What is the tensile strength of a mouse nest?
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55528
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Topic: What is the tensile strength of a mouse nest?
Posted By: Dozer
Subject: What is the tensile strength of a mouse nest?
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 7:43pm
| I have been trying to get the steering clutches out of my HD6G. Mice have been living in the clutch compartment. It has been extremely dificult to move the clutch pack into the drum because the mouse stuff has it rusted pretty bad. I now have 3/16 total clearence. I tried tightening the clutch adjustment and using the throwout bearing to get more clearence but it feels like I'm bending the linkage. I was able to get a saw blade between the brake drum and the output hub. This cavity is full of mouse nest that I can not remove. I can easily lift the drum assembly up about an inch but no more. I figured a mouse nest isn't that strong. Any suggestions? |
Replies:
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 8:20pm
Mouse pee on any metal seems to make a good weld joint. I never had a nest that couldn't be pulled, blown or burned out of the way Might need to soak things in your fav penetrating oil for a while.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 8:21pm
Mouse must be a holdin onta t'other side!!
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Posted By: dadsdozerhd5b
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 8:49pm
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the clutch pack must be slid into the drum to come out. you are being held up by the four fingers that push on the clutch pack from the throwout bearing that disengage the clutch. keep trying to work the pack into the drum. the clutch discs will be toast as they are stuck to the drum teeth from the mouse pee. common problem, i had one that i had to cut the drum apart to get it out. sorry, it will be tough to save it. you may be able to push the pack into the drum with a portapower but be sure to keep the drum bolted up as to not bend the flange. i have some parts if you need them. good luck ------------- HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE. |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2012 at 12:35am
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There is a lip on the flange that you need to get by . Wrap a choker around the clutch drum and apply upward pull while using a couple wedges to force discs into drum Rust on the plates will grow and swell . ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: Dozer
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2012 at 6:26am
| Thanks all. I think I have enough gap to clear the lip on both hubs. I don't think I would have been able to get the one inch lift otherwise. I have backed off the yoke but I will double check the throwout bearing fingers. One mistake I made was to fill the compartment with solvent before using the shopvac to remove the fluffy stuff. I considered cutting the drum but I thought cutting the output hub would be less metal to remove. Is there a thin area of the brake drum near the pressure plate? |
Posted By: dadsdozerhd5b
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2012 at 5:36pm
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what i did when i needed to was use a grinder or chop saw and go around half of the drum on the outboard side about a half to 3/4 inch in and then cut about 3 slices across the drum and used a bar to break them out. once you get half way around or so, it will give in and move together and allow enough room to get it out. if you cut the drive flange, you may not be able to get the puller on to pull the hub off. remove the pin for the steering clutch rod to allow the throwout bearing to release fully and it may give you more space. ------------- HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE. |
Posted By: Dozer
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2012 at 1:23pm
I have a bad throwout bearing. The yoke was movong but the throwout sleeve was not. I was able to force a thin screwdriver between the input hub and the throwout sleeve thereby retracting the throwout sleeve. Note the mouse nest in the center of the steering clutch. Thanks to all |
Posted By: dadsdozerhd5b
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2012 at 7:16pm
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looks like the clutch is slid all the way in. you might get away with disassembling the clutch pack, clean the discs up and reassemble. nice lifting sling also. ------------- HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE. |
Posted By: Dozer
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2012 at 5:17am
The lifting sling uses 3/32 aircraft cable to support the clutch. The 1/2-13 bolts allow it to be adjusted for depth in the clutch cavity. The fixture is wide enough to sit on the cavity opening. Two 3/8-16 bolts set the depth and keep the clutch from slipping sidewise. For you people that notice detail. There are 2 cables in this picture. I added a 3rd cable because I was pulling quite hard in the previous picture. I also removed the depth stop bolts in this picture. I'm looking to buy the entire clutch pack and drum. If anybody has extra good parts send a pm with your price. I have never seen a clutch pack that was messed up so bad. |
Posted By: dadsdozerhd5b
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2012 at 5:45pm
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i do not have a complete assembly and only have seen the clutch discs for sale. if you can afford it, put the ceramic discs in instead of the fiber discs and they will not freeze together again. some have said minnparr is good for parts. i have no direct experience. let us know where you find the new parts you are looking for. good luck ------------- HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE. |
Posted By: Dozer
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2012 at 3:36pm
