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Ca hydraulic pump

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MACK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 10:07pm
There should be a gasket.        MACK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 5:29am
ah, there's supposed to be a gasket ! I know , mine came off is 87,654,321 pieces....
..not that I was counting...Cry
I made my own as I had a sheet of gasket material and some proper hole punches.
I'm wondering is the discoloration of part is really rust from having sat 'forever and a day' without oil ?  I KNOW the diff gears of Troy were RUSTY.
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

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Hunt4Allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 6:29am
Hmmmmmm, so someone else had this apart before and did not put a gasket back on?Do I need to drain oil from anywhere else, another words is it shared to any where else that I cannot see right now with the pump off I can see it's completely drained where the camshaft and couple of gears are in my pictures?

Edited by Hunt4Allis - 26 Mar 2020 at 6:30am
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Dave(inMA) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave(inMA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 8:12am
I'll be interested to hear what you find inside the drawbar control housing! When I pulled mine off yesterday, there was an ample supply of goopy thick old oil in there. [See Drawbar Control Repair thread for pics.]
WC, CA, D14, WD45
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Hunt4Allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 8:13am
Just getting ready to...
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Hunt4Allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 10:59am

Just quick update,
Well I'm glad I took the time to remove the entire thing and disassemble because I found two cotter pins that had fallen out of the two yellow circled areas in drawbar control assembly and as I'm going through the entire thing I'm finding bits and pieces of those cotter pins (the linkages that these pins were supposed to be in could be why i had intermittent control because after looking at how the linkages work and react to other parts inside)
More to come after lunch
Matt
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Dave(inMA) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave(inMA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 11:08am
Matt, so the broken cotter pins might have jammed the linkage now and then? Could be. I also am seeing what looks like rust on a few of the parts in there....some water ran out the drain hole when I took mine apart, but I didn't find any rust.

Also, I'm wondering how much oil is supposed to be lurking in the control unit when everything is working properly?

Dave
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Hunt4Allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 11:25am
Jammed/ not worked properly b/c they weren't making contact with other points when they should have been...( The cotter pins keep everything aligned to one another)

And actually the reason I noticed is because of your other post showing your drawbar control unit that has a cotter pin in the picture and I was looking at my same part and there wasn't one that's when I realized a couple of them were missing and ground up inside (it's the picture that shows how you got the drawbar control apart from the hydraulic pump)
Thanks Matt

Edited by Hunt4Allis - 26 Mar 2020 at 11:28am
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Hunt4Allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 12:01pm
My tractor's are always parked under roof so it makes me wonder how I obviously got water mixed back in with the oil that I just replaced in this tractor last spring?
I did drain the oil from both the drawbar drain plug end the rear diff but I did not drain anyting out of the hoses or cylinders which I'm guessing is how the new oil which I now know was low quality 303 oil became so milky looking again...
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Dave(inMA) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave(inMA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 12:03pm
Cool. Glad one of my pictures helped. 

Have you removed the arm/shaft that the control connecting link slides onto? It has a funky rectangular head that that slides onto the shaft that comes out of the pump. Curious as to how the head is locked onto the pump shaft - maybe a woodruff key?

Dave
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NE GA Allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NE GA Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 12:13pm
Don’t be afraid of these pumps but definitely use caution when testing. Whatever you do stand clear of anything that might be a “weak” link.
Here’s my story:
Bought a CA and changed the gear oil since it was pretty milky. Probably used a trans-hydraulic fluid from tractor supply but can’t remember for sure. Well after getting that all done, I managed to get the pump working but I’ve always been weary of these pumps if I have not tore them down. That being said I never usually let the pump kick out when it brings the cylinders up all the way, I’ll stop the pump when the arms raise up to the top. Well by mistake I did not stop the pump one day when I raised the arms and BAM the pump blew one of the cylinders apart. Luckily I was sitting on the tractor so the platform protected me from getting high speed fluid from piercing the skin. So I did the usual thing checked out the cylinder and thought that it looked like it may have had previous damage. Ok I’ll put another cylinder on. Then same thing happened again, forgot to stop the pump and it blew another cylinder. Needless to say I have not changed out that cylinder as a reminder to not use the hydraulics on that tractor.

Long story short, try to use some sort of protection if possible while testing a pump, they put out some serious PSI. You don’t need steel or fluid under the skin if something fails.

Edited by NE GA Allis - 26 Mar 2020 at 12:25pm
Keeping Allis alive with:
2 B’s, 1 C, 6 CA’s, 2 WD’s,
1 WD45, 3 D15D’s, 1 D17

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Hunt4Allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 6:22pm

Having a hard time figuring out how to get yellow circled item out?

On exploded view of it components it shows a snap ring on opposite side of yellow circled item inside hole which I can't even see to remove never mind actually getting a snap ring off inside a 3-4" deep area that's only 3/8" diameter...
I keep removing other easier parts hoping it will somehow come out as a whole unit or something but no luck yet.
Info appreciated, thanks Matt
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MACK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 8:59pm
You need to pull the plate off the yellow circle is on.        MACK
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Hunt4Allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 9:45pm
Hmmm, ok
I've done that a few times but it wouldn't budge...
Maybe it's hung up by my ground up cotter pins or spring parts I've been finding in it.
So it will come out( yellow circled part) with the plate that's behind it and the components attached to it stay on it all the way out and then I can remove the "c"clip after it's out?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave(inMA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 9:54pm
Wouldn't the shaft that extends through the plate need to be attached to something behind that plate in order to link the pump to the control unit?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 10:12pm
That shaft pushes on the valves to shift them in "pump" mode...just setting in a hole.
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Hunt4Allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 10:26pm
Came off with a putty knife
It doesn't look like the rest of it can easily come apart?
I've gone this far and I believe I found some small chunks of spring in passageways and wonder if it's from the under side of the rollers that is a bit lower in this picture than the other 3 rollers?(can't tell what's normal height from exploded view I have)


