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The ones Allis Chalmers did not build

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TREVMAN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TREVMAN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2010 at 9:12pm
A Gleaner conventional based on the M/L design that they were working on in the late 60's, with the 63 inch cylinder . They would have had to beef up the cylinder house, enclose the cylinder to keep dust/dirt out and minimize the vibration problem, add about a foot to the end of the sieves, and put the 516 engine on at about 200hp. They would have sold a ton of them in these parts in the 70's and 80's. Oh well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reeseholler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2010 at 10:30pm
I would have liked to see a higher hp CA without the torque tube. that would be interesting
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rooster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2010 at 1:17pm
i have a huge book from ac from 1914 to the present day of the ones built and the ones that werent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rooster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2010 at 1:19pm
my ca needs a valve job badyou can here it sucking. isnt it the same motor as a b.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2010 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by rooster rooster wrote:

no they made more than that

If they did, and they may have, they were all prototypes. If what you are talking about is the cotton picker D17 with 262 that would be different but it's not a D18. From what I understand the D18 was a D19 prototype that had a lower hood line that made it look like the size of a D17 and the sales people thought it would be too hard to sell a souped up D17 with the added price. A souped D17 it was not cause it had the rear end of what was to become the D19. So they raised the hood line up to make it look bigger and justify, in the farmer's mind, the added cost. If the diesel D18 had a turbo I do not know but I'd guess they did. In the end I'm pretty darn sure non were ever sold unless you count what was sold as scrap.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eric[IL] Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2010 at 2:40pm
A synchronized transmission in the standard transmission category.  I speed shift my 7060's power director when hauling wagons down the road.  Sometimes I find the gear and sometimes I don't. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rooster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2010 at 5:53pm
my 7030 is like that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BG1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2021 at 4:35pm
I know this is a long shot since these posts are so old. I am wondering if you have any idea of what the value of a 6095 prototype might be. I have reason to believe I own one. My father was a proving grounds head engineer in SE Wisconsin for Allis.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2021 at 5:12pm
Nice to see this info on your 6095, doubt theres much $$$$$ value as Allis isnt there for support and Agco doesnt know about that - if yours is a true 6095 it has to have an Allis 301,  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2021 at 7:53pm
welcome to the forum. Have any stories or info or anything allis to share with us
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2021 at 8:26pm
Interesting old post, The 8000 and 6000 series were good tractors and with improvements could have been great tractors. Economics of the 80’s killed them, not many companies survived that bad era. Allis made good engines, transmissions not so much. Guess that’s why they brought Fiat in for 6000 series. A power shift trans in the 6000 series would have been sweet as well as hydraulic pto. Love our 6060 but those 2 things would have made it a great tractor.
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DSeries4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2021 at 9:07pm
Originally posted by AC720Man AC720Man wrote:

Interesting old post, The 8000 and 6000 series were good tractors and with improvements could have been great tractors. Economics of the 80’s killed them, not many companies survived that bad era. Allis made good engines, transmissions not so much. Guess that’s why they brought Fiat in for 6000 series. A power shift trans in the 6000 series would have been sweet as well as hydraulic pto. Love our 6060 but those 2 things would have made it a great tractor.


The reason for using Fiat powertrains had nothing to do with transmission quality.  By using an existing powertrain, AC was able to save a ton of time and money rather than having to design, test and buy tooling to build their own new powertrain.  Right out of Norm's book.
'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2021 at 9:21pm
That is a true statement, however having a non synchronized transmission in previous models put AC behind. Farmers went elsewhere seeking better drivability and ranges in the field. Just saying, I wish Allis would have built their own synchronized transmission instead relying on a another foreign built one. American made.
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote victoryallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2021 at 9:40pm
Wish they chopped 2 cylinders off the 426 instead of the 301.  Different gear layout on 6000 series.  4th and reverse intermediate is to slow for loader work 1st high and reverse too fast for loader work.   3rd remote on 6000 series if you have two tied up with loader your sol.   

