Restored d17 project
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=207829
Printed Date: 20 Aug 2025 at 9:17pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Restored d17 project
Posted By: 55allis
Subject: Restored d17 project
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2025 at 7:45am
|
Blessed Sunday morning Just got this d17 in that does not turn over at all and I’m guessing that it’s the crank seals are the culprit due to that being the last thing that was done to it. It has been fully redone inside out supposedly. I thought that I’d post on here from the start to finish so that it’s on the record. Btw the rear crank seal is still leaking…..  ------------- 1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45 |
Replies:
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2025 at 7:57am
| That's a bad deal. I figured he'd have someone else (competent) fix it right and keep it after all the $$$$$ spent on it. |
Posted By: 55allis
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2025 at 6:01pm
|
Update: found that all 8 push rods are bent and I call shot… The rear crank seal leak ended up being the gasket had fell into the oil pan.    Anything else I should check? I’m going to re-torque everything just to be safe. What are the common problems that cause pushrod bending? Don’t want it to do it again… ------------- 1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45 |
Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2025 at 6:23pm
| In my case, the valves hung up in the head. Bent pushrods, bent valves, and left a mark in the piston where they made contact. Might even consider having the rods inspected as well. |
Posted By: 55allis
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2025 at 6:32pm
|
Here is the original thread about it. https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/topic207217_post1773954.html#1773954" rel="nofollow - https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/topic207217_post1773954.html#1773954 ------------- 1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45 |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2025 at 6:50pm
|
hard to believe that EVERY VALVE was stuck.. but possible... I would check the CAM TIMING... that would effect ALL valves hitting the pistons.... checking the rods for any BEND would be a good idea. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Les Kerf
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2025 at 8:29pm
X2 The previous thread linked above gave no indication as to whether or not this engine ever ran at all and no clues as to what type of 'overhaul' was done. Wrong pistons? Increased stroke? Shaved head? High-lift cam? Timing gears thrown in there haphazardly?  I dunno, I wonder who does?
|
steve(ill) wrote:Posted By: 55allis
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2025 at 8:57pm
|
Funny thing is I don’t see any damage to the pistons or valves… ------------- 1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45 |
Posted By: Bingo8
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2025 at 9:02pm
| Oh, I am keeping it. 55Allis is helping me out. It was an unfortunate situation. Unfortunately, I am not sure what I could have done differently when choosing him to restore it. He came highly recommended, has his work in magazines, and put clinics on for tractor restoration. Seemed like the right guy at the time. Hindsight is 20/20 but I am moving on with someone who hopefully can get it fixed up. |
Posted By: 55allis
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2025 at 9:23pm
Found these numbers on on piston; AE 233 Maybe a brand and part number? ------------- 1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45 |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2025 at 11:03pm
| Bout have to be cam out of time unless they're all stuck |
Posted By: 55allis
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2025 at 11:40pm
|
I’ll remove the timing gears cover and check it out. Think I’m still going to have to split the tractor due to a hydraulic leak in the clutch housing. Thanks!! ------------- 1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2025 at 6:41am
| There's something going on with that engine. It was a running engine !! That's why the rear seal was leaking...it RAN !! All 8 push rods bent on a running engine?? Makes you think the camshaft quit turning. |
Posted By: Les Kerf
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2025 at 8:15am
|
Could the governor fail and send debris into the timing gears and cause the cam to lock up? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2025 at 8:42am
| Worn governor weights and timing gear damage are two things that go together. Maybe, just maybe, the governor weights blew apart while the engine was running AND no one was sitting on the seat to shut off the key ?? That might xplain the carnage. And as far as the man who restored this tractor goes, he might very well be the great restorer of SOME BRANDS of tractors, but certainly not a D-17 Allis-Chalmers. I can't imagine tackling multiple brands for restore projects and ever hope to be very successful at it. The nuances and quirks of each particular brand and model keeps most of us busy when repairing/rebuilding things. |
Posted By: Les Kerf
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2025 at 9:21am
...AND maybe the guy WAS sitting in the seat and reached around with a broomstick and shoved the throttle wide open on the carburetor...   I spent 30 years in sawmill maintenance, and the single most difficult part about troubleshooting equipment problems was getting accurate, and COMPLETE information about what actually happened. What did you see? What did you hear? What was the machine doing immediately prior to the wreck? What was changed/adjusted? Etc.
