Phase converter VFD questions

    OK,,I get it Thad,,,, The beauty of doing that is like a car or tractor restoration is even tho the doors, fenders, tires and all that extra stuff are still in the corner,,,you can get extreme pleasure in being able to walk up to it,,,put a spark in it and listen to the hum,,,,,

   4;25 in the AM, Thad ,,,,?? Sounds like ole Joe pulling an All Nighter,,,,???   I believe they call it "Anticipation"

 Chit,,you'll be having that machine ready to make chips soon,,,,I best be getting my chit together and get down there quick,,,,,,

yes, even these guys that I've bought lots of 'stuff' in the past.

 sadly prices are up..even the wireless,no abttery needed dingdong bells

The VFD then has a small BRAIN (chip) inside that you can vary the frequency, startup ( rollup) time, etc ........... on the Phase converter, they leave out the chip and everything is preset at some constant.... That little chip does a lot, but dont cost much to add.. so the VFD and the Phase converter are basically the same cost. 

 WHOOOeeeee,,,my head is about to explode and I run out of ink in my pen,,,,That right there is why I just LOVE all these "JUICETRICIANS" on here,,,but ask me bout the inner workins of a SBC or a weed eater,,,,,,

Just to get my 'new to me' machines started up, I use a homemade rotary converter.  Once I know their state-of-function, I fit the spindles with VFDs, and find an alternate method of powering any other 3-phase-necessary equipment.

In the long run, you WILL want to run your SPINDLE motor on a VFD, and you can feed MANY VFDs with single-phase power.  SOME will require a 'derate' of the VFD's output, because it is only able to handle so-much-power coming in on just two of it's three phases, but as others noted, upsize the VFD by a bit, and you're fine.  SOME VFDs will NOT run on single phase input.  OTHERS will have 'phase loss detection' which can often be disabled in software programming.  YET OTHERS can be 'fooled' into operating on 3 phase by connecting the unused phase, to one of the operating phases by a small capacitor (the power detection circuit sees an out-of-phase sine wave and THINKS it's live, so it allows run).  And there are many that just plain old designed for, work on, and advertised as allowing single-phase in, with no sweat.

"Joe, a STATIC or ROTARY phase converter does not give a 100% true third phase.. and there for they say you only get 60- 80% of the motor HP output."

Not true.  Static converters will fit into the 'not 100%' category simply because the phasing of the 'generated leg' is very heavily reliant on tuning with a stable load, so it will be assymetrical under most points, but yet, still functional, and you'll get right to 100% IF you have the capacitor values dialed-in properly for THAT loadpoint. 

The ROTARY converter WILL produce a 'true' three phase, with those who claim otherwise are basing their argument on a neutral-to-generated-leg measurement, which in case of most any rotary design, is inappropriate, because the 'center' of the sinusoidal rotation is offset from neutral.  Measurements must be done strictly from leg-to-leg.

FWIW, the design that most guys use for building their own rotary converters, comes from Fitch Williams's white paper of several decades ago.  I don't know if Fitch is still kickin' around, but last I checked (half a decade ago), he was... and he was still answering questions now'n then, but his work still lives on, and many 'OEM' outfits use teh same architecture in what they sell.

Now, the easy way to build a SIMPLE rotary (and one lots of guys use), is just a three-phase motor, a hand-operated 3-phase switch, and a piece of plywood.  Bolt the motor to the plywood, connect any TWO phases of the motor to one side of the knife switch, connect the other two to your mains.  As others noted, make certain your motor is wired to match your mains (ie. 240v single phase mains, wire the motor for 230v 3ph).  Throw the switch (the motor will growl) Now shut it off, spin the shaft with your foot, or a piece of string, then throw the switch, the motor will spin up.  At this point, there will be three-phase voltage at that motor... one at each of your 240v mains, and the third on the 'unused' wire.  Connect those three to your mill, leave the mill power switch off... repeat the Cro-Magnon starting procedure, and once the idler motor is spinning, throw the machine's power switch, and it's on.

If your mill's spindle motor is 2hp, use a 4hp idler motor.  A junked-up shaft is fine, just so long as the windings still hold electrons and the bearings aren't too wiped out, it'll do.

I ran my first Bridgeport, and my Monarch 10EE off a homemade rotary converter using a 7.5hp 3600rpm pump motor that I got for free.  After I had it all working, I added some capacitors (using Fitch's diagram) to help balance out voltages, and I added a capacitor-start system to kick it over automatically, and I wired in a couple of control relays and a timer to make sure it started safely, without the load accidentally engaged, and if something went wrong, it'd shut down and lock itself out for safety.  Handy for testing machines, and I still use a rotary for this today.

My Monarch 10EE has a 480v Allen-Bradley 1336 VFD and a 480-240v single phase transformer in it's belly, powering a 7.5hp Allis-Chalmers motor driving a 3.5:1 Gates Polychain belt to the spindle.  My Bridgeport J-mill uses it's original 'pancake' motor and spindle V-belts (basically permanently set to the center sheaves) fed by a 240v Allen-Bradley 1305 type AA12A inverter.  My Johannsen radial drill also runs an AA12A, powering a 3hp 1800rpm motor into a 3:1 toothed belt, to it's Bridgeport J-head spindle.  On all these, the upper frequency limit is around 210hz, so my motor speeds are up in the 6k range.  NONE of them have cooling fans on the motor shafts, instead, I've fitted constant-flow fans over the motors, so when they're turning slow, they have excellent cooling airflow, and when they're turning fast, they're not howling air-raid sirens in my workshop.

My Whiteman power trowel runs an Allen-Bradley 1336S, on 480v power.  I set a 480-240v transformer by a utility panel, feed 240v in at the secondary, take 480v out of the primary, through a 600v 3-wire drop-cord, hanging above a work area, and there's a 3hp electric motor driving the Whiteman's gearbox.  I can float concrete with ordinary blades at silly-slow speeds, with full torque, and when it's set up and ready to burnish, the blades can be tilted up, motor raced, to wail it down shiny.

I have a tiny Omron VFD on my HSS tool grinder... and I have an inexpensive analog (Minarik, I think) on the carbide tool grinder.

The table feed motors, you will NOT want to have on the VFD WITH a spindle motor.  Chances are, even if they're connected to 3-phase, that they're DC motors driving substantial gear reductions and have a variable speed circuit integrated into the drive electronics... it is also equally likely that they're single-phase fed off the machine's main power contactor.