The biggest head scratcher is no foot throttle on 8000 series.  
8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EPALLIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2021 at 9:40pm
I keep dreaming about that D-15 Series III.  LOL!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1963D17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2021 at 11:22pm
D series should have had true live hydraulics and IPTO from the start. Three point as well since Fergusons patent had expired by that time. I can't imagine an AG engineer working on a new line of tractors at that point in time, deciding they weren't necessary features to remain competitive. The pump would be easy with an extended frame and a front pump between the engine and the bolster. A double clutch like a Ford or any Japanese built compact tractor uses would have taken care of the IPTO. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pat the Plumber CIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2021 at 8:48am
Love the old post with guys we never hear from. Wonder if Dairyfarmer(SoIl) is still around?
You only need to know 3 things to be a plumber;Crap rolls down hill,Hot is on the left and Don't bite your fingernails

1964 D-17 SIV 3 Pt.WF,1964 D-15 Ser II 3pt.WF ,1960 D-17 SI NF,1956 WD 45 WF.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2021 at 1:04pm
Interesting responses,, 

Edited by DougG - 04 Oct 2021 at 6:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2021 at 7:50pm
the one where you sat on a platform,    instead of stradle every thing or with your feet out in front of you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coggonobrien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2021 at 3:08pm
the Dr. is in the middle of a concept he has been working on in his head for many decades. I'm sure he will be ready to post the functional prototype soon. His D17 XT headed to Mizzou last week.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jvin248 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2022 at 4:12pm
.

Old thread but I'll add a bit:

-They lost a lot of market share by not paying Ferguson for rights to use the three-point for the WD launch or even late years of the WC. It was well proven by Ferguson TE/TO and the Ford N-series by the WD. Trying to engineer around a patent wasted a whole crew of workers, lab time, marketing, and sales efforts plus left customers at risk for proprietary connections. Companies still stumble over this, thinking things like their unique phone charger connector will ensure market dominance when it's the common connector that makes ownership seamless. We had both a WD and a Ferguson TO35 on the farm when I was a kid and I only remember the WD doing sickle bar mower duty because it lacked the three point all the rest of our tractors had. I had the impression the mower was really hard to put on/off that tractor too. I did get to grind the bar teeth quite a few times but never drove the tractor (we had hills and a NF was more than enough dangerous).

-AC spent too much time trying to 'go toe to toe' with the competitor models in every market, advertising how they matched all the competitor tractors in all the markets. Had they focused on the tractor middle-hp-market, no lawn mowers and no tractors over 100hp, they would have been strong enough to continue. 

-Flowing artful curves of the 50s/60s machines gave way to the blocky 70s/80s styling that looks no where near as graceful. My father stopped buying Ford trucks for twenty years until they came out with better styling. It matters for tractors too.

-Large round PTO driven baler would have been a great product to launch.

Look at the production rates of the WC/D/45 and D-15/17/10/21 vs their later number series tractors that pushed for higher hp and ever higher prices and those tractor sales were abysmal. There were, and still are, many family farmers making a go of it, even with day jobs to cover the big bills, that would consider a workhorse tractor for a fair price.

The unhinged monetary expansion and resulting inflation during the 70s/80s made it impossible to continue for too many companies. That was outside of their control and just made making the decisions they executed against an unknowable outcome.

.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2022 at 8:02pm
In the long run I think government policies had a lot to do with the demise of AC because AC had so many government contracts and was involved in so many industries that government sold America out on in order to bring in foreign products and also by destroying the economy.

BTW I wish Allis would have updated the conventional combines like installing a reverser and updating the cabs a few years earlier than the 2 series rotaries. But over all the Gleaners were still ahead of the competition through the late 80's ..... even the cabs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2022 at 8:04pm
Sounds like a lot of opinions stated as fact.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2022 at 8:13pm
Originally posted by SteveM C/IL SteveM C/IL wrote:

Sounds like a lot of opinions stated as fact.
touche Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CORLEWFARM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2022 at 8:45pm
Originally posted by jvin248 jvin248 wrote:

.