|
Posted By: 55allis
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2025 at 1:45pm
|
So now I’m even wondering if he ever had it running… Spark plugs are new and never ran on (he claims put new ones after he ran it) Pistons still have grease on top. Crank pulley doesn’t have any paint/rust wore off from the belt. ------------- 1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45 |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2025 at 2:43pm
|
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2025 at 6:55pm
| Here's another good example of poor information. One of our younger field tech's was out working on an old Cat 988 wheel loader. The unit had around 50,000 total hrs on it. The complaint was a "may-day" sudden loss of engine power. Just started doing it too. Can't even use it, it's sooo bad. The Tech called me for some elderly advice. He said the engine starts and runs fine, but maximum turbo boost was 3 to 4 lbs low of factory specs. I told him that I think the injection pump is probably getting tired, and the complaint of it "just started doing this" isn't true. I suggested that he give the fuel delivery screw a turn or turn and a half outward and see if the boost improves. I also told him to grill all affected employees at this quarry about the machines power as of late. In the end, the boost went up. Engine HP was now where it should have been. The "lie" was that the performance has been somewhat weak for a year or more. This particular day the operator was "new" to this machine. |
Posted By: Les Kerf
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2025 at 7:27pm
|
DrAllis, that is iggzackly what I was referring to  I have never so much as touched a D17 Allis-Chalmers; is there anything really basic in the timing gear train that could have been left undone? Something really stupid like forgetting to tighten a nut or leaving a cotter pin out? Thereby allowing parts to fall off and cascade into catastrophic failure? |
Posted By: 55allis
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2025 at 9:07pm
|
Here is a picture of the sheet I got of what he supposedly did to it. It wouldn’t let me post a picture of it but it copied it. Allis Chalmers D-17 Statement of Repairs • Decals/Nose Emblem • Clutch Assembly (All) disc & pressure plate replaced • Replace Throw Out Bearing • Changed out Clutch Shaft • New Piston Rings • New Bearings • New Gaskets • Rebuilt Head-ground valves • Rebuilt Carburetor • Rebuilt Hydraulic Pump • Rebuilt Water Pump • Rebuilt Governor • Flushed and repaired radiator • New Rim on Rear End (1) • Replaced Front Rim (Used)(1) • Sand blasted rims and sheet metal • Painted entire Tractor • Split tractor 3 times • Rebuilt the head twice • Cleaned and Sealed Gas Tank • Replaced rear axle seals • New Brakes and seals • New wire harness and wiring • New Gauges and switches • New Steering Wheel • New Muffler • Switched from Generator to alternator • New points, plugs, condenser and cap • New Tires front and rear-with tubes • Starter Rebuilt • Replaced all hoses and clamps • Replaced Fan Belt • Replaced lights and or bulbs as needed • Seat Cover • Antifreeze, Oil, Rear End Oil, Hydraulic Oil • Oil Filter • Fly Wheel Ring Gear • Sediment Bowl • Shifter Boot ------------- 1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45 |
Posted By: 55allis
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2025 at 11:06pm
|
Would it still leave marks on the pistons if it was slowly getting turned over? Like if someone tried to pull start it? Or is it just lucky and didn’t leave marks…. I’m just plump curious on why there is no marks anywhere that I can find. ------------- 1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45 |
Posted By: TedN
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2025 at 12:22am
|
I notice in the statement of repairs that the head was rebuilt-ground valves and the head was rebuilt twice. Just a guess on my part but it probably didn't run enough hours during the restoration process to need the head rebuilt the second time, so there was probably something not quite right the first time it was done. I think I would at least ask. Not always fun stepping in at the end to try to figure out why a job wasn't finished. How much of the previous work do you assume was done correctly? And of couse how and why did all of the pushrods get bent so severely? I think maybe there was some factor in the first rebuild that caused coil bind in the springs(wrong springs?) and the pushrods were bent then, and either not replaced or they were "straightened" but still bent enough to be weakened so they bent shortly after it fired, but again just a guess on my part. Ted ------------- 190XTD seriesIII, 190XTD seriesI, maroon belly 7000, 190XTD series??? project(or maybe parts) |
Posted By: Jason (IN)
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2025 at 6:06am
| Makes me wonder if the push rods were even engaging the lifters. |
Posted By: Les Kerf
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2025 at 7:40am
Probably not. The valves come straight down in such a manner that the sharp edges will not cut into the piston unless the velocity is pretty high. Way back in my youth I did a ring and valve job on a Datsun 1600 cc overhead cam engine. In my ignorance I paid no attention to where the cam and crank phasing was and I just bolted the head on, then rotated the crank around to line up the timing marks. I felt a slight 'bump' of resistance while doing this but thought it was just the new rings dragging. Before I re-installed the engine I rotated it using a wrench, stuck my finger in the spark plug holes and found no compression on two cylinders. Yup, it bent the valves. Even though those valves contacted the pistons at an angle there were no discernible marks.
