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Shop Talk

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Sugarmaker View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2020 at 7:23pm
Folks,
 Thank you for the responses on the pitch of this ramp up into the building. I know it has to be above grade in this situation as i am sandwiching this building into a small area. not many options with existing drive and buildings already in place too.

 I get too worked up about mistakes that I make in things. I don't build buildings often this is only the second one. The sugarhouse I built 20 years ago. So it really bothered me to miss the basics of getting the grade into my sketches.
Had good meeting with my dirt moving contractor and he is planning to make several changes to slightly reduce the ramp up into the building. Also will do some additional work to install drains all around this building to get water to the road ditch. Sounds good to me, maybe I will sleep better tonight.

Here are some pictures as the dirt moving progressed.
We had rain last night and things were pretty soggy, and will be for at least several days.
Top soil removed to around the perimeter.

Great grandson Cooper watches dozer pushing dirt. He loves to watch but did not want to get on it.


Truck in the area of proposed shop:















Maggie was really hoping for a pond! 

I now own a mound of wet soggy dirt! About 27 loads of bank gravel to fill the hole to grade.
Regards,
 Chris




Edited by Sugarmaker - 23 May 2020 at 7:31pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnColo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2020 at 4:27pm
Well, it's under construction, good for you!  That is a lot of fill but it is the right thing to do.
My cousin in the Hinckley, OH area, still hasn't planted corn or beans, water still on top of the fields.  Told me he won't be planting in July like he did last year.  If not planted by late June, it's not getting planted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2020 at 8:46pm
Folks, John,
Bringing this back to Allis land.
Took the WZ for a nice ride down the road. It runs very good for a old tractor! A little bit of gear howl but  not as bad as my wide front.


Here it is headed up towards where I had the two proposed 12 foot wide doors facing west.



Here I am setting in a chair and took some pictures.
Looking west

Looking north

Regards,
 Chris



Edited by Sugarmaker - 24 May 2020 at 8:48pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2020 at 9:12pm
Tomorrow is Memorial Day... figure out where the  Frig is going to set in the shop... Get a lawn chair, set it down, get a cold beer and see how it feels !! .. Wink
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 6:37am
Steve,
That's funny I did that yesterday. Found a old beer in the fridge, grabbed a chair and went and set in the dirt pile where the overheads are proposed. That is the 4th picture down looking west!

Regards,
 Chris

D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob D. (La) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 9:52am
Don't worry over it too much Chris. After all, that's no step for a stepper like you.
When you find yourself in a hole,PUT DOWN THE SHOVEL!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by Bob D. (La) Bob D. (La) wrote:

Don't worry over it too much Chris. After all, that's no step for a stepper like you.

Bob,
 I think that is a good thing right?? 
I will try not to worry as much! Thanks for the support! Sometimes we just need to get things off our chest. Thanks for listening!
Folks,
Happy Memorial day to all! Hot weather here. Worked in the garden a little getting the ground ready to plant some seeds.  We have a 7hp Troy buit Horse rear tine tiller. Opened the little camper and napped in the shade of the awning for a bit. The central air in the house was a nice comfortable 70F. Felt great so took another nap after lunch too. 
Went to daughters tonight and snagged the 272 mower and tried it on the Jubilee. It worked fine. Just need to move the left front caster out to provide more tire clearance. 

Oh yea back on Allis stuff, I took the WZ for a spin down the road and back. Nice cool breeze and 85 degrees. That Z code engine just purrs! Local farmers were discing and planting beans with mid size CASE tractors.
Regards,
 Chris

D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2020 at 7:13am
Folks,
This weeks installment of shop talk!
 So the dirt guys were back mid week and removed 6 inched of bank gravel from the top of the building pad, and the top soil around east and south perimeter. This bank gravel was used to bring the exterior grades on the north and west sides to near finished levels/ slopes. I think its better, not such a incline. Some pictures:
Maggie checking it out.

views are from the south west corner



View from out in the garden area looking east at the elevated side of proposed building.

Looking south from the camper:

The approach slope is improved by lowering the pad and then also "finishing" the approach pad. 