Old thread but I'll add a bit:

-They lost a lot of market share by not paying Ferguson for rights to use the three-point for the WD launch or even late years of the WC. It was well proven by Ferguson TE/TO and the Ford N-series by the WD. Trying to engineer around a patent wasted a whole crew of workers, lab time, marketing, and sales efforts plus left customers at risk for proprietary connections. Companies still stumble over this, thinking things like their unique phone charger connector will ensure market dominance when it's the common connector that makes ownership seamless. We had both a WD and a Ferguson TO35 on the farm when I was a kid and I only remember the WD doing sickle bar mower duty because it lacked the three point all the rest of our tractors had. I had the impression the mower was really hard to put on/off that tractor too. I did get to grind the bar teeth quite a few times but never drove the tractor (we had hills and a NF was more than enough dangerous).

-AC spent too much time trying to 'go toe to toe' with the competitor models in every market, advertising how they matched all the competitor tractors in all the markets. Had they focused on the tractor middle-hp-market, no lawn mowers and no tractors over 100hp, they would have been strong enough to continue. 

-Flowing artful curves of the 50s/60s machines gave way to the blocky 70s/80s styling that looks no where near as graceful. My father stopped buying Ford trucks for twenty years until they came out with better styling. It matters for tractors too.

-Large round PTO driven baler would have been a great product to launch.

Look at the production rates of the WC/D/45 and D-15/17/10/21 vs their later number series tractors that pushed for higher hp and ever higher prices and those tractor sales were abysmal. There were, and still are, many family farmers making a go of it, even with day jobs to cover the big bills, that would consider a workhorse tractor for a fair price.

The unhinged monetary expansion and resulting inflation during the 70s/80s made it impossible to continue for too many companies. That was outside of their control and just made making the decisions they executed against an unknowable outcome.



I farm full time ,row crpos and cattle and use a 100 series daily and 8⁰00 series during planting. I have other brands but they don't get used as much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomstractorsandtoys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2022 at 8:01am
I just wish the 180-190 would have had a fully independent pto. Also one of the Allis books show an experimental notill drill based on the AC notill coulters. This would have been great and would have made cover cropping take off years sooner. The notill opener on many early shortline drills were very lacking. Tom
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unit3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2022 at 9:13am
I love this posting. EPAllis wanted a D15 III. If all of the D's could have had a series IV, then all of them would have had float, lower, neutral, and raise in their hydraulic functions.  I wished a 6080 and a 8070 could have found their way to Independence. Maybe Gleaner could have put a hydro into a 6080 and maybe electric-hydraulics into both the 6000 and 8000 series tractors.  

  GREAT POSTING!!!


Edited by Unit3 - 25 Jan 2022 at 9:18am
2-8070FWA PS/8050PS/7080/7045PS/200/D15-II/2-WD45/WD/3-WC/UC/C
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coggonobrien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2022 at 10:46am
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Well I'll chime in on the Industrial Side:  Wish AC or others would have continued their backhoe and crawler loader designs to include:

AC 715 Loader Backhoe with Four Wheel Drive with Full Cab, air conditioning and heat.
AC 652, 653 and 655 with wet steer clutches, pedal steering and side dump bucket.
AC/Fiat Allis 345C Series with 4 wheel steering, air conditioning and heat. 
AC Telehandler using an integral frame from an 840 Wheel Loader or 345B.
Continued work on the G2200 engine with a small turbo to use an optional engine on 650
series Crawler, Loader and Dozers. 

~ Orangeman
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cjarosz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 12:38pm
I love my 190XT but I was just thinking about it last night as I finished unloading ground feed, a true live pto in all of the hundred series tractors but especially the 190 and 200’s and if they would have put a loader on the experimental H and made the first skid steer loader
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