Welding Rod
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55493
Printed Date: 26 Apr 2025 at 8:02am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Welding Rod
Posted By: Ted J
Subject: Welding Rod
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 8:01am
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Hi Guys, I am wondering what you consider the best all around welding rod for farm use. What is everyone using?
------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
Replies:
Posted By: AC200Puller
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 8:04am
| The miller wire feed welder. |
Posted By: Teddy (punchie)
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 8:05am
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I don't stick weld too much but I do use 6010; 3/32, and 1/8. Almost always use the MIG. Can weld tin cans to heavy steel.
------------- Ac D-19, a Number of WD's, One WD45, Two 444 balers, Ac plows and etc. |
Posted By: d17brown
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 8:10am
| use mig at home and stick at work i use 6011 can weld any direction but does not chip well |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 8:11am
I have "tons" of stuff they guys were throwing away at work one day. 6011 or 6013 seems to be real handy for burning thru crud so things stick together
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Dave A
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 8:27am
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for ductal Iron 6011 0r 6013. If the area is clean 7018 ------------- Play the game for more than you can afford to lose... only then will you learn the game. Winston Churchill |
Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 8:28am
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I like 7014 3/32" & 1/8". And I do notice a difference from one make to another. Dusty ------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
Posted By: Dave in il
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 8:34am
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I usually use 6013, the kids use 6011 and complain that I don't have a wire welder like they learned on in school. I just tell them my Lincoln buzz box is what I learned on in school and one of them can buy a new welder. LOL ------------- AGCO My Allis Gleaner Company |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 8:45am
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Ted. it depends on what type machine you havae. If you have a AC buzz box, then probably 6011 or 6013 is your choice. AS the guys said, it dont look like much and has sl*g left over that is hard to chip. On the plus side, it does burn thru some of the rust and crud on old parts.
If you have an AC- DC box, set it on DC and use 7018 rod. This is a great rod for almost everything. You have to keep the flux dry by keeping rod in a a box with a light bulb or heater, etc. The flux will normally peel up and chip off easy. Takes very little grinding to make it look great. Metal has to be ground clean or wire brushed first real good. No paint or crap in the wled area. I use 7018 when ever i do heavy welding with a stick. Use a small wire feed for metals under 1/8 inch. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: JoeO(CMO)
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 8:46am
LOL. I learned on some pretty large stick welders, the one I liked most was a crank up Hobart, boy it welded good after it warmed up. We had a Lincoln plug in on the farm. I now have a Miller crank up and Miller wire feed and I also agree with your decision to let them buy what they would like to use, that way you will have access to the latest. My next step is a Plazma cutter. ------------- |
Dave in il wrote:Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 8:57am
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I use a Lincoln (6011) and use gas for brazing. I learned to braze real well with MAPP. I got the MAPP rather than Acetylene because of cutting with it. It is faster I think. A typical DIY'er, I learned on my own. I have never used a wire feed as yet. Maybe one of these days... You're never too old to learn...
------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 9:48am
| I only buy 7018 stick at my factory. I do keep a few sticks nickle rod on the welder. I have an assortment tool steel rod for TIG welding. Mostly tig with mild steel rod though. Mostly wire feed at home which is mild steel. For any particular welds at home I load it up and take it to the factory |
Posted By: mdm1
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 10:24am
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Ted as you I taught myself (glad I don't get evaluated). I use 7018ac at home because I only have a ac welder. I have a small wire feed that works ok for small stuff. At the cabin I use 6011 or 6013 on a small welder because I have those rods. Hey if you ever want to take a class let me know. Mike ------------- Everything is impossible until someone does it! WD45-trip loader 1947 c w/woods belly mower, 1939 B, #3 sickle mower 1944 B, 2 1948 G's. Misc other equipment that my wife calls JUNK! |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 10:47am
