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160 3pt Problems!

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    Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 11:53pm
Hi all, I have a 160 that will lift implements but not at idle and slowly even if your reving her to the moon. With nothing on the 3pt it will lift at idle and position control works. Now what I know doesn't work correctly is the traction booster lever. A previous owner somewhere down the line wired the TB lever to where it can't be moved but even if you take the wire off you cannot move the lever more than halfway down. It's like there is something stopping the lever from going any further down. Also if you let go of the TB handle or don't have the wire on it. while running it will climb on it's own to the top position. I've cleaned the pickup filter, change the entirety of the hydraulic/trans fluid, and the pump is relatively new and like I said even with weight on it, it will lift but slowly and it takes a lot of rpm. One last thing, I had seen a post about another 160 with hydraulic problems (shocker), I can't find the post anymore but one of the commenters asked if the tractor had a piece of railroad track for a front bumper and well mine does, so I figured whoever it was knew the tractor before I got it.

Thanks, any info to help steer me in the right direction to fix this thing would be awesome. P.s. I do have the complete, owners, repair, and parts manuals for this tractor from agcopubs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 7:14am
How does it work when picking something up with the remote?

I know practically nothing about a 160. My uncle had one and I removed and reinstalled the injection pump when it needed rebuilding, but that's about the extent of it. I do know they have had several hydraulic pumps on that one. 

Did you get all the air out of the system? I know they often have to get the air out of theirs, especially when the pump is getting bad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 7:28am
Never been around a 160, but I do know this: they are world famous for 3-point hitch hydraulic issues. So, good luck and hope you get it working.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 7:53am
I just talked to my cousin about it. He seemed to think you have air in the system or the hydraulic pump is shot. He says they have changed the pump several times on their 160. He says it doesn't effect the power steering when the pump is bad.

If you have to replace the pump, here is today's Ebay listing for Allis Chalmers 160 hydraulic pump. (They are probably all made offshore.) They are relatively inexpensive, when comparing to the other 100 series.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave (NE) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 1:34pm
Don't know if this will help, but when I raise the lift arms, with or without an implement on them, I move both the traction booster lever and lift arm hydraulic lever up.  When I lower the implement, I move both levers forward/down.  Seems to work fine for the up or down.  Never have tried to separately use the traction booster like with a plow or something, as whatever implement I had on the 3-point was used either up or down.  Dave
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis-a-holic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 7:33pm
Unfortunately my 160 does not have a remote set so I can't check the hydraulics via the remotes. Also my 160 is a deluxe and has factory power steering that is ran by it's own pump and separate reservoir and my traction boost lever won't travel but about halfway down. I guess I need to put a pressure guage on the pumps test port and start there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tbran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 8:41pm
Look under the front of the seat base - there is a cover there with a strainer underneath. Remove the strainer and clean it  - we take an ice pic and open up the screens with a few pokes for cold weather flow.  If the pump doesn't get supply and then provide pressure to the lift valve system - all kinds of weird things happen.
When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave (NE) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2020 at 8:18pm
Well, as it had been several years since I purchased my one-sixty, I thought it would be prudent to clean the hydraulic screen discussed above.  Pulled it out, cleaned it, put it back in, started the tractor and the 3-point would not function.  Oh, boy, that "don't fix it unless it is broken" adage hit me.  Took the screen out again, made sure it was properly in.  Still didn't work.  Added fluid.  Still didn't work.  Crawled up on the shelf, got a cylinder down, connected it to exterior hydraulic outlets.  Went slow to start with, but then worked properly and the 3-point lifted up.  Really relieved.  Must have been something peculiar that needed to be moving in the hydraulics, but now seems to be working.  Dave
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2020 at 8:26pm
Originally posted by Dave (NE) Dave (NE) wrote:

Well, as it had been several years since I purchased my one-sixty, I thought it would be prudent to clean the hydraulic screen discussed above.  Pulled it out, cleaned it, put it back in, started the tractor and the 3-point would not function.  Oh, boy, that "don't fix it unless it is broken" adage hit me.  Took the screen out again, made sure it was properly in.  Still didn't work.  Added fluid.  Still didn't work.  Crawled up on the shelf, got a cylinder down, connected it to exterior hydraulic outlets.  Went slow to start with, but then worked properly and the 3-point lifted up.  Really relieved.  Must have been something peculiar that needed to be moving in the hydraulics, but now seems to be working.  Dave

Maybe the remote cylinder allowed some air out of the system?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave (NE) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2020 at 10:05am
Yeah, I was thinking maybe air in the system, but manual never mentioned any possibility of that when cleaning the screen nor how to bleed air out if there was air in the system.  Glad the remote cylinder thing worked.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2020 at 10:09am
^I have that problem any time I remove the cover on that filter.  The pump loses prime and i end up using a brake bleeder to pull fluid up to the pump.  The pump is pretty much brand new as ire all the seals in the system.
An optimist sees the glass as half full. The pessimist sees the glass as half empty. The engineer sees a glass with double the required capacity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis-a-holic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2021 at 10:28pm
I know this is a long dead post, had some stuff happened and really haven’t got to mess with the 160 much. Tractor has developed another issue where if your running it at pto speed, like bush hogging, after a little while the lift becomes unresponsive like won’t change heights until you let it idle and then it will go down and it’s back to slow lift operation even with a lot of rpm, soon I’m going to have to break the rear down to change the axle seals cause they just slowly leak fluid constantly

