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any ideas?

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shameless dude View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 Oct 2017 at 10:14pm
boughts a new ceiling light for the kitchen. old one quit working. so we gots that fancy one with the metal grid and 2 lights, usually pics show where people hangs their pans on hooks off it. our ceiling is to low to hang any pans off it, but it still looks good. any ways...finally gots it hung, (my balance has kinda gone to chit the past couple years), puts 2 LED bulbs in it.....and nothing! it don't light up. I have 2 light switches in the kitchen, one on each end of the room, I replaced one switch, and will do the other tomarrow, if that don't work, i'm at a loss. the ceiling light is on the same curcuit as the plug ins on the counter, and they all work.
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JC(WI) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 12:14am
Maybe you forgots to hook up some wires???   ....... correctly? or turn the circuit back on?
He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
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desertjoe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 4:56am

   Oh,,,OH,,,,,Good Buddy,,,It lookin like maybe the "old" fixture was OK just something else wrong 'sides the fixture,,,???  Don't you got you a test meter,,??  You want I should send you one of them Freebies I got at Harbor freight grand opening down to C-Bad?? I gots 3-4 of em by goin in and out till they finally caught on and told me no more free testors,,dang cheap people,,,,!!!Wink
 Seriously,,I ain't no juice-trician,,but using a testor is your best friend ('cept me, you understand)  If the old one "quit" and the new one don't work,,,,,you got issues with thet circuit,,,don'cha think,,,???Wink
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darrel in ND View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darrel in ND Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 7:31am
You haven't smelled any burnt mice lately, have you.....? Darrel
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Hubert (Ga)engine7 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hubert (Ga)engine7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 8:25am
Possibly a bad switch. Like DJ says - get a test meter and go to chasing sparks. You will have to have 3 way switches in both locations and they have to be wired correctly for the light to work. The receptacles should NOT be on the same circuit as the light fixture but "electricians" often take shortcuts and pull power from the closest source. Pull a wiring schematic off the internet to get an idea of how the wires need to be connected, no guarantee yours will be the same though.
Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.
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Hubert (Ga)engine7 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hubert (Ga)engine7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 8:40am
Originally posted by darrel in ND darrel in ND wrote:

You haven't smelled any burnt mice lately, have you.....? Darrel

A  likely possibility. I almost had an out building burn down because mice or squirrels (tree rats) got in the attic and chewed the insulation off the wire going to the water heater and it shorted out. The breaker tripped but when I tried to reset it a spark set the insulation or their nest on fire. Had to bust through 1x6 ceiling boards so I could get a water hose in there to the seat of the fire. I have known the little bastards to bite through copper wire.
Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 8:44am
'fun' job... there's 3 or 4 ways you can actually wire in a light with 2, 3 way switches as well as a couple 'creative' ways 'electricians' use....
The basic idea( it's esy to 'see' the flow here) is...
The power comes from breaker in main panel to the marked terminal of one of the 3Way switches.
Then from there power goes to TWO wires to the other 3 Way switch
Then from the marked terminal power goes to the light bulb.

They can be a real 'can of worms' as wires/cables won't be marked and there are 'variations' that baffle anyone.

One clue is it USED to work, so the wires are probably OK. The switch that you replaced, did you wire it exactly as the old one?
Too late now, but taking pictures really,really helps as well as putting tags on the wires.

If the LEDs are screw in types, replace with a normal GOOD bulb. That way you KNOW it ain't a bad bulb...

Jay

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Dusty MI View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dusty MI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 8:48am
I understand that Led lamps are polarized, try turning the lamps around/over or whatever it takes to reverse the the polarity.

Dusty
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TBone View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TBone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 9:05am
Some of the OLD switches had the wires in different places. You can't put the wires on the same studs on a NEW switch. The old switches are different than the new switches.
Hope that makes sense.
The switch has 3 places to put wires. 2 on one side and 1 on the other. If you wire it the same as the old switch, you probably have one wire in the wrong place.
The wires SHOULD be Black, Red, White and (green-ground).
The feed from the circuit breaker or fuse panel will only be two wires, Black and white and (green-ground).
Hard to tell you on the way to wire it as some of the older wiring in houses is nothing but black. That's a MESS to say the least.
Look on the OLD switch to see if there are any numbers or letters to tell you what goes there. Then look at the new switch to correlate it.
HTHs
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Stan IL&TN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stan IL&TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 9:24am
I suspect that one of those three way switches has went bad.  You need a meter to be sure you don't have power up to the new ceiling light to be sure then you can test at each switch to see if power makes it that far.
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Ray54 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 9:48am
Some people kinda leave themselves open with out thinking. Cause I am so sure there are a lot of ideas floating around about one DUDE,many may not be helpful to current problem so back to being the helpful deplorable's most of us are.