I am considering 10 foot eaves, so as not to make this building so high compared to the house and the sugarhouse.  Also still debating the roof pitch and storage and scissors truss options. The old brain toggles back and fourth between what I might like to have for these features and the cost. Most of the options cost more of course!? 

The house and garage are 4/12 pitch, the sugarhouse is 8/12 pitch with the 3/12 lean to.
If I go with 4/12 it keeps the peak of the building lower and would just have a flat 10 foot inside ceiling. No storage in loft. If I went with 6/12 the building would be 20 foot at the peak but then would have the options for storage trusses above and or scissors trusses for 15 foot high bay area inside. Decisions/ decisions!:) Maybe it will help me to write them here, and you folks are always willing to listen to a old man ramble.

We are having a lot of rain so its going to take a while to dry this pad out enough to work on it. That's OK many other things to do. Grass is needing mowed every 3 days!

Hope things are good out there!
Regards,
 Chris






Edited by Sugarmaker - 29 May 2020 at 7:20am
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2020 at 9:29pm
Folks,
 We wait on the weather then the bank then the builder. Things may come together by this time next year? 
What are your opinions on doors on each side of a building across from each other that you could theoretically drive through or exit with a piece of equipment rather than having to move something? Advantage/ dis advantages? 
I have this desire to add a fourth overhead door for this purpose. I will loose some wall space.
Here is a picture of the youngest Ggrandson riding his bike around on the building pad.
The white pole represents 10 foot eave height.

No he is not falling down, he has the bike balanced on its side, making racing sounds like he is leaning into a sharp curve, going 110 mph!  He is 2 and rides this non pedal bike like he is 10! Now just need to get him out of diapers!:)

Meet with builder tomorrow. Will see how that goes. Keeping my expectations really low!
Thanks for checking on me!

Going to pick up my truck tomorrow. It just had a removal of the pollution crap. Will see if that cures it! I did not want to do that but its been giving me fits!

Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 04 Jun 2020 at 9:37pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote plummerscarin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2020 at 11:09pm
Were I to put up another building I think I would like to be able to drive through. The downside may be you'd still have to move stuff around depending on how much stuff you have and I think more doors would reduce the R value of the envelope. I have insulated doors on my two sheds. Not cheap but more doors are convenient.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john(MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2020 at 7:28am
I haven't read all of the posts on the interior setup, but I have been in a couple buildings that had air plumbed in, and outlets spaced out around the building.  That really makes it easier than dragging a hose wherever you go.  It also allows you to have more tools connected and available, rather than connecting and disconnecting whenever you need a different tool.  You might also consider an easy to reach power disconnect for the compressor to leave it off whenever you don't need it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2020 at 8:34am
All my electrical is Surface Mount in conduit, always found outlets in bad locations unable to change positions due to imbedded in the walls wiring. Roll single wire instead of ROMEX, Blk Wht Grn and pulled thru each conduit to distribution base boxes then to rows of outlets. My next runs will be for weathertight outside boxes for extra functions Outdoors. Air I have bought the Northern Tool nylon/aluminum wall mounted main feeder kit, so far like that as well as no measuring/cutting and threading of black iron pipe, drip legs come with fitting fixtures, just handy. My little shop is insulated with Fiberglass batts and tinned inside, holds a good temperature even as not heated on one side. I should have bought LED Fixtures when put my lighting in as opted for fluorescent 8 footers, as the bulbs cease to be produced will have to convert the entire system over now.