The left one is lower than other 3 to right, so what I've found small chunks of what seams to be spring material could be part of left spring which is why it's shorter now so the left one is lower?
Thanks Matt
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MACK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2020 at 6:30am
The spools that the small spools came out of, need to come out and be cleaned.   MACK     
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Hunt4Allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2020 at 6:44am
Not sure I'm understanding correctly mack
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2020 at 6:56am
The 'spools' or 'plungers' are the 3 'big slugs of steel' that the 'cam followers' push upon to make the oil move. They're 11/16" in diameter according to the AGCO picture, online.
In your picture, you can see 'ridges' or lines around them. Once you remove them, use 1000g autobody sandpaper to 'hone' or clean them up. To cleanup the cavities where they sit in, I wrapped 1000g paper on a pencil and twirled it in the holes. Everything should be nice and shiny and smoooooth.

Jay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2020 at 7:03am
Ok thanks
I'm not sure how these three large plugs and one smaller one come out because the cam followers do not move back away enough for them to come out (in my limited experience)
The long pin that goes through all of the cam followers opposite the roller (where they attached to the body of the pump) seems like it is pressed in with Force because I tapped on it lightly and it did not seem to want to move?
Here's the pin( yellow arrow pointing to the end of it.


Edited by Hunt4Allis - 27 Mar 2020 at 7:15am
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Dave(inMA) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave(inMA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2020 at 2:39pm
Matt - sent you a PM. 

Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2020 at 8:46pm
No, the small and large spools lay length ways of pump. You have the small ones out, the large ones are what the small ones came out of. The end one will have two orings on it. Replace the orings along with the two on unloading value.      MACK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dartguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2020 at 9:12pm
Originally posted by Dakota Dave Dakota Dave wrote:

No such thing as a kit for this pump. It only has two O rings for soft parts the shaft seals and they never go bad unless you tear them. Take it off the tractor put on the bench it's best to use something like a cake sheet to disassemble on. Each of the 4 Pistons has a small spring behind them. Each of the 4 plugs on the top has a ball behind it pull the control back part off . Slide out the pins that hold the actuating levers in place and remove the Pistons and springs make sure the springs aren't broke 3 Are the same the 4th is smaller diameter. Now carefully clean out the passages from the piston there are no seals just metal to metal the seats up top and the balls need to be clean and not deformed. Keep track of the 4 little slugs that slide in from the back they need to go back in the same order. There is a spring behind them that pushes against the feel after valve adjuster screw. More than 90 % of these pumps can be repaired by simple good cleaning. The pump Pistons get stuck and the cheek balls get crud in them. I've had 2 pumps that needed a spring and one I had to repair the linkage in the cap it was wore out. I assume it ran a long time without oil as it was all rusty. This pump should have oil in it. I've only ever seen one with rust. Once you get it on the bench an take it apart it's pretty apparent how it goes back together. You can look up the parts diagram on the AGCO parts site.
Dave, my 1951 CA has 3 pistons which are stuck in the down position. I have no idea how to get them unstuck. Can you suggest what I need to do please? Thanks, 
Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 6:46am
Start digging 😜into into her
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 7:12am
Use some penetration oil around them. With a small hammer, a quick rap will some times bounce them up enough to get ahold of them. Have had to weld a nut to them and twist them out.            MACK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dartguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 12:06pm
Originally posted by MACK MACK wrote:

Use some penetration oil around them. With a small hammer, a quick rap will some times bounce them up enough to get ahold of them. Have had to weld a nut to them and twist them out.            MACK
I have it submerged in diesel fuel right now. I thought it odd that 1 out of 4 was not stuck! Thank you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 4:32pm
I'm wondering if I could make a temporary plate to go over where the hydraulic pump normally sits. refill the transmission with fluid drive the tractor around a bit then drain it so that I do not get any of the leftover junk from my transmission or anywhere else that I cannot get to to flush out of it back into my pump that's super clean now...Does it sound like a feasible plan or not?( Also trying to come up with a way to completely clean out the two hydraulic cylinders for the three-point?)
I've lowered and raised the 3-point arms manually and got a lot of milky watery leftover hydraulic fluid out of the hoses and cylinders but I'm wondering if I put the hydraulic lines in a bucket of fluid and manually move the 3-point if I could suction up enough hydraulic fluid to clean it all out?
I'm mostly thinking of doing all of the flushing because of the metal filings I found on the magnetic drain plug (that was the 2 cotter pins from the drawbar control linkage that were ground up and then recirculated through the whole system I'm sure?)

Edited by Hunt4Allis - Yesterday at 4:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 4:48pm
I've made temporary plates from 1/4" finished plywood( mahogany flooring plywood). Actually sealed up pretty good without a gasket. Use 'fender' washers  to spread the load from the bolts and nuts.
Your bucket cleaning idea will work, not too sure how much more 'milk' you'll get out, but heck, better to do it now than ,arrghhh...later !
Jay
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave(inMA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 4:51pm
I really like the idea of a temporary plate. I think you should make one and then rent it out to guys like me!

I removed my hydraulic pump this afternoon - happily only getting what appears to be hydraulic oil dripping out of the cylinder hoses. But flushing everything would be a good idea....surely can't hurt!

Dave
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