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Jim.ME
Orange Level Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 934 |
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You need a multimeter with a DC voltmeter scale that will read 20 volts and down. Check to see what the voltage is when measured across the battery terminals when the switch is off. Then measure it again while the engine is cranking. Test at the starter solenoid to ground as well, both setting and cranking. The difference in the readings will give an idea of the battery, battery cable, and starter conditions. Make the checks and post the results. Turning a lot slower when the plugs are in, could be a sign of a bad cable or connection, weak battery, weak starter or some level of all those things.
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 366 |
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The battery is brand new and the battery cables are brand new to
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Jim.ME
Orange Level Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 934 |
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They may be new, but sometimes you do all the tests to have a base to work from. In this case the battery and cable checks should give good results. Having those good results on record will make the results of the voltage check when the starter is cranking the engine over (with the plugs in) more meaningful of the starter condition. Also a check is most generally worthwhile as even new parts have been found to be bad at times. You can also check the voltage at the starter while cranking with the plugs out. If the starter cranking makes the voltage drop way down from when it wasn't cranking, it is a possible sign of a bad starter. Good mechanics/technicians use diagnostic tests to try to figure out what is wrong, instead of just replacing parts willy-nilly.
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 77620 |
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hunter, i think you said you have a 6 volt battery. 6 volt systems naturally turn slower than 12 volt systems.. Also the 6 volt system normally has BIGGER diameter battery cables than the 12 volt... Half the voltage, twice the AMPS to get the same power out of the motor. You have to be real particular with the cables, clamps, ground, etc when using 6 volts..
As long as it is turning over fast enough to start, that is fine... With 6 volts it will not spin over like your dads truck.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 366 |
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Me and my dad are going to try to pull start the tractor to see if the starter is the reason it is dragging when it try's to start
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 366 |
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if it does start when we pull start it does that mean the starter needs to be rebuilt?
Edited by hunter321 - 12 Mar 2021 at 11:49am |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 77620 |
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could be a weak starter, or a bad terminal at some point... if not that, you can rebuild the starter, or use a 12 volt battery on the tractor.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 366 |
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I know that all the contact points are clean and all the connections are tight once i cleaned everything I tried starting starting it. it turned over faster but still didnt start. me and my dad are waiting to try and pull the tractor until the roads dry up
Edited by hunter321 - 30 Mar 2021 at 11:24am |
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 366 |
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we pulled the tractor the firs time and nothing happedend so we stopped for the night we cleaned a few things and messsed with stuff and tried it again the next day it sortof started but would die when the truck stopped moveing. why is this. there is fuel
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 77620 |
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you need FUEL, SPARK and at the RIGHT TIME..... If you know you have FUEL, then you need to check for GOOD SPARK... If you have that, then your timing is off..... Only 3 things.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 366 |
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is this why it died when the truck stopped moving
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 77620 |
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when you drag the tractor around you are forcing the motor to rotate and suck in gas from the carburetor. The spark may be weak or randomly firing. Gas builds up in the cylinder and will make it "POP" randomly. If you had GOOD spark and correct timing, it should start, assuming you have any kind of compression at all.
You got a new coil.. Was it a 6 volt ? Are the spark plug wires in the order 1-2-4-3 in a clockwise direction ? Did you get a new capacitor when you cleaned the point ? ... Something is just a LITTLE BIT OFF...... causing you problems.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 366 |
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i belive the firing order is correct the i didnt romove the spark plug wires, they are the same as they where when i got the tractor.
when we pulled it it did pop a lot. I didnt get a new coil or capacitor either. also the throtle lever only moves the rod that is connected to the carburater a little is this normal
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Jim.ME
Orange Level Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 934 |
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The carb link rod is moved by the governor, which is moved by the throttle lever so the amount of travel seen on both is not necessarily proportional.
I understand you saying you believe the firing order is correct, since you didn't remove the plug wires, they are the same as when you got the tractor. However, how can you be sure that in the years between when it last ran and the point where you started working on it, someone else didn't move the wires around? I strongly recommend you check that the rotor lines up with #1 cylinder when it is on compression and that the wires are in the correct firing order, in the direction the rotor turns. It is a simple basic check and doesn't cost you anything but a few minutes of time. Finding #1 compression has been gone over before earlier in this thread, and if you are not sure which way the rotor turns, you can watch it turn with the cap off when the engine is cranked over. Check and know, don't just believe in this case. If it popped some, your close to getting it, keep at it, it will run.
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 366 |
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Ok I will try that
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 366 |
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me and my dad where going to try to pull the tractor again because the last time as we got home the tractor started moveing by it self but i had to put on the brakes before it hit the truck. but when we went out to go pull it the rear left tire was compleatly flat. we have tried multiple things to get it to start with the starter but nothing has worked. what should I try next untill I can get a different tire
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Jim.ME
Orange Level Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 934 |
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Did you check the things I mentioned in my last post? How did they check out?
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 77620 |
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you need fuel , spark, and timing. We have said this several times.. ONE of the above is not correct. There is nothing else we can really say to help. You need to verify each.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Jim.ME
Orange Level Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 934 |
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Hunter,
It looks like there were a number of checks people suggested, where your answer was along the lines of: It looks ok or I didn't touch/move that. The reason for people saying to check those things is somewhere along the way they ran into a problem and are passing their experience of how to find or fix it on to you. Over the years rust, corrosion, and oxidization can take a toll. Also some one may have worked on it in the past or swapped a part(s) with another tractor (as you have done with a few things). When the swapped parts, say like a distributor cap and wires, were reinstalled on your tractor they might have been just stuck on, with no relationship to correct location of the wires. Confirming timing, firing order, and proper rotation around the cap are key items for the ignition system. Compression, fuel delivery, and air intake are other key items. People are trying to help you. You need to do the complete check/test they suggest to rule things out, it will help find the problems. Use this time while you are dealing with the tire problem to do things you might have "gone light" on checking/testing. There is nothing wrong with double or triple checking your work. We all do it and sooner or later we all find something we missed or did wrong, but it looked ok. It can look ok but be wrong, you need to verify correctness. Keep up your efforts, pay close attention to little details, and you will get it to run.
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SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 7970 |
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You have never been around an old 6V system to know what's normal. The starters are slow sounding compared to anything you've heard. With a good starter and battery you can almost count the compression strokes while cranking. If it's turning over without stalling on each stroke it should start. When a battery is weak the starter draws enough current to weaken the spark from the coil. Pull coil wire from dist cap and hold it 1/4-3/8 in from block and crank it. It should jump spark to block. The farther it will jump tells how "hot" it is. A good system will jump 1/2 in gap and be almost blue not orange. If that all proves out you don't have a starter or ignition problem.
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 366 |
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I havent had time to try what you told me because of school stuff. but my dad realized that our battery charger isnt actully charhing the battery.
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Jim.ME
Orange Level Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 934 |
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No problem with that, school should come first.
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 77620 |
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wonder how hunter ever made out with the tractor ?
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 366 |
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We tried the things you said to and tried to pull it and 3 rd gear popped and now I have no 3rd gear I found this under the battery
Anyone know what this is will this be hard to fix |
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 366 |
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 366 |
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Also the oil looks like chocolate milk
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Jim.ME
Orange Level Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 934 |
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Hello Hunter,
Good to see you are still working on it, too bad new things show up. It sounds like you have at least seen a bit of life from it. Which oil looks like chocolate milk? Engine, hydraulic, transmission/differential? Has it been setting undercover or outside all the time? Exhaust stack covered? Did you ever get #1 cylinder up on compression and see exactly where the rotor is pointing? You may need to remove the valve rocker cover and see if you have a stuck valve after setting for 14 years. You can check and adjust the valves while it is off and confirm when #1 is TDC compression to check static timing. I don't remember. Do you have Operator's and service manuals for your tractor? If you don't you can find some WD manuals you can download at this site: https://archive.org/details/collection_01_allis_chalmers_manuals You can scroll down the list of manuals and pick the ones you want. The service manual there is I&T not AC, but better than none if you don't have the manuals.
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 366 |
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yes the tractor has been sitting outside the stack is covered the transmission oil looks like chocolote milk. no i have not Did you ever get #1 cylinder up on compression and see exactly where the rotor is pointing
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Jim.ME
Orange Level Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 934 |
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It is common for transmissions to get rainwater in them if the shift lever boots are missing or torn. Condensation from temperature changes will add a bit as well. You will want to change it after you get it running. If you keep the shifter and tower covered as well as the stack you can minimize more water getting in there for now.
People have given you some basic tests/checks; like getting #1 to TDC and checking where the rotor points. Another was to visually check the spark by holding the distributor end of the coil wire close to the block and see how far it will jump and what color it is. Then, lay the plugs out where they will ground to the engine, connected to their respective plug wires, and crank it over to see if they all have spark. (cranking the engine over while watching a plug spark, with your finger tight over its hole in the head, will give you an idea as to how close it is firing to compression of its cylinder.) I know you got a shock while holding the coil wire but what you felt may not be enough to jump the plugs. Visually check, from the wires the spark should jump 3/8" or more and be a blue white color. Use insulated pliers or a fuse puller, split a piece of hose, or use some rubber folded around the wire for insulation if needed to hold it when checking spark. The fact that you got a shock says the wires aren't in the best condition. After it is running you may want to change them. The tests/checks are suggested to help find what is right and what is not. Do you have any manuals? Have you checked out any of the manuals you have been given links to? You reported cleaning the points several different times. Have you ever checked or set the gap with a feeler gauge (.020")? You are working on a tractor that set for about 14 years, you say. You have reported it was missing some parts and pieces so it can't be taken for granted that no one has messed with wiring or timing, etc., over the years. People have suggested things to help you for a reason, so please follow through on them as suggested and report back what the results of each were, even if you don't see why you should do them. The results lead to other tests, checks, and adjustments or repairs. Little things can make a big difference. Keep working it it, You'll get it.
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 77620 |
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Hunter, the problem is we dont know what else to tell you.. You need air / fuel / spark and have the spark at the right time ( TIMING).. We have gone over this for 120 posts. It does no good to say it again. The basics of getting it running dont change. If you are having trouble doing the TESTING, it might be time to look for some help. Local Farmer, High School Shop Teacher, engine mechanic, etc.. Someone who understands the basics and can SHOW you instead of just repeating it on paper. Not trying to be mean, just pointing out that repeating the same info over and over is not getting it done.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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