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D12 Series 1 "live" power?

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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23622
Printed Date: 11 Jun 2024 at 8:28pm
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Topic: D12 Series 1 "live" power?

Posted By: Steve79
Subject: D12 Series 1 "live" power?
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2011 at 4:31pm

Hello everyone, first off this is a great forum. I’ve looked at several tractor forums and sights online and this is the best I’ve seen hands down. Which is great because I also like AC tractors. My grandpa used them and my father in law still does. My family thinks I’m strange (or worse) for liking tractors without a use for one but what the heck.

We just bought a house outside town so I want a small tractor, it will be used for finish mowing my 3 acre yard… that’s my justification to the wife. It's really more of an expensive toy though. I decided a D10/12 series 3 would be perfect, it’s small, lightweight, has good features for any future needs, has the power director, looks good. I would use it for mowing 3 acres, plowing a garden, plowing snow, grading a gravel driveway, running an emergency generator.

Unfortunately the D10/12 is an expensive and hard to find machine. I ran across a real nice all original D12 series 3 with AC trip bucket for $5K but passed on it. I just ran across an early 1960 D12 series 1 with the small 138in^3 motor. It has a trip bucket and no power director so I have a few questions about it that I didn’t find definitive answers to when searching the forum.

1. Assuming the hydraulics are not “live” how would they work? I read here they only became live late in series 1. As I understand it if I wanted to lift some gravel for example I would have to:

-put in neutral, let the clutch out then position the bucket (Assuming I can’t position it on the move)

-put in gear and drive into the pile

-put in neutral, let the clutch out and position the bucket to drive

-put in gear and drive off

Is that correct?

2. For mowing without the power director as I understand it the blades would stop whenever I push in the clutch. And I should get the overrunning PTO for safety. Would a CA be a better mowing machine? It would be cheaper for sure, but not quite as capable for other stuff or as purty

3. I’d like to get a plow or tiller to work the garden eventually. I’ve read that without the power director you cannot go slow enough to till and can’t get a “nice” plowing speed. Since the tractor was designed to work with a plow that seems a little strange but I’ve never plowed before so who am I to say. Is this true or would it plow just fine without the extra gears from a power director.

4. I’d like to tinker and maybe “restore” a tractor if I really liked it. However I am no mechanic nor do I play one on TV so I am intimidated (scared) of trying it. Am I crazy to start with a D10/12? How much worse than a smaller simpler machine like a B would it be? Without the power director I assume it would be fairly close to a B actually.

I’ve never driven a tractor without the power director so I’m not real sure what to expect and I didn’t want to throw down $30 on an operators manual for a tractor I probably won’t buy.

Thanks for the help I’ve typed enough, sorry for the long post, again this is a great sight.

Replies:

Posted By: papastanh
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2011 at 7:14pm

Welcome to the site Steve. I have only been reading theses posts for a short time, but find them helpful. I purchased a D-14 last fall and learning as I go, so not much help for your question right now. Best advise is to search for a manual and wait for good answers from others. Again Welcome and Good Luck...

Posted By: John (MO)
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2011 at 9:08pm

#1. Correct, except you can raise and lower the bucket on the move.

#2. Blades will run down and stop when you push the clutch. CA with hand clutch would be handy.

#3. Tilling without hand clutch or power director would be difficult. Plowing with standard plow would not be a problem.

#4. B is simple: 3 speed transmission, no hand clutch, no power director, not much of a lift. In my opinion it's not too useful. Again in my opinion, you might find it easier to work on, but what will you have when you do.

A CA is a good little tractor but many don't have a hand clutch and many have had them disconnected, so be careful about that. Consider a D14 if you are pretty set on the D series styling. They are a lot less expensive than a D10 or D12 most of the time because there are so many more of them. Same situation with the WD or WD45 over the CA. The CA is expensive because of low numbers while there are lots and lots of WD/WD45's and I don't think the bigger size is that big a deal.

Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2011 at 9:16pm

I agree with John.....go for a D14. They are less expensive, have a true power director (actually the D10/12 series III is not a pd, just a range tranny that must be clutched and stopped when shifted). The early D12/10 just does not work with a ground engaging implement like a tiller or post hole auger...if you get them stuck you will have to disconnect the pto shaft to lift them out of the ground...bad design putting the pto and hydraulics off the same shaft....

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ALLIS EXPRESS!
This year:

Posted By: Chalmersbob
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2011 at 9:22pm

Welcome to the site, Steve. I mow with a CA without a working hand clutch, and the finish mower isn't really a problem. I use a brush hog on a CA with a working hand clutch, There you need it unless you use an overiding clutch. I use the CA for all types of farming needs except using a tiller. It's too fast and the hand clutch would not last long if you slipped it continously to slow it down. A D-14 would give you all of the power and conviences that you would need. The power director is a wet clutch so you could possible use a tiller. The CA would be the least expensive way to go and would have all of the power that you would need.

Neither the D-10 or the D-12 have the power director in any series. Bob

Posted By: 427435
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2011 at 11:28pm

A CA or one of these would be a better unit for what you want to do.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Allis-Chalmers-720-Tractor-/230570254235?pt=Tractors&hash=item35af0edf9b - http://cgi.ebay.com/Allis-Chalmers-720-Tractor-/230570254235?pt=Tractors&hash=item35af0edf9b

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Mark

B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel,
GTH-L Simplicity

Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not.

Posted By: Steve79
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2011 at 8:42am

Thanks for the great information, I had a feeling that without the hand clutch the tractor would be a lot less useful at worst or a pain to use at best, now I know.

Eldon/Bob thanks for the heads up I had no idea there was a difference between a power director and range transmission. The power director sounds much more capable, I’ll have to read up on that topic. Thanks for the information.

John thanks for confirming my thoughts. I came to the same conclusion on the B as well, it’s small and simple which would be great for someone like me to learn on but when the time, sweat, and money is over you have a B, which isn’t terribly useful compared to the D series. I’m just a little overwhelmed by the size/complexity of something like a D14, I’ve done some work on cars but nothing as big and heavy as a full size tractor.

I zeroed in on the D10/12 because from what I could tell they have the same motor as the D14/15 and weighed 1000lbs less so I figured for mowing lighter is better. I definitely noticed you get a lot more bang for your buck with any WD or D series tractor over the D10/12. Heck you can get a nice D17 with a FEL for the same cost.

Thanks again for the information Ill have to do some more reading. Again great sight.

Steve

Posted By: RMD
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2011 at 10:51am

Look for a D10/12 that was made after mid-1961 that has the true independent PTO and hydraulics. The late Series I and Series II machines in that category don't command the high price of a Series III. I think they are more convenient for light utility work than a D14/15.

That said note that there is no independent/live PTO on any early D1-/12; but that some do have independent hydraulics by virtue of an engine mounted hydraulic pump. The engine mounted pump doesn't provide for draft control ("Traction Booster"). As far as loader hydraulics go, many loaders have a dedicated hydraulic pump mounted on the front of the tractor that gives lie hydraulics for the loader.

Without a Series III range transmission, the next best choice for roto-tillingwould be a post mid-1961 model with independent PTO - at least you can slip the clutch while the tiller keeps running.