My compressor is a Plug in 240v currently, have extra 240v circuits for the welders.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2020 at 9:34pm
Guys good suggestions on the wiring and air systems. I may have to see if I can find the Northern too wall mount feeder kit.
I want to fully insulate the building if the money holds out! 
Meeting with builder went well today. No major issues. getting closer. 
 Here are a couple shots of the proposed building.

post layout:

west side of building:

North side:

East side:

Some of the proposed details:

South half of building has scissor trusses, north end has attic trusses. at least thats the plan on paper today.
6-12 roof pitch with 1 foot overhangs all around. 
3 Overhead doors are 12 foot wide x 9 foot high. One on north end is 16 wide x 9 foot high.
May have 3 walk in doors east side, west side and north side. 
side walls 10 foot high.
OSB over girts on sides then house wrapped. 
Roof sheeting to be 5/8 osb with clips, green architectural shingle roof to match other buildings.
Bottom 40 inches to be dark gray steel (wainscoting)  and in gables ends.
7 or 8 windows, single hung. 
Band of hemlock around building stained to match the sugarhouse.
cement to be 4 inches thick, 4 floor drains.
set of stairs into attic area. 
Regards,
 Chris



Edited by Sugarmaker - 05 Jun 2020 at 9:36pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dusty MI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2020 at 10:32pm
You can use conduit but still have the conduit inside the wall, out of the way and sight. And if you use EMT conduit you do not need the green wire/conductor in the conduit. You still need the ground wire from the metal box to the recitals.
And stranded wire is easier to work with when installing.


Edited by Dusty MI - 05 Jun 2020 at 10:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2020 at 10:45pm
Folks,
 I am going to rely on my electrician for recommendations also. I mean we have these grandkids for a reason! :) Nic is a Master electrician and I will probably follow his lead. He has not steered me wrong yet. I do agree that extra outlets may be even better!
 Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2020 at 10:48pm
Folks,
Anyone have a jib crane in there shop? I feel I would really use this tool a lot. As I get older lifting stuff gets even harder. My neighbor has a piece of 12 inch pipe that would be a candidate for the vertical tube portion. I could get it in place while I was getting poles set too. 
Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote plummerscarin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2020 at 4:42am
I think a jib crane would be a great idea. I have a beam suspended from the ceiling off two trusses that I like to use but the travel is only 8ft and honestly I am not sure how much can be lifted safely from a truss designed for a 30lb snow load. I also have a mobile shop crane. My dream shop would have a full size overhead crane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2020 at 7:44am
Originally posted by Sugarmaker Sugarmaker wrote:

What are your opinions on doors on each side of a building across from each other that you could theoretically drive through or exit with a piece of equipment rather than having to move something? Advantage/ dis advantages? 
I have this desire to add a fourth overhead door for this purpose. I will loose some wall space.

I have been thinking about that, too. I doubt I'll have the funds for a building anytime soon... But since we've been in the upper 90s this week, I was thinking at least doors on opposite ends for airflow, if nothing else. Of course I don't plan on having air conditioning in it. We almost always have a south breeze (or 40 MPH wind) here in the summer. It makes 101 degrees bearable.
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2020 at 10:38am
Thanks guys for checking in on me!
Yes my first real job in a structural steel fab shop we had two large overhead cranes. they spoiled me. I think I will go look at the the pipe at the neighbors and maybe drag it home.
John,
 Yes breeze coming through from the west would be great on those days where the temps are up in the 90's and you want shade and a breeze. That's the current plan! Hoping I can round up enough money to fund all my wants! Its a long list. But I would like a custom building that has some features to allow me to do some man cave things! More than just a basic box building.
Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 02 May 2021 at 8:21am
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Kenny L. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2020 at 10:02pm
Chris, when I build my new shop I wanted a crane but it cost to much so I went with a A frame that is 10ft wide and 11ft high with wheels I can move it where I need it and roll it against the wall that has the metal shelves and be out of the way when not in use. It has a  trolley that I can roll from side to side with a 1/2 ton ele hoist I love it. Just something else to think about. 

Edited by Kenny L. - 06 Jun 2020 at 10:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 2:46pm
Kenny, Folks,
 thanks that is a good option too. I havent gotten too far on the jib crane idea/ work. But still thinking about it. I do have a good old chain falls that was in my Uncle garage.
 The neighbor delivered the pipe. I cut off the bad on both ends. 


On another detail I am considering hemlock siding for a 7 foot band around the building. Steel below and on the gable ends.
I think the hemlock would work good into the window grooves. 





Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 02 May 2021 at 8:22am
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeonR2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 9:50pm
Chris, it's no old wives tale to put foundations, floors etc. down in the light of the moon. The concrete men will probably poo poo the idea for their convenience but it definitely works. When the old timers used stone for pillers it was always done in the light of the moon. It even applies for setting corner posts and then  tamping them in with creak gravel.  When I poured the sidewalk in front of our house I was working very hard and when I got home I was so wore out that I didn't feel like going to any extra work, so I just put down the 2X4's, poured it on top of the grass, plastic, rebar and that's all. It's been almost thirty years now and no cracks yet.       Leon
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michael V (NM) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 10:54pm
I been watchin your shop,, still need to move it about 1500 miles southwest...
 
my suggestion is, taller, at least enough for a 12 ft. door, preferabley a 14'... I know ,, ya onlys got a WD and WD45's, D17,,, but there might be a day that,, , I wish I could get that in the shop...or I'd sure like to lift that higher..so I can get it loaded in the shop...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 5:37am
oops,didint get them resized.
Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 6:31am
Guys,
 may be able to start ordering materials this week. Its been a long time to get the funds available. Like everything in this broken world it takes more time for about everything.
Regards,
 Chris

D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 11:23am
Originally posted by Dusty MI Dusty MI wrote:

You can use conduit but still have the conduit inside the wall, out of the way and sight. And if you use EMT conduit you do not need the green wire/conductor in the conduit. You still need the ground wire from the metal box to the recitals.
And stranded wire is easier to work with when installing.


Will not pass Code if do that, wire is cheap on initial runs, having to redo later is expensive as then they look at everything with microscopes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 11:27am
Originally posted by Dusty MI Dusty MI wrote:

You can use conduit but still have the conduit inside the wall, out of the way and sight. And if you use EMT conduit you do not need the green wire/conductor in the conduit. You still need the ground wire from the metal box to the recitals.
And stranded wire is easier to work with when installing.


Stranded wire as well no independent ground will not fly if ever inspected, is NOT code in any realm. Independent Ground wire is a must unless ground strap every union on EMT and that IS code. Solid Core 12ga(20a) and 14ga(15a) is a requirement to meet fire safety as stranded wire is only amp rated 1/2 of solid in longer runs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 7:49pm
Folks,
I am going to leave the electrical up to our Master electrician in the family. I am hoping I can get rough wiring installed this fall. Lots of moves to make prior to that.

Here are some pictures:
 The start of a possible jib crane. This is 12 inch, .25 inch wall. One thought is to bore a 24 inch hole about 6 feet deep. added some concrete as a base. set the post then pour the rest of the hole full. Have even considered filling the pipe all the way full also.

Trimmed both ends:


First idea is to add a channel on the top to mount the pivot points.

Do you recognize the channel?:)

base cut out:

Truck and some tractors setting on the pad.

Regards,
 Chris





Edited by Sugarmaker - 15 Jun 2020 at 7:53pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2020 at 7:56am
Originally posted by shameless dude shameless dude wrote:

and....frost will come up under the outside walls to about 4 ft in. I insulated my concrete floor with 2 inch 4x8 foam panels under the concrete. it has never settled or crushed down all these years and I sure can tell the difference on the warmth on the floor every winter.

On the frost and insulation. I really like the idea of the insulation under the floor and outside the building. We have severe winters here in this neck of the woods too. So the cost of the 2" thick x 4' x 8' panels is $25 each the cover 32 sq feet. Just more dollars to consider. Will see how the budget looks and the cost to get it installed properly. I would like it to have that feature. I am not planning the pex in floor heat.

Oh yea, if you think I need to go fly a kit, We did that already. Rhett and I had fun flying his kite on a windy day last week!

Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 16 Jun 2020 at 8:50pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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IBWD MIke View Drop Down
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Joined: 08 Apr 2012
Location: Newton Ia.
Points: 3409
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IBWD MIke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2020 at 8:37am
Chris, if the jib crane is a serious thought do some research on the amount of concrete needed for the base. It takes more than a person would think. I've heard conversations at work about the logistics of installing one. One would be handy but I would tend to shy away from it due to safety concerns.
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