Maybe time to stop trying to beCry Mr HandymanCry and get some able to fiscally climb,crawl,and stand on there head.  I am at that place also but I have 3 kids Winktime to start leaning on them for more help some times. But if the wires are where you can reach SAFELY you need a meter or other device to tell you what kind of power you have.

I have a meter but kinda hard to hold make connection for test and read moving needle in some of the places you get standing on your head. So I got a little plastic pen like device with test leads that has 1 light on at 110,2 at 220 and so on and was cheap at the electric supply store. An if you have not shenanigan the poor local running the real electric supply they can help you a lot more than going to that Tractor Supply and the other big chains that end up with a lot of know nothings.  So good luck,and don't come crying about falling off the ladder.


Edited by Ray54 - 02 Oct 2017 at 10:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 10:19am
Hot lead - ground - traveler wire - need to be hooked in right . 
Switch position of the travelers needs to be looked at close - which wire is used between switched and to the light . 
 Then in hallway I have 2 / 3 way switches with dimmer built into them and also delay circuit so light dims slowly when you push to go off - they take about 10 seconds to go dark - have same in kitchen light with the 2 switched and dimmer. 
 one of them switches went bad - real chore tracing which one the first time around - sometimes the reading of the direction on the box the switch came in helps . 
 Oh and some LED bulbs do not work with dimmers - again look at the directions on bulb package. 
 LED bulbs are polarity sensitive - but in AC electric there isn't a polarity issue , it switches every 1/60 th of a second - 60 cycle AC current 



Edited by Coke-in-MN - 02 Oct 2017 at 10:21am
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shameless dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 10:27pm
I looked at all my new switches I already gots, and only find the ones for normal use, not 3-way. I did hook up one of those, but it still won't light the light up! I have power (ask my fingers). I can't get to the wires as they are between the floor and ceiling imbedded in insulation. I guess i'll hafta go get new 3-way switches and try that. on the old switch, 2 wires hooked up on one side, and the other side had one hookup. since I only had a normal switch, I put a wire nut and tape on the end of the one wire. everytime the old lady....oooops....I mean the loving wife wants to change something....it turns to CHIT!   
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shameless dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2017 at 5:59pm
I replaced one switch with a new 3 way switch, on one wall there are 2 black wires, and one white wire, on the other wall there are 2 black wires and a red wire! I hooked the odd wire (red one and white one) on the single side of the switches, and put the 2 black wires on the same side of the switch. since I took both switches off they were the regular ones, so not sure where that 3rd wire (black) should go?
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shameless dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 12:39am
.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 6:00am
LED bulbs designed for AC (aka Household)  use are NOT 'polarity' sensitive !! AC means Alternating Current, goes + and - 120 volts, 60 times a second on our side of the pond.
LED bulbs consist of Light Emitting Diodes( give them power  and they glow) as well as  some 'electronics' to convert 120 volts AC into the DC power the LEDs need. White LEDs run on about 2.3 volts DC, so the 'electronics' has to change the AC into DC as well as limit voltage and current. Too much cuurent and you'll get a very,very bright LED for a millisecond of too, then it's off to the landfill !

Now LED bulbs for cars,trucks, tractors and LOW VOLTAGE off-grid use ARE 'generally' polarity sensitive. These units are marked 12 volts DC, one wire is +ve, the other -ve. If you hook the cheap ones up 'backwards', flash,poof, landfill. The better ones are 'reverse polarity protected' so they don't light up but they don't fail either. The GOOD ones are actually NOT plarity sensitive and will work no matter how you wire them up. Inside them is a 5 cent bridge recitfier that 'magically' allows them to function.

