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ford8nwd View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 Sep 2020 at 6:49pm
As a lifelong atheist, I believe a women has a right to choose whether it is right to abort, or wrong. I do not think it should be decided by politicians. Her body is her own, not to be in the control of politicians. We are a free country, not run by religious zealots. The bible should have absolutely no influence on our governmental operations. Separation of church and state, remember? We atheists have just as many rights as the rest of you. I could care less what the bible says, it has no meaning to me. As far as morality goes, I feel I'm probably more moral than most. I've been married 67 years in May. my son just celebrated 41 years, and my daughter 39 years, with never any scandals. What would have I gained with a belief in God? Which brings me to the question, what is so bad about being an atheist, in your eyes, just because I have no belief in the supernatural? Does that make me evil? Just asking.



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DrAllis View Drop Down
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How can you: #1. Look at the complexity of the human eye and ever consider it came from an amoeba ??  #2. Study the human brain and not think it was designed??  #3. Look at the pictures our most modern Hubbel telescope has taken and tell me how each of the billions of stars came into being and how do all the planets of each solar system stay where they do year after year, decade after decade, millennium after millennium ?? It ain't not by accident and you will one day figure it out, but it may be one day too late.  I could go on and on with more and more examples, but this should be enough.

Edited by DrAllis - 20 Sep 2020 at 7:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Walker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2020 at 7:45pm
How's that Satan worshipping thing goin for ya?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2020 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by dorf dorf wrote:

As a lifelong atheist, I believe a women has a right to choose whether it is right to abort, or wrong. I do not think it should be decided by politicians. Her body is her own, not to be in the control of politicians. We are a free country, not run by religious zealots. The bible should have absolutely no influence on our governmental operations. Separation of church and state, remember? We atheists have just as many rights as the rest of you. I could care less what the bible says, it has no meaning to me. As far as morality goes, I feel I'm probably more moral than most. I've been married 67 years in May. my son just celebrated 41 years, and my daughter 39 years, with never any scandals. What would have I gained with a belief in God? Which brings me to the question, what is so bad about being an atheist, in your eyes, just because I have no belief in the supernatural? Does that make me evil? Just asking.




Frankly, my dear dorf, I don't care what you worship, or don't.  What I do care about is innocent life.  What is more innocent than a baby?  A baby, in the womb. A lot of this argument is centered on when life begins.  If not at conception, when egg and sperm unite, then when?  When is it right to end a life? As to whether you are evil, you'll find out, at the same time as the rest of us...Wink


Edited by DiyDave - 20 Sep 2020 at 7:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2020 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by ford8nwd ford8nwd wrote:

As a lifelong atheist, I believe a women has a right to choose whether it is right to abort, or wrong. I do not think it should be decided by politicians. Her body is her own, not to be in the control of politicians. We are a free country, not run by religious zealots. The bible should have absolutely no influence on our governmental operations. Separation of church and state, remember? We atheists have just as many rights as the rest of you. I could care less what the bible says, it has no meaning to me. As far as morality goes, I feel I'm probably more moral than most. I've been married 67 years in May. my son just celebrated 41 years, and my daughter 39 years, with never any scandals. What would have I gained with a belief in God? Which brings me to the question, what is so bad about being an atheist, in your eyes, just because I have no belief in the supernatural? Does that make me evil? Just asking.



Whether you are an atheist or not, murder is still murder
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2020 at 7:59pm
"Thou shalt not murder" is one of God's commandments (not suggestions). So, why do we have this Judeo/Christian law on our American books ?? Why not just let murder happen wherever and whenever each of us sees fit?? ( like Chicago for example).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote modirt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2020 at 8:06pm
Religion aside, would you be willing to sign your life away to me to decide what happens to it? My choice whether you live or die? Anywhere, anytime, anyplace and by any method? Say.....hack you up into bits with a corn knife?

Probably not. I've asked a lot of folks who believe in abortion and never got a taker.  If you could ask an unborn, you would likely get the same answer. Nobody, when given a choice opts out to surrender the choice of their life or death to somebody else.  Civil societies have pretty much codified that into law. We all enjoy the right to life.....even says so in the Constitution.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ford8nwd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2020 at 9:02pm
A fetus belongs to the parents solely, and not to anyone, or anything else, period. After birth, as a child, it has rights, as does any other human being. Why should anyone else have control over a mothers' body? It is hers, and hers alone, not some politicians' property, no matter what your religion is. Why should your religion govern my behavior? Incidentally, for what its worth, no member of my family to my knowledge, has had an abortion, not that I would care in the slightest if they had.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2020 at 9:20pm
Lonn-----Whether you are an atheist or not, murder is still murder

YEP......... what does RELIGION have to do with MURDER ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2020 at 10:15pm
DD, ford is so screwed up that he isn't even a dorf, but total @$$backwards makin him a drof...
DROF, to bad your mother did not abort you... so you could tell all how good it felt...
 Your self righteous pious atheism is a religion all it's own... Doing the works of the devil, ol' Lucifer, Satan.  He works with deviousness, lies and deceits.. And deceives he does, your living proof of it, tho you will deny it.
   As for the embryo, the woman carries the fetus, but the genetics are 50% mothers and 50% the fathers... thus she can only claim 50% of the child. Yea, she kills her 50% and murders the other 50%.... wait,,, she murders both her and the fathers child. To kill is just an act, but to murder is thought about and planned out.
Many of those  that get abortions will tell you they never forget that moment... some regret it, some will feel shame afterwards, some just go crazier, some will try to end their own life afterwards...  Liberalism is a sickness perpetrated by those that have no real foundation to life and truth.

