History of Ford and Deere
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24170
Printed Date: 23 May 2024 at 12:48pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: History of Ford and Deere
Posted By: Gerald J.
Subject: History of Ford and Deere
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2011 at 11:07am
From the engineer that was in charge, on IPTV.
http://www.iptv.org/mtom/story.cfm/feature/626 - http://www.iptv.org/mtom/story.cfm/feature/626
From 9N to 4020.
Gerald J.
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Replies:
Posted By: TEDMI
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2011 at 12:08pm
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Thanks Gerald for posting that , the 9N ford was my first tractor .
Ted.
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Posted By: Dave in il
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2011 at 12:11pm
Posted By: Hurst
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2011 at 12:33pm
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Really neat video. Really incredible the things he did.
Hurst
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1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
5800 Hours
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Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2011 at 10:47pm
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Nice. Thanks for posting.
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Posted By: denwic
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2011 at 11:23pm
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A man with a lot of COMMON sense...something you can't learn at any school or college...and in short supply in the U.S.
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Posted By: Reeseholler
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2011 at 11:43pm
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Very cool. New piece of information to tuck away. Everytime I see tractors lined up outside the factory, I want to be there walking through them. Just to see that many new tractors at once.
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Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2011 at 12:04am
Great story. What changes he saw and helped make in those 96 years, from steel wheeled steam tractors to computer controlled machines nearly as big but so much more powerful.
I'd read that he wouldn't sign off on the Select O Speed at Ford so the sales guys waited until he went on vacation before releasing it - big mistake, but he got fired for it, they probably promoted the sales guy. Hey doesn't that sound familiar?
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"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
Allis Express participant
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Posted By: NICKMI
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2011 at 6:49am
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The world just lost a great american a real mechanical genuis
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Posted By: David(Stockbridge)MI
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2011 at 7:12am
I agree with deniswc, Common sence was in short supply, degrees were a dime a dozen in the Fored research center in Dearborn where I worked for 30 years. Never met Mr Brock but was luckey to work with about 6 fellows over the years that I would rank with edison,Ford and the likes.
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All "NEW" Web Site http://www.djstractorparts.com
2035,A,U,UC,WF unstyled,WF styled,WC High Crop (cane),RC,B,IB,C,CA,WD,WD45,G,D10,D12,D14,D15,D15 II,D17,D19,WC styled,WC unstyled H3 crawler
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Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2011 at 8:21am
There was a guy on one of those Farm Ag shows that was a mechanical genius. Never went to school though and he made his own equipment and such. Common Sense can take you far.
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Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2011 at 9:55am
Charlie, That was Market to Market and the guys name was Harold Brock.
See my post from Friday. http://www.allischalmers.com/new/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24083&KW=brock&PID=181921&title=harold-brock-services-satuday#181921 - http://www.allischalmers.com/new/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24083&KW=brock&PID=181921&title=harold-brock-services-satuday#181921
John, he told the people in charge, the transmission needed more work before he would release it. They insisted on releasing it so they fired him and all his staff and hired somebody that would sign off on it.
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http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2011 at 10:11am
Harold Brock, Waterloo, Iowa: I was holding it up, wouldn’t approve it
and finally they came to me and said, we want to put it in production
and I said, well, you better get yourself a new chief engineer and they
did. When I went to Deere a new generation of tractors, they said well
Ford is going to come out with a power shift transmission and we won’t
have one on our tractor. I said, well don’t worry about it, it won’t
work and so I said, we’ll design a power shift transmission that really
works.”
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http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2011 at 11:10am
Of course JD did buy the rights to the SOS transmission, easier and probably cheaper then fighting it out in court. I always wonder why they didn't have more speeds, at least 10 or maybe 12.
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"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
Allis Express participant
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Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2011 at 1:56pm
What I read from Brock was that the SOS concept wasn't bad just that it wasn't built strong enough to be reliable. So at Deere, he made sure the PS was strong enough. Best I can tell, both of the Deere new generation transmission were tough and long lived, but the PS broke less often. A neighbor farmed with PS tractors from about 1970 to about 2002, and never broke one. I know the SR is easly destroyed if you tow one with it not in the TOW shifter position. The top shaft spins fast without lubrication and gets welded into a lump. Both transmissions are compact with 8 forward and 2 or 3 reverse in a package many makers used for one of two transmissions.
8 forward was a lot more than the previous tractors of 3 or 4 forward and 1 reverse. The earliest 4010 had 3 reverse, but the third reverse was fast and easily broken if loaded too much. The transmission through the end of 4020 SR actually had 8 forward and 4 reverse, but the '20 locked out the two faster reverse gears in the shift linkage because the gears couldn't handle the load and 20 mph in reverse might not be safe or all that useful.
I didn't find while farming row crops that I lacked available gears in the 4020, nor in my 1968 MF-135 with 12 speeds forward except maybe a real crawler gear about 1/2 mph at PTO engine speed. Both tractors had gear pairs that could be shifted while moving, so it was quite practical to start a load on the road and then at about 16 mph, shift to the top gear to get on up to 22 mph. Though one trip to the elevator with 30,000 pounds of corn and wagons behind the 4020 I could only get it up to 16 mph. I didn't repeat that trip with that much load.
Gerald J.
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Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2011 at 1:57pm
Later PS transmission did have more speeds, up to the current 22 or 24 along side the continuously variable IVT.
Gerald J.
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Posted By: Rfdeere
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2011 at 4:34pm
Gerald, I will have to disagree. I've ran several 4020 Deeres for different farmers and the only one that was a powershift had a permanantly mounted hyd. post pounder. Everybody said the powershift could not handle tillage work. That included two longtime Deere service managers.
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Randy Freshour,Member Indiana AC Partners,
http://www.rumelyallis.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.rumelyallis.com
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Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2011 at 6:59pm
For 35 years, my neighbor plowed, disk, field cultivated, planted, and cultivated about 400 acres of corn and beans. All with PS tractors, never broke one.
One thing about the PS was that it didn't get as much power to the ground as SR with the same engine because of the hydraulic load.
Gerald J.
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2011 at 8:12pm
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The guys I went to mechanics school with that were and some still are Deere mechanics have all told me that the PS transmission on the 20 series wasn't as reliable as the SR and would grenade once in a while when used in heavy tillage. 8 speeds just isn't enough for a big tractor built in the 1970s to me.
Ever set an Allis Chalmers PS next to a 30 or 40 series Deere on a bench? I have. No comparison. The Allis is way heavier built.
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