Edited by Allis-a-holic - 16 Aug 2021 at 10:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2021 at 9:04am
Will get to experience shortly if I have hydraulic issues after I get my rebuilt engine running in the next week or so. I know the hydraulics worked well when I bought it but I have drained all fluids to put new in the trans and power steering. Previous owner told me he always used the remote to clear air out of the system after doing a oil change. However, I’m sure there was still some oil in the pick up line which would have assisted with priming the pump. So I will let you know what I will have to do when I finally fire it up. Waiting on a hydraulic line to arrive from AGCO for the PS that broke when I went to install the PS pump to the frame.
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis-a-holic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2021 at 3:33pm
Yeah I have read where a couple people use a remote to clear air but my tractor currently doesn’t have a remote, is there a particular valve people are using to retrofit a remote valves cause I’m sure the OE one is very obsolete
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2021 at 8:49pm
Not sure that would be a possibility unless you found a parts tractor to convert it. I should have filled the sump pipe with oil before final assembly as the tractor is higher in the front than the rear. So the oil will flow back to the trans when drained. You are correct, I have 2 different repair books and neither talks about the best way to prime the pump. A shame it doesn’t have a plug on top of the pump to pour oil into it to prime it. I will soon find out, really don’t like the idea of a rag over the hydraulic outlet with a open plug in it to bleed the air. Quite dangerous with the high pressure it provides. Will be a trial and error I guess.
Otherwise I’ve enjoyed this rebuild, just hope it turns out well. Ive put a lot of cash and time into it. It was a really good tractor before, now I hope it will be a great one.
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2021 at 9:22pm
Very little experience with 160, but have saw petcocks on pumps to prime them or let air out. About the same setup as 6000 series for 3pt. There is a plug under seat, about 20mm wench with a check valve (about 1" Dia.) under it. That can get debree under it. Good luck.     MACK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 7:35am
Just spoke to the service manager at my local AGCO dealer and he said they put Lucas hydraulic treatment in the pump gears before start up. It’s thicker and provides good suction as well as preventing dry start up on the pump. Remove the attachment that is connected to the hydraulic filter and pour it in there. Sounds like a good idea so I will try that and let you know how that works.
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 9:58pm
As you may have read on my 160 rebuild thread I installed my new hydraulic PS line this evening. I bought Lucas oil stabilizer. Instead of risking ripping the manifold gasket I removed the flexible hose from the pump. Inserted the tip of the bottle and proceeded to squeeze as much oil in that I could. The stabilizer is thick and sticks to the gears so there is no dry start up. Also aids in suction from the sump. It must have worked well because I tried my 3 point about a minute after start up and they worked well. Raised and lowered as expected. Obviously have not tried an implement yet but I’m happy with what I saw at this point. Previous owner has never had 3 point problems and has never replaced the pump. Keeping the filters clean and replacing the hydraulic filter as scheduled helps keep the system functioning correctly. The filter near the seat is very important to check and keep clean. Regular maintenance is always key to keeping components working correctly. That’s all the advice I have at this point but will follow this thread with high interest.
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 7:30am
"The filter near the seat is very important to check and keep clean"

Which one is that, the plastic strainer on the suction dipper tube in the transmission?
Some 160's had their main hydraulic filter under the gas tank. However, I think yours is like mine, using a heavy high pressure filter near the radiator. This strainer is the only device to keep particles from going through the pump. I was able to  get a new one about 3 years ago. The old one looked OK, put I feared it was getting brittle, and may break up and allow plastic bits through the pump.
Glad it started up and primed OK for you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 10:26am
Brian, yes the main hydraulic filter is to the the right side of the radiator mounted on a support frame with the PS pump reservoir and air cleaner assembly. There is a large o-ring in the upper housing that needs to be checked to make sure it’s in good condition as a new one doesn’t come with the filter from AGCO. It could cause a air leak but I would think it would leak fluid. The other screen is located to the right of the seat on top of the transmission where the suction tube attaches. Remove the 4 nuts and pull up on the cover, then remove the screen. It’s about 10” inches long. Gently remove any debris with a soft brush and gasoline. This one is usually the one that will cause suction problems. For the remotes there is a filter in the dash to the left of the remote lever. Same thing, remove the nuts and gently clean it.
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 12:27pm
Mine doesn't have the filter at the remotes. I read about it in the owners manual and parts books, but after 48 years of looking, it just isn't there. The 160 was pretty stable, there is not a big variation in features through the years. One exception is the hydraulics, at least two major variations.

