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Rain GaugeDelema

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FREEDGUY View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 May 2020 at 4:52pm
With all of the talk of recent rains, a close friend of mine  has always used a tapered/funnel shaped gauge that will hold roughly 4"s of rain for at least 15 years with no thoughts on accuracy/inaccuracy until his wife brought home a new gauge from the local flower/garden center and set it 3 feet away from the "original". The new one is a 2 1/2" straight cylinder that reads consistently 1/2" more  than the original Ouch. I would like to know if/what is a test to verify which unit is correct Smile. My first thought was to put 1"(measured with a tape measure) in soup can and dump that amount into each gauge in question, but am pretty sure that experiment would be skewed ?? Thanks
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2020 at 5:24pm
The rain is 1 inch depth PER SQUARE INCH of surface area... If the opening is 1 x 1 inch, then the rain in the tube ( assuming 1 x 1 square) would be 1 inch tall......... If the opening is 2 x 2 that is 4 square inches, so  if it tapers down to  the same 1 x 1 square tube, the  height would be 4 inches... BUT, the marking on the tube would be 1 inch every 4 inches of height...

You have to know the SURFACE AREA of the opening and the DIAMETER of the tube it runs into and how far apart the inch markings are on the tube..... you can not fill it from a cup of known volume, as it depends on the OPEN SURFACE AREA of the instrument.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2020 at 6:25pm
Thanks, I had a felling it wasn't going to be a "simple" experiment LOL!! I think I will suggest to him to get a third gauge and average them out Wink.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote john(MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2020 at 1:17pm
They can become a National Weather Service(NWS) COOP site and get a real and very accurate rain gauge!  Just contact the NWS office for your area and tell them you want to be a site.  There are a few inconveniences, but you'll just have to decide if you want to deal with them or not.  It looks like your NWS office would be GRR, Grand Rapids.

D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GARY(OH/IN) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 12:02am
I'd like to have two things at the farm house. A thermometer and a rain gauge, both in orange. Repop would be fine with me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nella(Pa) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 6:17am
Check the straight side tube rain gauge to see if it is calibrated correctly. If the one inch, two inch, etc. mark is exactly  from the bottom it got to be correct.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tracy Martin TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 8:45am
If you use the same amount of volume, in each rain gauge should read the same. Put a 4 or so ozs. in each and check it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 9:41am
Originally posted by Tracy Martin TN Tracy Martin TN wrote:

If you use the same amount of volume, in each rain gauge should read the same. Put a 4 or so ozs. in each and check it.

Not if the gauges are a different shape, as stated in the OP.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tracy Martin TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 10:11am
It doesn't matter the shape or size. Volume is volume. The calibration on the gauge is what changes. The scale in which it reads. Tracy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 10:21am
But, with the shape of the mouth open catching rain, it might take 4 oz's to fill one and 4 ounces overflows another, so pouring in a fixed volume is irrelevant. If I have a saucepan, and pour 4 ounces in, it will barely cover the bottom, if I put 4 ounces in a drinking straw, I'll need more than one to hold it, regardless of what calibrations are on the side of it ahead of time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tracy Martin TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 11:15am
Volume is volume. The shape and size determines the level at which they fill. It is the calibration on the rain gauge itself, that changes to read the given amount in each of the said rain gauges. Tracy
No greater gift than healthy grandkids!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 11:23am
Wink No way for a exact measure.  The best you can do is a gauge like the weather service uses. Shocked And it's probably expensive.

But for a cheap Wink test use soup cans or what ever you can find that are the same exact containers. Spread them around your yard then measure away. If you put out 4 or 6 I beat you get different readings in most of them. The more gusty the wind the more differences you will see. The more you are out away from trees,buildings, or even a fence posts the more even they will be.


The best way to have more than the neighbor is get him to tell first.LOL Then stretch the truth as far as you dare.LOL 

But for knowing how much rain you got I don't really want to wade out in the mud and poring rain to check my gauge way out away from my house. So you find a handy place and leave it in the same spot for years and you average out for storms coming with wind from different directions. 