  AS for the Constitution, it states you have the freedom of religion, doesn't say freedom from religion...   Definitely the founders did not want a government religion like the british an the romans had.

 Drof, better give your commander a big salute when your marchin away with his orders... cuzz he likes that kind of respect.Evil Smile 

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Life is a heart beat. death is no heart beat. Things aren't complicated ,people make things complicated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2020 at 5:12am
Correction AC, IDIOTS make things complicated.

Atheism, the inability to have empathy except to one's own self gratifications.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2020 at 5:51am
Yep, Atheism is the ultimate selfishness
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re: Atheism is the ultimate selfishness

hmm...seems to me the Vatican is FULL of gold and $$$, yet millions and millions of Catholics go hungry every night.....

I also know of several 'non believers' who gave their lives  in wars, while those with 'religious convictions' never saw battle.....

Sometimes I wonder if the 'pro-religion' groups are similar to the 'anti Trumper' groups. Stead fast that  THEIR belief is the ONLY one belief that ALL of us should have.

Sadly , it's too bad we all can't just get along.....life is waaaay too short.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2020 at 6:34am
The Catholic Religion takes in a vast amount of money but the majority goes right back out, the general Catholic Religion Priest and Nun live a self imposed simple impoverished life.  The Vatican is Reported to hold vast amounts yet no one has supplied any evidence to that effect, and Yes I am Catholic by birth/raising, I do not inflict my religious values upon anyone else where I have been berated by Atheists trying to gain a convert to their Non Belief.  Each is allowed their own choice, I have mine Atheist have theirs, Mine is to give to compassion pleas for comfort and well being in God's Name and empathy.  To believe as Dorf does as to Abortion, his choice Not mine where he earns any delivered argument against it and angst of it.

As to the OP, Life begins as a Cell divides, it IS and will remain in my determination as a Living Organism, it is NOT a Mother's 'Property' to destroy or discard at will because she does not want it after a sexual event.  A Unviable entity will self abort, a failed pregnancy can and do auto abort, is NOT the same function.
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I am not trying to convert anyone, I could care less about your beliefs. Everyone should live as they see fit adhering to the golden rule, it's a good one. If you live, and let live, without trying to convert others to your beliefs, the world would be a much happier place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2020 at 6:51am
Then stop reflecting on your Own BS Beliefs here. That is in essence pandering a conversion or acceptance which will not find here.

Edited by DMiller - 21 Sep 2020 at 6:53am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2020 at 7:11am
Originally posted by ford8nwd ford8nwd wrote:

I am not trying to convert anyone, I could care less about your beliefs. Everyone should live as they see fit adhering to the golden rule, it's a good one. If you live, and let live, without trying to convert others to your beliefs, the world would be a much happier place.
But what you are saying is that you believe in murder..... you just want to name it abortion to make it more sterile.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2020 at 7:12am
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

re: Atheism is the ultimate selfishness

hmm...seems to me the Vatican is FULL of gold and $$$, yet millions and millions of Catholics go hungry every night.....

I also know of several 'non believers' who gave their lives  in wars, while those with 'religious convictions' never saw battle.....

Sometimes I wonder if the 'pro-religion' groups are similar to the 'anti Trumper' groups. Stead fast that  THEIR belief is the ONLY one belief that ALL of us should have.

Sadly , it's too bad we all can't just get along.....life is waaaay too short.

Jay
Don't get me started on Catholicism Shocked
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grayray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2020 at 7:28am
I have two thoughts on the OP.  First, our constitution provides for freedom of religion. I feel you should be entitled to your beliefs whether it be Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, or atheism, or whatever. It is your choice and you are free to make that choice. The Constitution provides for that freedom. I have no problem with you being an atheist. Where I have a problem is when the liberal atheists want to force their lack of belief in a supreme being onto the rest of us. The Constitution provides for freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. I can accept your right to be an atheist, but you MUST also accept my right to be a Christian. However, the left is always trying to prevent us from exercising our rights. As much as the atheists feel offended by Christianity, we are also offended by your atheism. But that is OK since we all have the right to practice whatever religion, or lack thereof, we choose.

 

Secondly, I agree with a woman’s right to choose what she does with her own body, however, a fetus in NOT her body. It is the body of another human being. Consider this hypothetical situation. What if your mother had chosen to abort you? Would that have been her body, or yours?   Had this happened, you would not be here to be posting on this forum. You would not have been able to enjoy 67 years of marriage. You would not have been able to enjoy your son and daughter. From the original post, it appears that you love your family very much, and I commend you for that. You should be very proud of them, but had your mother chose abortion, this family would not exist. Do you have grandchildren? If so, isn’t that the greatest thing to ever happen to you? I know my grandchildren are the greatest. I wouldn’t trade them for anything. However, had any of the women in your life chosen abortion somewhere along the way, you family would not be what it is today. You would not have the ability to love and cherish our children or grandchildren the way you do today.