Jay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 6:46am
Originally posted by shameless dude shameless dude wrote:

I looked at all my new switches I already gots, and only find the ones for normal use, not 3-way. I did hook up one of those, but it still won't light the light up! I have power (ask my fingers). I can't get to the wires as they are between the floor and ceiling imbedded in insulation. I guess i'll hafta go get new 3-way switches and try that. on the old switch, 2 wires hooked up on one side, and the other side had one hookup. since I only had a normal switch, I put a wire nut and tape on the end of the one wire. everytime the old lady....oooops....I mean the loving wife wants to change something....it turns to CHIT!   
 
"I put a wire nut and tape on the end of the one wire." ....It sounds like you've got things totally confuzzled.  You need a meter, know how to use it, or find someone that does. 
 
Your first post, you say you had a switch at each end of the kitchen, so those were 3 way.  Now you're trying to hook up a 2 way to check things out and say it won't turn it on either.  When you turned the experimental 2 way on, did you leave it on and go switch the other one?  Might have worked.....depending how screwed up things are.


Edited by Tbone95 - 04 Oct 2017 at 6:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stan IL&TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 7:41am
Google 3 way switch wiring and you will get lots of pictures of how to connect them switches.
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shameless dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 9:56am
yes....I tried both switches every time I put one in. I now have 2 new 3 way switches, so far....nuthin! PffffT! guess i'll pull the light fixture back down, make sure a wire didn't slip out of the wire nut while putting it on!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 10:04am
o-k....if I unhook all the wires and temp hook up wires to each switch then try it before remounting them back in the wall, it should light up the light? right? or do both switches have to be hooked up? I have the google on next door right now
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 10:05am
You tried both switches, but did you turn your new 2 way on, leave it on, then try the other?  Sounds like you've got things befuddled beyond that though.
 
No pictures.  No sketches.  No mentions of the use of a meter.  We want to help, but it's very hard in this case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 10:20am
can I block off one switch as we never use the one, and just hook up one switch to use? goggle doesn't tell me about this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 10:34am
Originally posted by shameless dude shameless dude wrote:

o-k....if I unhook all the wires and temp hook up wires to each switch then try it before remounting them back in the wall, it should light up the light? right? or do both switches have to be hooked up? I have the google on next door right now
This would not have worked.
 
If you had 3 ways switches, and you were switching "hot" like you're supposed to, then the hot wire has a break (each switch) in 2 places.  So if you leave one unhooked and put a test switch in the other, you will be leaving the hot side of the circuit open.  If you followed the flow of each wire, the hot will go from the box, to a switch, to the other switch, to the light.  If you figure out which wire goes from switch to switch, un hook it, and put a 2 way from the one you want to use to the light, yes it will work.
 
It works electrically to switch neutral, but ya' ain't supposed to do it that way.  This is why you should be using a meter, because even though wires are supposed to be a certain color, you can't always rely on that!
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 10:56am
what kind of meter?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 11:09am
Oh man, that's like asking someone what kind of beer to drink or whether you should notill or not.
 
There's 100's of them.  But something more informative than a test light, where you can check resistance / continuity, current, actual voltage level rather than just there or not there. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 11:15am
If you had even a test light, you could find what 2 wires give you voltage to the switch, verify when you turn the switch on that you get voltage out, then with the old la....loving wife managing the switching, you could take the new fixture down and see what wires get hot when the switch is turned on.  Heck, the new fixture might be bad in some way, I've seen it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hubert (Ga)engine7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 11:16am
A cheap meter from Harbor Freight will work for what you are doing. I get them for free. You can also get a non contact test light from Lowe's, HD, etc. I keep one in my tool pouch and use it all the time on building wiring, has saved me from getting shocked lots of times.
Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 11:19am
I just found one diagram on line, and I think it'll work, I know when looking at that diagram I do have some wires switched....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hubert (Ga)engine7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 4:27pm
If you don't want to spend the $ on a meter or a test light just lick your index finger and quickly touch the wire, if you are grounded good you will know if it is hot. LOL

BTW the Ideal brand test light is one of the better ones.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave in PA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 4:40pm
Like above said, testing meters, are your best friend in this situation.  Locate the wires, where they come from, and go, then look at the pictures to help out.  I learned to do electric in a way of water, it flows this way, then flows this way, like running down a pipe!
Works for me, and I can do most all with that knowledge!  First thing in electric to do, is find the POWER SUPPLY, what line is carrying the power to the box from the panel!!!!!  Then go from there.
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