| I was able to get the steering clutch assembly appart by pounding an 18mm socket on to the 3/4 hex of the 1/2-13 bolts and using a slide hammer to remove the drum. I only broke one bolt. If I can afford it I should replace everything. The drum is cracked ( I will try to weld it )and 5 of the springs are broken in multiple places. I have been unable to find a complete assembly for sale. Let me know of anyone that might have an assembly. At minimum I will need all the steels and frictions and 8 springs. HELP !!!! |
Posted By: dadsdozerhd5b
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2012 at 8:28pm
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if you want new, general gear lists all the parts new except the drum. i recommend if you can afford it to put the bimetallic discs in as they do not stick as bad. i have a drum, in fair shape, it will need to be bead blasted to remove all rust. it is pitted from rust but is useable. i have used springs and center plate, all useable but rusty. let me know if you are interested. you may try hector gemme on this site also, as he has alot of allis crawler parts. ------------- HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE. |
Posted By: Dozer
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 6:43am
| The mice that damaged the steering clutch entered by chewing thru the rubber boots on the brake band operating rod. I hope my solution to this problem works. I made 2.125 diameter washers with 0.562 hole from the top of a 5 gallon plastic pail. I used a hole saw to make the disks then I drilled and turned them to size. The 2 1/8 diameter is larger than the hole for the brake band rod so the washer will stay out of the clutch cavity. The washer is slit to get it on the brake rod and I made it slightly "D" shaped for clearence. It is held in place using foam water pipe insolation and a hose clamp. Hope it keeps those pesty mice out of my steering clutches. |
Posted By: dadsdozerhd5b
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 8:03pm
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good idea dozer but i think the mice will be able to chew through the plastic. i had an idea similiar but to use a wire brush to keep them out. i was going to use the wire brush you find in the copper pipe cleaning brush, the kind with 1/2 and 3/4 brushes together. they have brushes for the fitting and pipe all in one tool. i was going to use the 1/2" brush, slip it on the rod and then put a spring on to hold it tight against the housing. somehow the mice i run into have awesome teeth and can chew through just about anything. i am going to keep mint spray around and spray it whenever i am through with the machine as i hear mice cannot stand mint. trying it in my basement now. whatever works right? my dozer has mice in one of the clutches now i think. i just got the axle shaft changed and now this. ------------- HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE. |
Posted By: Dozer
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 6:39am
| We use mouse bait near our fruit trees because we have what they call "VOLES" that band the trees and kills the tree. I thought of using that but it draws the voles so there is a lot of debris by the dead voles. I know The drain plugs are supposed to remain out unless the machine is operating in water but I will be using the 3/4 pipe plugs with a small amount of diesel fuel in the clutch compartment to make it less hospitable for the mice or voles whatever they are. |
Posted By: dadsdozerhd5b
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 5:48pm
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i also am going to put a plug in the drain holes in the bottom but i am going to drill a small hole in them and put a cotter pin in it. the cotter pin moving around will keep the hole open but the hole will be closed enough to not let any mice in. i am fed up with mice this year between getting into my clutches, they have moved into my parts trailer and my basement. maybe cats are not so bad after all! ------------- HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE. |
Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2012 at 5:53am
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Dadsdozer
If you don't like cats ask for help from a mini-fox terrier. Magic dogs and size just isn't in their dictionary
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Posted By: ratchet
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2012 at 11:23am
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Dozer: The brass caps in the pic on the hydralic resovoir, Where did you find them? They would be a good addition to the growing specialty tools for these ol girls. Thanks ------------- 1956 HD6G , 1958 HD6G , 1963 HD6G,massey harris 20,case 995,huber,jd 350 , 1956 onan generator,poppin jonny ,massey ferguson, internatinal backhoe, i work on anything and everything its an addiction!! |
Posted By: Dozer
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2012 at 5:23pm
| They are steel these particular ones have plateing that looks like brass. 8 pieces each of 3/4 JIC tubing caps and plugs are needed to do steering clutches. Discounthydraulic.com/ Order online and get 5% off catalog prices. I never put credit card on the internet. I fill out the order choose "NONE" for payment method, then I telephone with the card number. Part number 304C-12 for the cap and 2408-12 for the plug. The same fittings work on the hydraulic cylinders. |
Posted By: dadsdozerhd5b
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2012 at 8:28pm
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you can find the caps and plugs at any hydraulic hose store or even tractor supply should have them. they are jic fitting caps and plugs ------------- HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE. |
Posted By: ratchet
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2012 at 1:00pm
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3/4 JIC fittings Got it. Thanks ------------- 1956 HD6G , 1958 HD6G , 1963 HD6G,massey harris 20,case 995,huber,jd 350 , 1956 onan generator,poppin jonny ,massey ferguson, internatinal backhoe, i work on anything and everything its an addiction!! |