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The short answer: Yes. Have an assortment of 60xx and 70xx rods, and KEEP THE BOX LABELS INTACT. They tell you what they're intended for: The first two numbers of rod type (60xx, 70xx) identify the tensile strength of the rod material... so 60xx is softer than 70xx. The second from right identifes position and the last identifies polarity: Position: 1: all position 2: Flat and Horizontal 3: Flat ONLY 4: Vertical DOWN ONLY Trying to use a 6023 rod going in a vertical direction, or horizontally along a seam, yields sl*g and snot. Using a 6043 rod on flat, results in a weld that looks like boogers. Using a 6011 isn't half bad on all of 'em. A 7013 works well too... they're both all-position rods. If you're trying to weld something that simply cannot be placed in a flat position, then pick a specialty rod with a more appropriate number in the 2nd-from-left digit, and you'll find it welds much nicer. It is for this reason, that the most commonly used welding rods are 6011, 6013, 6014, 7013, 7014, and 7018... they all have 1's for 'all position' use... general purpose. Polarity: Far right digit: Rod types ending in 0 and 5, are DC Electrode Positive ONLY. Types ending in 1,2,3,4,6 and 7 can be used on AC. Types 1,5,6, and 8 can be used in DC Electrode Positive Types 2 and 7 can be used in DC Electrode Negative. The physical difference in using DC Electrode Positive, vs. Electrode Negative: Electrode Positive tends to direct arc heat into the WORKPIECE. Heats workpiece faster, slows erosion of the electrode, and less metal deposition. Electrode Negative tends to direct arc heat into the ELECTRODE. Heats rod faster, results in lower penetration, and faster metal deposition. When using an AC welder, arc heat will be essentially equal in both directions. There are times when you'll need the properties of one rod over another- part of welding is looking at what you've got, and selecting the appropriate tool for the job, so I recommend having an AC/DC welder and a variety of rods on-hand. I also recommend that when doing 'practice' welding, use the worst combination of factors... wet rods, high tensile strength, wrong position, and improper welder settings. If you can strike, hold, and control the rod under the worst factors, you'll be very good at controlling it under the best. Next: MIG welders... they're extremely handy, I have many. They're very nice, extremely handy, and do a fine job. They don't, however, afford the immediate flexibility of an AC-DC stick welder and an old fridge full of every type of rod known-to-exist... with the AC/DC stick, you can go from welding rusty crud, to fresh metal, to hardfacing in just one knob and rod selection. With a MIG, you need to change spools, sometimes liners... tips, or guns. This is why I have several MIGs. Furthermore, if you've learned on a STICK welder, you can do some pretty incredible things... like... welding the inside of a tube or fixture that's a foot down inside the tube where your HANDS can't even go... or zap together a busted JEEP frame with a pair of car batteries, some Vise-Grips, and a coathanger... Of course, once you've learned to stick, learning to MIG takes very little transition time... just a little different in setting things up, and learning to use your ear to get the feedrate, voltage, and gas flow rates adjusted right for the given conditions. And then, you'd hafta learn to TIG, because... there's things you can TIG, that you can't MIG or STICK... it's like gas-torch welding, but without the flame... Did I mention that I have lots of welders? No, I don't have an overflowing pocketbook... most of my welders are old 3-phase industrial machines that I've converted to single-phase. My favorites, are the Miller CP200 and CP300 MIG machines, and the Miller SRH-333 DC Stick/TIG supply... they were dirt-cheap, and it took me some time to figure out how to make them play ball at full output, but the learning-curve has been beaten, and well worth it... but I still have the old AC Lincoln 225 that my grandfather gave me... and a couple of portable DC and AC/DC stick welders (engine driven). If anyone would like to see how I did the 3-phase to single-phase conversion, I've posted it on other forums, and even made a step-by-step conversion doc for the CP-200 MIG on my buddy's FTP server at : http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/docs/misc/CP-200_Single-Phase_Step-By-Step.pdf WELD ON! |
Posted By: Dipstick In
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 10:49am
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7014 Works great on mild steel and doesn't crystalize with harder steel. ------------- You don't really have to be smart if you know who is! |
Posted By: Warren(Oh)
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 11:16am
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A lot of good info there, Dave, thanks, I needed that ! Printed and saved file.
I got a cheap wire feed, no gas, welder a couple years ago. It's done very good to learn on, now does good fast !
I bought an AC welder less than a year ago, 6011 done good, couldn't strike an arc with any other rod if my life depended on it. Bought a cheap Jap DC welder and liked it very well, for less than 30 minutes of welding then it fried. Bought another from Lowes and it's very nice. Digital power readout, 20 to 200amp output, 220 in. Just used it this morning to weld galvanized sheet metal. Yeah, not real pretty but it's together. 50 amp with a 6011 rod. Barely burned to end off the rod but it's stuck.
(Built a tool to clean out around these head bolts, aggrevating da$#ed things!!)