 

I can accept your atheism, but I CANNOT accept you beliefs on abortion.

 

 

 

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If you weren't trying to convert why even bring it up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2020 at 9:07am
Originally posted by ford8nwd ford8nwd wrote:

As a lifelong atheist, I believe a women has a right to choose whether it is right to abort, or wrong. I do not think it should be decided by politicians. Her body is her own, not to be in the control of politicians. We are a free country, not run by religious zealots. The bible should have absolutely no influence on our governmental operations. Separation of church and state, remember? We atheists have just as many rights as the rest of you. I could care less what the bible says, it has no meaning to me. As far as morality goes, I feel I'm probably more moral than most. I've been married 67 years in May. my son just celebrated 41 years, and my daughter 39 years, with never any scandals. What would have I gained with a belief in God? Which brings me to the question, what is so bad about being an atheist, in your eyes, just because I have no belief in the supernatural? Does that make me evil? Just asking.




I believe your mailman should have the right to choose whether to kill you or not, right or wrong.

How much sense does that make?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote modirt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2020 at 9:11am
Given time, I think OP might get there as far as abortion is concerned. I take it from his comments he does not want to put his own head on the chopping block.....literally. And seems to acknowledge that infants born to this world are worthy of protection under the law. The only thing that remains is deciding at what stage in life that protection begins.

To any thinking person, unless something is done to intervene, life begins at conception and ends at a natural death. There is no other rational way to look at it. That is simple physiology that even an atheist can see.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2020 at 9:12am
Originally posted by ford8nwd ford8nwd wrote:

I am not trying to convert anyone, I could care less about your beliefs. Everyone should live as they see fit adhering to the golden rule, it's a good one. If you live, and let live, without trying to convert others to your beliefs, the world would be a much happier place.

Live and let live? You just said that???

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I believe that living fetus belongs to GOD not just the parents, ABORTION is wrong.
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Wow.  I mean no disrespect Steve, and certainly do not intent to offend you, but I am a little surprised to hear you say that.  That is a pretty conservative viewpoint. For once I have to agree with you.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ford8nwd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2020 at 11:32am
Abortion is just something we can never agree on...that's what makes the world go round! It would be a boring place if we all agreed, right?
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There are two things of your most righteous believes that you are completely ignoring in your argument.  

#1  The constitution.  It allows for women the choice of deciding what they wish to do with their body.  However, there is nothing in the Constitution against abortion!

#2.  You are using the bible incorrectly.  You are supposed to be praying for the person to make the right decision in your eyes.  Not walking into a church and murdering a man in front of his wife for your believes.  You are supposed to be praying for people not condemning them.

That would also be true for atheists.  You should be praying that they see the light in your belief of a supreme being not calling them evil names.  If you meet one face to face you are supposed to say you are praying for them not be screaming evil things at them.

Actually, I'm not sure there is anything in your book that directly says anything regarding abortion!  Whether they be right or wrong.  But I'm sure you will be throwing out chapter and verse to prove me wrong.  Which, as far as I'm concerned is taking something out of context.

There ain't no chapter and verse references in the Constitution.  You can't use one when it's convenieant for you and then use your book for some other thing when that is convenient for you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2020 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by john(MI) john(MI) wrote:

There are two things of your most righteous believes that you are completely ignoring in your argument.  

#1  The constitution.  It allows for women the choice of deciding what they wish to do with their body.  However, there is nothing in the Constitution against abortion!

#2.  You are using the bible incorrectly.  You are supposed to be praying for the person to make the right decision in your eyes.  Not walking into a church and murdering a man in front of his wife for your believes.  You are supposed to be praying for people not condemning them.

That would also be true for atheists.  You should be praying that they see the light in your belief of a supreme being not calling them evil names.  If you meet one face to face you are supposed to say you are praying for them not be screaming evil things at them.

Actually, I'm not sure there is anything in your book that directly says anything regarding abortion!  Whether they be right or wrong.  But I'm sure you will be throwing out chapter and verse to prove me wrong.  Which, as far as I'm concerned is taking something out of context.

There ain't no chapter and verse references in the Constitution.  You can't use one when it's convenieant for you and then use your book for some other thing when that is convenient for you.

What an absolutely 100% idiotic moron, filled with lies and evil. You are correct in one thing.....we should pray for you.....but you'll also have to step up and help yourself, all we can pray is that you do. My God man, you are a fool.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2020 at 12:09pm
Lets throw drof to the lions and call that a sport...  
 Wasn't that what the proud romans did to the Christians???
  Lets do it to the atheists...  that should be good entertainment.

 a pic for jonnie...  and it isn't as gross as the pics of hacked up ones...


Think both drof an jonnie have had lobotomies done to them already.
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