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Electrical issue

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SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 12:53pm
Sometimes it's wise to pay an electrician for things like this. I know just enough about electrical to be dangerous.
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tadams(OH) View Drop Down
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Joined: 17 Sep 2009
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tadams(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 1:40pm
Sounds like a loose screw on one of the connections. I had a problem with kicking a breaker at a out building that had a 100 amp box it was the screws on the breaker in the main box that was feeding it. But there should be a ground rod at every box.
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Dusty MI View Drop Down
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dusty MI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 3:15pm
Depending on where in S.W. MI. I could maybe go and look at it.
I'm In the Charlotte, MI. area south of Potterville.

Dusty
917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"
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FREEDGUY View Drop Down
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Joined: 15 Apr 2017
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by SteveM C/IL SteveM C/IL wrote:

Sometimes it's wise to pay an electrician for things like this. I know just enough about electrical to be dangerous.
 
LMAO !! That's EXACTLY What I am towards electric AND mechanical work !! Yes, I am going to update any resolution to the problem !! Thanks again to ALL posters !!
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DaveKamp View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 11:24pm
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

"theoretically" there should be no second ground rod with the SUB box... "BUT" there is suppose to be 4 wires to the SUB so the ground and neutral are separate... but that never happens on the farm ........... I normally add a ground rod a the barn... see what others think. 
 
That might "help", but you still have a problem with the white/ neutral / ground wire, somewhere.


This was my point-  NEC 'suggests' single-point grounding at the point-of-entry, which most inspectors will say is at the METER, but in an agricultural scenario, that would result in many instances of several-hundred-feet of overhead triplex needing an additional grounding conductor... and of course, any time a building hosted an atmospheric discharge, it'd invite a 'multi-point fire'.

So, basically, any sane agriculturalist would bury a ground stake at the building or grain bin.

But this is simply a case of open neutral.  A technical note- the meter used, is probably high enough input impedance so as to not register a significant difference in unladen circuit resistance if the local ground was tied to a highly-resistive neutral...  or in less-technical colloquial verbage... the meter is so sensitive, that it wouldn't be able to notice a bad neutral until you put a 120v load on it... which is why you see what appears to be 'good' voltage until you flip a breaker.

That bad neutral could be anywhere from the panel, back to the main, so be prepared to open many boxes.

I wish I was there, with a big screwdriver... I'm certain I'd find it in a few minutes.  Most of the world's most confusing electrical problems are the result of open neutrals.
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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FREEDGUY View Drop Down
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Joined: 15 Apr 2017
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2019 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by DaveKamp DaveKamp wrote:

Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

"theoretically" there should be no second ground rod with the SUB box... "BUT" there is suppose to be 4 wires to the SUB so the ground and neutral are separate... but that never happens on the farm ........... I normally add a ground rod a the barn... see what others think. 
 
That might "help", but you still have a problem with the white/ neutral / ground wire, somewhere.


This was my point-  NEC 'suggests' single-point grounding at the point-of-entry, which most inspectors will say is at the METER, but in an agricultural scenario, that would result in many instances of several-hundred-feet of overhead triplex needing an additional grounding conductor... and of course, any time a building hosted an atmospheric discharge, it'd invite a 'multi-point fire'.

So, basically, any sane agriculturalist would bury a ground stake at the building or grain bin.

But this is simply a case of open neutral.  A technical note- the meter used, is probably high enough input impedance so as to not register a significant difference in unladen circuit resistance if the local ground was tied to a highly-resistive neutral...  or in less-technical colloquial verbage... the meter is so sensitive, that it wouldn't be able to notice a bad neutral until you put a 120v load on it... which is why you see what appears to be 'good' voltage until you flip a breaker.

That bad neutral could be anywhere from the panel, back to the main, so be prepared to open many boxes.

I wish I was there, with a big screwdriver... I'm certain I'd find it in a few minutes.  Most of the world's most confusing electrical problems are the result of open neutrals.
 
So do I, Smile
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SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2019 at 1:58pm
Can't decide if Dave want's to tighten screws or short across things....
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JC(WI) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2019 at 2:20pm
Well, if it fries off the end of the screwdriver, you know you got juice there... liquid molten metal for a few seconds...LOL
He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
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FREEDGUY View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2019 at 5:20pm
I must admit that the original wiring was done by dad in '72 (with a different breaker box) but all of the boxes;recepts' and switch boxs'; are metal and were exposed to a farrow-to-finish operation for 25 years, Dad has an electrician coming to the farm tomorrow so I hope to have an update.
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