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Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 12:00pm
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WOW Dave! Thanks for all the great info! I too have it saved now for future use! Ted ------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
Posted By: Teddy (punchie)
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 9:11pm
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yes Dave cover a huge amount of ground. Well here I thought Ted J just was asking about basic welding rod. There are countless rods. Some that are common have been listed. the 6010, 6011, 6013 should weld most steel and through some dirt and rust. Now there are Nickel mix and stainless rods for weld cast. Like was stated 7018 and even 8018, 10018 but for these they must be dry to work well plus clean steel. Then look at hardening rods for working hardness, like plows and backhoe buckets. Ted J good welding can be hard for some most don't care to learn to do it right. Maybe it is a art. Any way with a good Oxygen / Acetylene there is not too much you can't weld if you have the right rod. I would start slow and see how good you are, if things work out and you like what you see, then go into it more. Like MIG and TIG. MIG you have different cover Gases you can use and things on some jobs need to be very clean. Me and my older Lincoln SP150 for what I'm welding is all I need. I have welded tin cans just to do it, Up to tractor hitches etc. Can and have welded rusty steel. No braze or brass, copper MIGS hate them, so do most welders. Cover gas is 75 % CO2, and 25 % argon. Most use CO2 for steel. Now stainless MIG welding is a different game, holds heat where it is, runny funny stuff. Take A Good MIG to run Stainless Wire, we got by with 75/25 but we where going to try a 65% co2, 25% argon and I think 10% helium, but never had to weld it again, boy let just say once was enough, just rough and sputter and spit every where. Look okay for the radiator test tank , but after some 20' of welding seams and up and down it was enough. Stainless stick is not so bad, and would say it is easy. But this was about 20' and was a 16 ga. metal just too thin for the rod a a good friend had just bought a 50 pound roll of MIG wire. Aluminum here is a heat sucker, MUST BE CLEAN and TIG is the way to go. MIG is good for most but my machine is too small at 150Amps would have to get a different wire feed and change out the rolls. For Me I would just Ox/act weld for what I would have to do. Copper is the hard one takes a good welder and allot of time to learn. I have never try this, only know a few that do it. Different things are better to weld with different types of welding types ( Gas,MIG,TIG), then get into Amps , polarity, then cover gas. It gets very very mixed up, all it what you can or like to do. A Huge amount to learn a some you only use it once in a life time, unless your in a weld shop or big mill. Have Fun !! Teddy ------------- Ac D-19, a Number of WD's, One WD45, Two 444 balers, Ac plows and etc. |
Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 10:33pm
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Teddy, I use Oxy / MAPP for gas welding / cutting. I have done silver solder, but am not real good at it. I'd like to get a MIG or TIG welder, but then I would have to learn and that means buying more steel. Its getting too expensive to just play around. Was just wondering about it. Ted ------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
Posted By: stolfarms
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 10:43pm
| 7018 is what i prefer to use because if you know how to use it it will hold on any thing this last year the king pin on our traveler broke and i used 7018 on it and it hasnt shown any weekness. but what really matters is what you are used to welding with getting the metal prepared correctly and setting the welding right |
Posted By: 7060
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 11:15pm
| My welding instructor always told me that 6011 was made for farmers that want to stick 2 rusty pieces of metal together. Ive always used 7018. Like any stick welder you have to have practice, but with a mig about anyone can pick it up and go. I have both and find myself using the mig more and more because its faster, but when It comes to heavy stuff I use a DC stick. Preparation is the key to a weld job lasting. And 6010 was designed as a pipe rod, and it throws the fireworks. |
Posted By: Unit3
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2012 at 6:45am
| La Grange rod. 25 years ago there was a blue colored welding rod called La Grange. It was far and away better then anything else. As you were running a bead, the sl*g would lift and curl up behind your rod. You would brush your glover over the weld and all of the sl*g would fall off. AC200Puller said it best. A Millermatic 250X lives in our shop. It made a welder out of me. I love my Miller Blue, but I always miss the blue La Grange rod. |
Posted By: Dave in il
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2012 at 7:08am
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This is another example of why I love this site. This thread will get printed out and kept for future reference. ------------- AGCO My Allis Gleaner Company |
Posted By: 7060
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2012 at 5:48pm
| Not to step on any toes, but the sl*g will curl up behind the weld with 7018 too if the welders set right. I can weld all day vertical and never use a chipping hammer. |
Posted By: wbecker
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2012 at 6:14pm
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If I could only have 1 type rod, it would be 7014.