As for the original poster's problem. Tricky, going up slow under load seems to indicate weak pump, or a massive internal leak, or open relief valve. The lift piston appears to have an o-ring as piston ring. However the issue with the TB lever not going down tells me something mechanical is broken or mis-adjusted in there. The service manual has a section on how to get the levers in the correct position on their splined shafts. I would guess it would be possible to have the TB system out of whack to the cause your problems.
The hydraulic control valve has a sensitivity control knob and a response control knob (owners manual page 38 and 39).  The service manual tells how to mechanically set up everything, and it seems complicated. It is silent on diagnostic advice (and theory of operation).

Somehow you need to be sure the hydraulic gear-type pump is good-it primes and can make the pressure.
The TB lever should go all way the forward, so fix that.
After that you may have to pull the top cover and inspect everything. The draft control sensing is internal on the lower links. I don't think that will make it any easier...

There is a French website about Renault tractors. The Renault model this 160 was derived from (R7251 "fifty series"), has talk of 3pt lift issues as the big problem area.

It worked when new, re-new it! Good luck.`



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis-a-holic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 1:37pm
Yeah I’ve got to replace my rear axle seals anyway so I was going to tackle checking everything and adjusting the linkage then. My 160 has the high pressure filter under the fuel tank, it sits horizontally with a cap on the right side of the tractor, from what I understand the filter is just a fine metal mesh that you take out and clean. Honestly I’ve been afraid to open it for fear of what I might find and damaging the oring.
The “filter” for this style is a obsolete part but from what I understand you can basically find a similar mesh, cut it to size, roll it up, and put it in there if mine is gone or damaged somehow. Supposedly it had a new pump put on it when I bought it and was working fine but the first time I ran it is when the weak 3pt problem started, from what I understand these pumps are non serviceable and must be replaced if weak so hopefully it’s still ok. Thanks again everyone for the advice, my uncles have told me to give up on it but Allie’ have a place in my heart as I grew up riding around with my Grandfather in his 7020, that tractor got sold years ago but one day I’d love to buy it back, it’s still being farmed with locally so maybe someday!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 9:07pm
A picture of the filter area would be helpful asI have only seen the vertical type like I have that goes down in the transmission from the top. It is a fine mesh screen attached to a plastic frame. Mine is in excellent condition so I will continue the maintenance per the owners manual. The top cap has a magnet attached to it to catch any metal shavings the screen didn’t catch I assume. I don’t recall the shape of the o- ring because all was well when I disassembled it. Go to YouTube and search AC160 transmission filter cleaning. That tractors 3 point stopped working. You will be shocked when he removed the screen. He cleaned it and the 3 point started working again properly. That screen when clogged blocks the suction to the pump. No oil to the pump and it doesn’t take long for it to fail.
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis-a-holic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 10:39pm
I actually had to replace the screen with the plastic frame as some genius in the tractors past was apparently trying to “fix” a lift issue by cutting two of the mesh windows out in the pickup filters frame, luckily I was able to find a great quality used one to replace it but I don’t remember if my cover had a magnet or not. I’ll get some pics of the filter housing under the fuel tank, you can tell someone has been in it cause the nut that is made onto the cap is pretty chewed up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John WV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2021 at 6:07pm
i'm having the same trouble
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2021 at 6:16pm
There are two o-rings involved. One is at the top end of the plastic strainer. I presume this is there to ensure no oil bypasses around the screen. The other o-ring is in the metal cap. This one is your air leak seal, important.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis-a-holic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2021 at 11:39am
I’m gonna check that one tomorrow, I was thinking that I don’t remember really looking at the caps oring when I changed the strainer but I’m basically gonna start over from there and make sure I have no suction side leaks and when I get the seals for the rear axle then I’ll dive into the 3 point hydraulic components cause it all has to come off anyway
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2021 at 11:58am
My problem with loss of prime was the rubber hose connecting
the fwd and aft portions of the metal suction hose (just aft of the starter).
I "gooped up" the hose, permatex I think, and tightened the clamps. No loss of prime since. Nice to not have to buy a new pump. You still have to prime the pump first time.

However, I got the feeling you have additional issues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2021 at 9:39pm

First picture is where the transmission filter is located, 2nd picture is where you check the oil level and add transmission oil. Make sure all connections are tight especially the sump tube rubber hose connection as Brian stated.
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2021 at 9:20pm
I’ve reassembled my 160 and as I tested all functions, my 3 pt would not lift. Took a nipple fitting that would normally screw onto a hydraulic hose going to a cylinder and inserted in the bottom rear outlet. Operated the hydraulic remote rearward until all air and a stream of solid fluid shot out. Moved it to the upper outlet, moved remote lever forward until all air came out a solid shot of fluid came out. Operated 3 pt and all is well. You have to expel all air in the lines for the system to work. Topped off fluid and it has been working well. Doesn’t take a minute to bleed it.

Edited by AC720Man - 27 Sep 2021 at 9:21pm
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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