Edited by Ray54 - 01 Jun 2020 at 11:25am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 11:24am
I get that! Umm......you have a good one sir.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 1:55pm
Tbone is right on the gauge.. Its an old Engineering problem... Lets say one gauge is 2 x 2 inches... it collects 4 SQUARE INCHES OF RAIN... If it rains 1 inch, then i have 4 CUBIC INCES of rain in the gauge... If the bottom of the gauge is 1 x 1 inch square, then i have a 4 inch column of water... If the bottom is 1 x 2 then i have a 2 inch column of water... if the bottom is 2 x 2 then i have 1 inch of water in the bottom..... so i cant transfer the KNOWN water volumn to another gauge as it might have a different TOP SQUARE inches or a DIFFERENT BOTTOM dimension.... 

Now you COULD measure the INLET SURFACE AREA of both gauges and then calculate from the the amount of water to put in each gauge.... If the SURFACE area is 4 times BIGGER, then you need 4 times LESS water for the column test.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 1:56pm
Take a soup can and fill it with water... Call that 4 inches of rain.............. Now pour that full can into a 5 gallon bucket and tell me how much " rain" you have.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 1:58pm
Yes, and the calibrations show that. And you can't use a fixed volume to validate 2 different calibrations, as Steve is saying, because the inlet would collect it differently. But, I'd given up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tracy Martin TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 2:28pm
You guys are missing the point. Volume is volume. It is the scale on the gauge that has to compensate for the different  sizes  of rain gauges. If both gauges will hold at least the volume you want to check, it doesn't matter the shape or size. It is a scale that reads the amount of volume. Each scale will be different spacing, but the volume should read the same. HTH, Tracy
No greater gift than healthy grandkids!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tadams(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 2:45pm
1" of rain is 1" if its 5 gallon bucket or a wash tub
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Bank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 4:06pm
After the second wettest May in record does anyone know where I can get a 10” rain gauge? Getting tired of pouring it out while it’s raining to keep up an accurate reading lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 4:22pm
the problem is the gauges dont have the same cone shape at the top so the DONT have the same VOLUME.. If one is 1 x 1 inch and one is 2 x 2 inches, the 2 x 2 collects 4 TIMES as much water.... The gauge is calibrated to the CONE, not  fixed amount of water...  The 1 x 1 gauge might collect 1 oz of water during a rain... The 2 x 2 will collect 4 oz of water... Yes, the gauge is calibrated DIFFERENT, but if your running a comparison, you need to pour four times as much water in the BIG gauge to get the same 1 inch reading on the scale as the little gauge.

Edited by steve(ill) - 01 Jun 2020 at 4:27pm
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by Tracy Martin TN Tracy Martin TN wrote:

You guys are missing the point. Volume is volume. It is the scale on the gauge that has to compensate for the different  sizes  of rain gauges. If both gauges will hold at least the volume you want to check, it doesn't matter the shape or size. It is a scale that reads the amount of volume. Each scale will be different spacing, but the volume should read the same. HTH, Tracy
Sadly Tracy, that's the first test we did, a measured 1/4 cup of water into each "victim", 3" of variance Confused Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2020 at 10:41am
Hahahaha!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2020 at 11:00am
Tracy, think about this:

Let's assume 1 inch of rain fell as an accepted fact. You have a 5 gallon bucket sitting there, put a mark on the bucket, and call it 1 inch. A bucket is slightly conical shaped, so with a tape measure, it won't read an inch, that's where calibration comes in. Each time from here forth, whenever that bucket collects water to that mark during a rain, an inch of rain fell.

Next, you want to make another gauge. This time you make it out of something totally different, like a soup can. You can't take the rain from the bucket and pour it in the soup can and make your mark, because the mouth of the bucket would have collected way more rain during the rainfall. You'd have to have them both out in the rain, and when the bucket gets to it's mark, go mark the soup can. A fixed volume cannot be used to compare the two scales.

My last thought experiment for you. After this, I give, I really meant it this time
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allisrutledge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2020 at 1:32pm
How the scale is marked on the gage is the difference. If you do not have a scale on the cone one that is calculated for the shape throw it away. I got both and they read the same on the scale.
Allis Chalmers still exist in my mind and barns
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tracy Martin TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2020 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by Tbone95 Tbone95 wrote:

Tracy, think about this:

Let's assume 1 inch of rain fell as an accepted fact. You have a 5 gallon bucket sitting there, put a mark on the bucket, and call it 1 inch. A bucket is slightly conical shaped, so with a tape measure, it won't read an inch, that's where calibration comes in. Each time from here forth, whenever that bucket collects water to that mark during a rain, an inch of rain fell.