Bill B ------------- Allis B, IB, Low B, G, D10, JD M, 8KCAB, C152 |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2012 at 7:22pm
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One thing that EVERYONE that's had success in LEARNING welding technique will agree: Preparation is everything. And the other thing: Preparation. Did I mention cleaning the metal good, fitting it up tight, having a proper chamfer, and then selecting the right rod, getting the right heat range and polarity, and then tacking it, correcting alignment for shrink, then tacking it... then cleaning up the tacked surface again (sl*g and spatter), then doing the finish weld, maintaining a proper stick angle (lead), arc gap, and progression speed? And then there's preparation... The stick welder is one of the most difficult concepts for the learning welder to overcome... but once that initial learning-curve has been overcome, basic technique and basic knowledge, coupled with just a little practice, and perhaps some sage eyes looking through a second shield, will turn the grasshopper into a weld-warrior. Cool thing about stick welding, is that once you've learned the basic technique, it can be used to do such a wide variety of things... different materials, positions, and situations- it's basically only limited by your imaginantion. My recommendation for anyone who's planning on doing welding on their own stuff, is to go with a good used industrial welding machine, and save all the other cash for getting good protective equipment (shield, gloves, apron), good accessories (electrode holders, ground clamps, stout welding cables), a refrigerator-full of various rod sizes and types, and also cutting and grinding tools (a 4" grinder with cutting wheels, grinding wheels, wire brushes, and flapper-wheels, and a 6 or 8" grinder for working heavy stuff fast... and a good basic oxy-acetylene cutting setup. I have friends that have spent $2500 on a new welder... while my investment was under $400 for a superior machine... and that left me with $1000 for related supplies, and another $1100 for tractor parts... |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2012 at 6:27am
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Everything carbon steel in union pipe fitter land gets a root pass with a 60-10 and gets a hot pass and cover pass with 70-18 unless a backing ring or the root is required to be tigged in. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: 7060
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2012 at 1:07pm
| I used to have to weld practice V plates in welding school with 6010 5p+ root and 7018 on out. I was always taught to make 6010 look like a row of dimes laid over. I dont see how 6010 would be practical for farm use though. |
Posted By: MikeinLcoMo
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2012 at 1:21pm
| All I know is you had better scrape off all that plastic coating and paint on those coat hangers, phew!!! |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2012 at 12:15pm
| Yeah. Last time I had to do it, I shorted the coathanger enough to red-hot it, then dragged it through the sand under a buddy's boot... did a pretty good job of cleaning it off. We sacrificed a piece of tubing from his hydraulic jack handle to slip inside a ripped-apart tie-rod, and then ratchet-strapped the wheels together to suck it in close enough to zap back together on the trail. It wasn't pretty, but it got him patched up just well enough to creep back to camp. |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2012 at 12:33pm
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6010-5P is a DC rev polarity rod and a root pass rod . 6013 is a mild steel all position and general purpose weld but has a heavy flux cover after welding with medium to low penetration , not real good on dirty or old metal with rust. 6011 will give a deeper penetration with less amps needs and a weld easily cleaned for multi-pass welding, less prep and some dirty or rusty metal can be joined . 7014 is not a true low hydrogen rod but gives a weld much like 6013 with higher tinsel strength 7024 is a drag rod with heavy flux coating for flat work where arc is maintained with flux in contact with work so no gap is needed to be maintained by the welder. Cosmetic good looking weld with low penetration 7018-AC or 7018 is preferred by many as it has a flux that is easily removed and gives a sound high strength weld and has a good appearance visually. A clean work surface is needed Welding is practice, practice, practice. good prep and proper heat ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2012 at 2:14pm
You probably learned that from the TV show, what was it, MacGyver? Yea, the electrode fell off the plug so he welds a piece of nail on it with 12 g wire. [TUBE]PqXkjYcHmY0[/TUBE] ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 7:44am
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Been working alot finally got a paid day of rest. The only time a ac machine and rod out performs a dc machine and rod is when the carbon steel has become magnetized. Dc always makea better pretty welds until that happens.es 70 mig wire is as close to a 70-18 rod as you can get. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 10:15pm
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I am stunned!! The WEALTH of knowledge on this forum is simply amazing! I got more than I asked for and I learned a LOT! THANKS Allis family!
------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
Posted By: Rawleigh
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 10:25am
| 6011 root pass followed by 7018 here. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 11:57am
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6011 is great for leaving sl*g in the middle of the weld bead. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |