the spring and wonder in any of you all do that.
The hay field is (was) a mix of red clover, alfalfa, and grass. I have some small bare high spots and golden rod is moving in. We feed pickey fineky goats that eat more like a horse than the stereotypical goat!
Any advice appreciated. Don't really want to plow it all up and replant if I don't have too.
Jared
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Tbone95
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Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Location: Michigan
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Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 10:58am |
No, I have never frost seeded. I would recommend you get a soil test done before you put any new seeds down. In the long run, it's a very cheap way to get a lot of information. And they can help you interpret the results and how to do it as well. If you do reseed, I would not put alfalfa in there unless it is virtually gone. Within the second year, alfalfa becomes auto toxic to new alfalfa.
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HD6GTOM
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Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Location: MADISON CO IA
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Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 9:43pm |
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Dad always seeded red clover in Dec-Feb. Worked good. Get a snow on top of the seed. He always said clover seed needs to be frozen to get a good germination. It must work. Did I say I hated picking up clover bales. They are dirty but cows love them.
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john(MI)
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Location: SE MI
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Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 9:50pm |
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Back when I was a youngster growing up in rural WI. the farmers seemed to turn over hay fields like that. Usually planted corn in place of the hay. Now that was a lot of years ago so maybe with all the new chemicals, etc, you don't need to rotate crops anymore?
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shameless dude
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Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 12:52am |
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every 2-4 years i'd take an old straight disk, put it straight (not "V"ed) and run across the fields and split the crowns. worked great!
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Tbone95
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Location: Michigan
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Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 7:27am |
 HD6GTOM wrote:
Dad always seeded red clover in Dec-Feb. Worked good. Get a snow on top of the seed. He always said clover seed needs to be frozen to get a good germination. It must work. Did I say I hated picking up clover bales. They are dirty but cows love them. |
Meh.....clover grows like a weed!   They do get dirty/dusty, that's for sure. Makes better pasture (like alsike clover) than hay IMO. A rain on the windrow and it loses way more quality than some other species.
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JaredC(WI)
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Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 10:11am |
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Yeah, a soil test is definitely needed. Would like to know what exactly we have to work with.
Had heard that about the alfalfa. If I understand it correctly the established alfalfa would kill any that we tried to plant? So any seed mix that included alfalfa seed wouldn't make sense to use as the alfalfa seed would just be wasted?
That's pretty cool that they seeded in the middle of winter like that! Love the disc idea, too!
Like I said, I'm new-ish to this sort of stuff :) Eager to learn and experiment some.
Jared
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JaredC(WI)
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Location: Birnamwood WI
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Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 10:19am |
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John, almost everybody still does that here. Even the big mega farms though they seem to do it way less often. More like every 5 years or so compared to the smaller farms that do so every other or every two years.
They kill off the hay, put in corn for a year or so, back in with hay, and repeat. Always plowing it up in between though. Not too much no till stuff that I see though cover crops seem to be becoming a bit more common.
Jared
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Tbone95
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Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 11:02am |
JaredC(WI) wrote:
Had heard that about the alfalfa. If I understand it correctly the established alfalfa would kill any that we tried to plant? So any seed mix that included alfalfa seed wouldn't make sense to use as the alfalfa seed would just be wasted?
Jared |
Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. If you have large bare spots, it would probably be OK, but if the old alfalfa is there but sparse, you may have trouble. In my neck of the woods, usually to establish and keep alfalfa going you need lime and potash. The soil test will tell you that. If you want a grass alfalfa mix, I usually start out by getting the alfalfa going and the grass will more/less take care of itself. When the alfalfa starts to thin out, I do more of a fertilizer for a mix, and the alfalfa will keep thinning out. I try to keep a hay field 6 years or so. More / less depending on weather, condition, budget, etc.......
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Lars(wi)
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Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 6:54pm |
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yes, the age old method of 'crop rotation' was 1 year corn, then 1 year oats w/ alfalfa under, then that field that was oats-alfalfa its 2nd year was alfalfa, 3rd year plow under to plant corn, repeat. that method never needed insecticide, and very little nitrogen. my grandpa never had corn in the same field 2 years in a row.
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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Tbone95
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Location: Michigan
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Posted: 18 Apr 2019 at 8:37am |
Lars(wi) wrote:
yes, the age old method of 'crop rotation' was 1 year corn, then 1 year oats w/ alfalfa under, then that field that was oats-alfalfa its 2nd year was alfalfa, 3rd year plow under to plant corn, repeat. that method never needed insecticide, and very little nitrogen. my grandpa never had corn in the same field 2 years in a row.
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"Very little nitrogen", well OK, what grain yield of corn? A bag of alfalfa seed now is more money per acre than the supplemental nitrogen and herbicide (yes, I know YOU said insecticide) combined. Economically crazy to plow under in less than 3 years IMO. Not even intensive dairy guys around here plow under alfalfa after only 1 year.
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JaredC(WI)
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Location: Birnamwood WI
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Posted: 19 Apr 2019 at 10:37am |
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It's interesting how things have changed over the years, that's for sure.
Now-a-days, chemicals, engineered seeds, and more and more equipment are needed to keep a farm profitable. Before that close observation of the relationship between different plants and animals were what you had to rely on.
Even differences between farming practices in the northern vs southern states is pretty neat. Main thing I can think of is burning. Nobody does that up here but it's a real common thing to do elsewhere.
Jared
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