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Starting a diesel engine, especially cold question

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Tbone95 View Drop Down
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Joined: 31 Aug 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 8:35am
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

Again, each engine design has its correct way of cold starting. Different fuel injection systems is one difference. Another is DIRECT injection or PRE-COMBUSTION chamber, of which there must be at least half-dozen different ways to do that.  Manifold heaters and actual glow plugs inside the combustion chamber is something else to consider. For those who think 15W-40 is a Winter use engine oil, try an oil change of 10W-30 diesel oil and you won't believe how much faster the engine cranks on a zero degree morning. Faster cranking means easier starting !!
10W 30 flows better than 15w40 flows better than SAE30.  No argument here.
 
I don't use the 7045 much in the winter, so the 15w40 stays in it.  A couple hours of block heater, good batteries/cables/ground/starter, and it spins good and starts IF I need it.
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DMiller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 8:42am
Does not really matter where the throttle is on a cold start of ANY diesel. The governor as the cranking starts is at FULL Fuel until the engine comes up to speed, that is just normal, cranking until see oil pressure with the fuel shut off will allow oil pressure to come up prior to a harsh start but even during cranking there is a period of low oil flow with lack of lubrication to some components, just a fact of internal combustion engines life.

As to going WOT on a cold block, at least allow the head to start to warm prior to hard throttling as the heat and sudden pressure could cause stress fracture cracking and Yes, a block heater aids all these as well gasoline engines in winter.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 9:01am
Originally posted by DMiller DMiller wrote:

Does not really matter where the throttle is on a cold start of ANY diesel. The governor as the cranking starts is at FULL Fuel until the engine comes up to speed, that is just normal, cranking until see oil pressure with the fuel shut off will allow oil pressure to come up prior to a harsh start but even during cranking there is a period of low oil flow with lack of lubrication to some components, just a fact of internal combustion engines life.

As to going WOT on a cold block, at least allow the head to start to warm prior to hard throttling as the heat and sudden pressure could cause stress fracture cracking and Yes, a block heater aids all these as well gasoline engines in winter.

As Dr said above, different fuel injection systems require different procedures. Some do indeed require throttle movement to at least 1/3 travel to put it into start fuel position.
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Tbone95 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 10:23am
Originally posted by DMiller DMiller wrote:

Does not really matter where the throttle is on a cold start of ANY diesel. The governor as the cranking starts is at FULL Fuel until the engine comes up to speed, that is just normal, cranking until see oil pressure with the fuel shut off will allow oil pressure to come up prior to a harsh start but even during cranking there is a period of low oil flow with lack of lubrication to some components, just a fact of internal combustion engines life.

As to going WOT on a cold block, at least allow the head to start to warm prior to hard throttling as the heat and sudden pressure could cause stress fracture cracking and Yes, a block heater aids all these as well gasoline engines in winter.

Come on up (we could use some time anyway), and I'll let you start one specific tractor of mine when it's nice and MI cold, 1 day with no throttle move, the next day you can move it up.  Once you do that, see if you still think it doesn't matter. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CrestonM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 11:21am
I saw the original post and got excited, because I've wondered the same thing, but about Allis 433I and 2800 engines....now I'm still confused...seems about like asking which shade of orange is "correct"...everyone has a preference. 
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Tbone95 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 11:47am
True Creston, but in this case, it's the equipment that has the preference, and it's up to you to learn it! Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC7060IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 11:53am
Originally posted by pinball pinball wrote:

excess fuel while trying to start it will wash down the cylinder walls.
That's the way it was always explained to me. Likewise, excessively long cranking during startup could do the same cylinder washing. Or, did the improved AC diesel engines (that had piston cooling) have enough crankcase oil pressure during cranking to enable it to be squirted up into cylinder walls? Interesting topic - thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie175 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 1:08pm
My 190xt hates the cold. Same as our 6060.
With my shed not near an outlet, I am looking for other sources of "startup heat"
Charlie

'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 8:09pm
Charlie,if you don't mind mixing coolant,there are quick couplers rigged on pickups that mate to ones on equipment that some guys connect to let the pickup warm the equipment using the cooling system.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie175 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2018 at 6:52am
Originally posted by SteveM C/IL SteveM C/IL wrote:

Charlie,if you don't mind mixing coolant,there are quick couplers rigged on pickups that mate to ones on equipment that some guys connect to let the pickup warm the equipment using the cooling system.....

Interesting.

I might use a Kero heater with a Tarp over the hood to trap the heat. Not a fan of open flame though
Charlie

'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2018 at 5:57pm
Charlie, If you're talkin about a 190, a perfection 500 Kerosene wick heater should be pretty close to slidin right under the oil pan.  Flame is down at the bottom of these, safer than a gas stove, at least...  Don't ask me how I know...Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerkendave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2018 at 9:25pm
Wow guys. Never thought this little question could bring so many answers. I appreciate everyone's insight. Since posting this I have tried throttle open more than normal(1/2) and also tonight just did right above idle. Seems mine likes just above idle. Bumping it up more than that caused excessive black smoke and some coughing/sputtering. Luckily she also gets to sit inside the building which isn't heated but is out of the wind which seems to help. I always plug her in when I know I'll be feeding but sometimes what looks like a lot of hay in the morning is magically gone by that night.

Dr.Allis I'm curious about the 10-30 oil. Is that a safe viscosity to use in the heat of summer (sometimes over 100) while actually working the tractor, say like round baling for extended periods of time? What about going with something like the 5-40 the newer diesels are calling for? That technically would gain me the lower weight when cold but retain the higher weight of the 15-40 when warm right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2018 at 3:52pm
Determine how many Winter starts and hours you will expect the tractor to go thru. 10W-30 is far better than 15W-40 in the Winter if it is a tractor that is expected to start every day. I'd have no problem using it in the Summer months for light work, but for plowing/discing on a 90 degree day it could be border-line light. My Dad didn't put but maybe 25 or 30 hrs on his diesel in the Winter, but it was expected to start when needed and sometimes without much (if any) block heater time. I'd drop the old motor oil from Falls use and replace the oil only (no filters) with straight 10W diesel oil.  We ran that thru the Winter months and when Spring came dropped it out and changed oil and filters back to 15W-40.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerkendave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2018 at 9:28pm
Thank you Dr!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2018 at 6:17pm
I need to correct myself on a previous post. I said I started my XT at 1/2 throttle and come back to a 1/4 upon startup. That is incorrect. Yesterday I started my XT for the first time since hay season ended. 40 degrees, without thinking of the post I had previously put up, I moved the throttle to 1/4, preheat for 30 seconds, turned her over and she almost started immediately. 30 more seconds of preheat, she fired right up and I pulled her back to a 1\8 throttle. It had been a year since my last cold start, obviously I was wrong.
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2018 at 10:38pm
I have a 2-60 White, it has a Fiat engine in it. I try not to use it at all in cold weather. But if I have to, I plug the crank case heater in for at least an hour. It also helps if I put a battery charger on it as well, and switch it to jump while cranking. It seems to help this tractor if you pull the throttle back some, but it don't always work. Sometimes you run the battery down before it starts. In that case, go back in the house for another hour and try it again later. I've spent a half day many times getting this tractor started. I also have a 4835 New Holland. It also has a Fiat engine, but with a block heater. The block heater is far superior over the crank case heater. It still usually needs about an hour, but it's just turn the key and go no problem.
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