Next, you want to make another gauge. This time you make it out of something totally different, like a soup can. You can't take the rain from the bucket and pour it in the soup can and make your mark, because the mouth of the bucket would have collected way more rain during the rainfall. You'd have to have them both out in the rain, and when the bucket gets to it's mark, go mark the soup can. A fixed volume cannot be used to compare the two scales.
 Volume is volume. If you had exactly 3 ozs of water in two different rain gauges, one straight sided and one tapered it is still 3 ozs. Each gauge will need a different graduated scale. The straight side one will have equal division  increments on it's scale. The tapered one will have wider marks at the bottom and as it rises the marks will be closer together, to compensate for the taper.
 I am not sure what you thought I was describing, but my intentions was this. HTH Tracy

My last thought experiment for you. After this, I give, I really meant it this time
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2020 at 7:31am
Originally posted by Tracy Martin TN Tracy Martin TN wrote:

Originally posted by Tbone95 Tbone95 wrote:

Tracy, think about this:

Let's assume 1 inch of rain fell as an accepted fact. You have a 5 gallon bucket sitting there, put a mark on the bucket, and call it 1 inch. A bucket is slightly conical shaped, so with a tape measure, it won't read an inch, that's where calibration comes in. Each time from here forth, whenever that bucket collects water to that mark during a rain, an inch of rain fell.

Next, you want to make another gauge. This time you make it out of something totally different, like a soup can. You can't take the rain from the bucket and pour it in the soup can and make your mark, because the mouth of the bucket would have collected way more rain during the rainfall. You'd have to have them both out in the rain, and when the bucket gets to it's mark, go mark the soup can. A fixed volume cannot be used to compare the two scales.
 Volume is volume. If you had exactly 3 ozs of water in two different rain gauges, one straight sided and one tapered it is still 3 ozs. Each gauge will need a different graduated scale. The straight side one will have equal division  increments on it's scale. The tapered one will have wider marks at the bottom and as it rises the marks will be closer together, to compensate for the taper.
 I am not sure what you thought I was describing, but my intentions was this. HTH Tracy

My last thought experiment for you. After this, I give, I really meant it this time


Agree on this!

The OP says he has 2 rain gauges, one reads consistently 1/2" more rain than the other. So apparently, if it doesn't rain, one gauge shows 1/2 inch! I "THOUGHT" you were suggesting a fixed volume of water could verify the scales between 2 different shaped gauges, which would not work.

I knew all along there was either a misunderstanding, or somebody was missing something simple.

Beers on me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dakota Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2020 at 10:34am
Just get an electronic one make sure it's level where you have it and it'll continuously empty it's self. Don't even have to got out and check it. Can also get wind speed and direction temp and humidity without even looking outside. You can have three identical rain gauges set in three differant places in the yard and you'll get three differant readings. I had two of the funnel top gauges set 150' apart. One in he garden one outside my living room. Both in open areas they were always 1/2" apart. Since they were the exact same guage I swapped them they were still 1/2" apart. The living room one always was more than the garden. Unless I had been watering that day then the garden was of course more since it also captured the sprinkler.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2020 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by Dakota Dave Dakota Dave wrote:

Just get an electronic one make sure it's level where you have it and it'll continuously empty it's self. Don't even have to got out and check it. Can also get wind speed and direction temp and humidity without even looking outside. You can have three identical rain gauges set in three differant places in the yard and you'll get three differant readings. I had two of the funnel top gauges set 150' apart. One in he garden one outside my living room. Both in open areas they were always 1/2" apart. Since they were the exact same guage I swapped them they were still 1/2" apart. The living room one always was more than the garden. Unless I had been watering that day then the garden was of course more since it also captured the sprinkler.
Not bashing your "electronic" gauge, but how do you know IT'S  accurate ?? I've had one 8 years ago  but couldn't keep up with the battery changes Ouch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dakota Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2020 at 2:59pm
It's just as accurate as anything else. Take several straight sided 5 gallon buckets set them around your yard in various places. After a good rain fall measure each one with a tape measure. There not going to be the same so which one is accurate. They all are except the one you placed close enough to the barn so it gets roof runoff. I replace the batteries in each of my electronic gauges every two years. They don't change measure amounts until after the remote battery low indicator comes on For a couple weeks then they stop working. The most accurate is the straight sided 5 gal bucket. It captures the largest sample.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2020 at 6:32pm
Thanks Dave Smile, keeping things "simple" is usually the best/least $$ Wink !!
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