D12 grill color.
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=208638
Printed Date: 24 Oct 2025 at 1:46pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: D12 grill color.
Posted By: jjrosty
Subject: D12 grill color.
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2025 at 7:26am
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I’m working on a 1961 D12 sn307x I’m confused on the grill / color. Currently there is an expanded steel grill welded in from the back. It looks like it was silver but not sure. There is no overlay grill. There is a small bolt sticking out the top center of grill opening that could have held a bolt on grill. The pictures I’ve seen show a plethora of colors & grill styles. What is correct? Black, cream, silver, three bars , square holes ??? Thanks ------------- If you always do, what you always did, You'll always get, what you always got |
Replies:
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2025 at 9:55am
| These little guys can be confusing and I didn't grow up around them which doesn't help. With chassis s/n 3001 and up on a D-12, you are considered a series 2 model. You should have a PTO clutch, if it has a PTO, and it is independent, not ground drive like a series 1 version. I say the paint scheme should have been Persian orange number 2 with creme wheel centers, steering wheel and a creme colored grille screen. The grille screening is horizontal screen like a D-17 series 3 or 4. Not the "X" bar screen. The grille was always separate from the grille/radiator shell, not welded to the shell. If there were early series 2's that were different that this, AGCO parts books doesn't show that. I have a D-10 also a 1961 model (don't have the s/n with me) and that is how it is configured. EDIT: I just found a U-tube video of a gentleman at an antique show with his 1961 D-10 series 2. He claims that the first half of 1961 the D-10/12's were still the old 3-horizontal bars/X-screen grilles (black/silver) and mid-year that got changed to the creme paint and horizontal style. It's almost like they had some left over 1960 build models sitting around and carried them over to early 1961. Technically, the chassis should have been persian orange #1, but who knows. Like I say, the parts book doesn't reflect these differences well at all. |
Posted By: jjrosty
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2025 at 12:12pm
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it appears that the x expanded metal grill is spot welded from the factory. I’ve seen the previous owners welding techniques & this is not his work. I’m aware that A/C used whatever they had on hand or used whatever they could find if they ran out of grills that day. There is no evidence that it ever had horizontal bars, unless the were bolted over the x metal grill opening. I agree with you on everything from my research. Btw there is one picture of one d12 on the internet that has a welded in grll like mine ( unless it’s AI generated)
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2025 at 12:58pm
| The grille screen was always removeable by factory design, regardless of which scrren it actually was. Never welded even tho it looks good. |
Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2025 at 3:34pm
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Should be a cream colored grille with rectangular holes. It's bolted on. Sounds like someone got handy with a welder on yours. ------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '63 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2025 at 3:55pm
| Not too busy at work today, so I've been doing a little internet smurfing. It's interesting that the video I watched today about D-10's, by someone more knowledgeable than me, said the first part or maybe first 6 month's of 1961 still had the old grille. He also said that the engine was just a "CA" engine sped up a little and was about 26-28 HP. He also said his didn't have the independent PTO clutch with a rear hydraulic pump. Sooo, I found the Nebraska tests for each official series two D-10 and D-12. It is interesting that the D-10 chassis s/n was 3501 and the D-12 chassis s/n was 3001. Those are the first actual series two serial numbers D-10/12 models according to the AGCO parts books. These tractors also had the D-14 engine, the G-149 and were 33 HP. I do think the tractor in the video had a G-138 engine, not the B/C 125 engine like he claimed. What I'm trying to say is, it seems the transition from the early old persian orange/black/silver grille, non live PTO tractors to the official series two new orange/creme wheel models is a bit skewed on accurate information. I'm beginning to think my own "live" PTO D-10 with the clutch and the rear live hydraulic pump was an OPTION, and not standard equipment like I assumed. More research is needed. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2025 at 3:56pm
were the bars ever painted black ?.... or is that someones handy work ?? ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: jjrosty
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2025 at 4:55pm
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it’s definitely a CA style, but my grill has the hump on top a place for an ac emblem. So it’s not a CA grill. As I said before the previous owner could not weld. His repairs were very crude. He touched up the paint with farmall red. Maybe the d12 grill guy was sick that day & a CA Guy filled in ------------- If you always do, what you always did, You'll always get, what you always got |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2025 at 5:35pm
| Looking thru my stash of literature, I find a sales brochure dated 12-1960. It is touting the new generation of "D"-series tractors, which of course includes the new model D-15 and H-3/HD-3 crawler tractors. The D-14 was dropped at this time. All the tractors sported the new persian orange #2 paint with creme wheels, steering wheel and grille with horizontal mesh, EXCEPT for the D-10/12 tractors, which got the new paint scheme, but still had the old x-mesh grille. They were not called a series 2 version either. So, it looks like they must have had a semi-load of x-mesh wire to get used up before they changed the grille to match the larger tractors. It appears that the true series two D-10/12's didn't come along until later on in 1961. At that time the live PTO, better hydraulic system and D-14 engines were the new improvements. EDIT: And yes, the early D-10/12 X-mesh grilles had the bars and outside border painted black and silver on the mesh while the chassis was P.O. #1. When the chassis got P.O. #2 paint the same old grille got painted creme. |
Posted By: jjrosty
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2025 at 6:31pm
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the plot thickens… I was just looking at the radiator baffle it’s mostly gray with a small amount of cream paint overspray. It looks original. Was gray primer used at the factory? ------------- If you always do, what you always did, You'll always get, what you always got |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2025 at 6:41pm
| No. Castings oft times had a red primer but never grey. Sheet metal had no primer. |
Posted By: Calvin Schmidt
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2025 at 7:17pm
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To add to the confusion, I have a brochure somewhere that has the mesh grill with the three bars all painted cream. The serial number breaks in the 1960-1961 era are not very clear in Norm's book ------------- Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2025 at 7:26pm
| And the X-wire was flat wire, not the twisted X-wire like a WD45 grille. |