|
Posted By: Les Kerf
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2025 at 7:46am
Add labor to that and it will be pushing nigh unto $10G
 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2025 at 7:49am
| It will be interesting to get the timing cover removed and verify that the cam gear and crank gear are actually in time (or not). I've seen a lot of things in the last almost 60 years, but eight bent pushrods in a 4-cylinder engine isn't one of them. |
Posted By: Les Kerf
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2025 at 7:57am
You have a good point there  This would also explain why there are no marks on the pistons and it would not bend the valves.
|
Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2025 at 8:09am
|
Check the valve guides. We had one do the same thing. The guides were not pressed down to specs and the result was the keepers were hitting the guides . Head shop misread the specs. ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2025 at 8:27am
| Well, I will share something that happened to me a couple of years ago. I've got a One-Seventy gas tractor. It had been overhauled by someone probably less than 500 hrs before i bought it. It was a poorly done "in-chassis" OH. The engine had a slight thump or noise when it idled after getting warmed up. I tolerated that for the first summer of tractor riding and the next winter pulled the engine out to fix the badly leaking rear crankshaft seal. Well, the noise was the thrust surface on the crank was totally destroyed and the crank had about 1/8" of endplay. This being due to (I assumed) someone many moons ago not keeping the clutch pedal adjusted for freeplay. So, I had another crankshaft, got it reground to -.010"/-.010" and stuck it in the block from underneath. At the same time, I installed the last known new 175 camshaft that exists !! Why not ?? Pretty easy to do at that point. So, new mains, rods and cam bearings and a higher lift 175 camshaft. What a combo !! I had run a compression test before ever beginning work on the bottom end and it was OK fine. So, mid-summer of tractor rides and the engine dropped the #1 exhaust valve at full throttle going down the road with 30 other tractors following me. It destroyed the cyl head. It poked a hole in the piston top. It also had the rocker arm to that valve destroyed as well with metal flakes everywhere around the front of the cylinder head. What the Sam Hill has happened here ?? It took me a bit to finally connect all the dots, but the knuckle head that did many other things wrong on the engine OH didn't have that particular VALVE GUIDE pressed in the head as far as it should have been !!!!! So, with the installation of the higher lift 175 camshaft, the valve rotator was just kissing the top of the valve guide, eventually knocking the keepers loose at high RPM's and dropping the valve. So, I've been dealing with metal in the oil from that failure 2 years ago and even with magnets in the oil pan, I now hear the center main bearing pound whenever I start the engine cold until the oil pressure light goes out. Soooo, back to EIGHT bend pushrods..........better be sure the valve guides are installed at the proper depth !!!!!! I never bend a push rod because it wasn't hitting hard, just kissing. But this D-17 engine??? Something is terribly wrong. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2025 at 8:29am
| Took me 20 minutes to type my short story and TBran beat me to it !!! |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2025 at 11:14am
| Lol there pokey....starting to look like guides may be the culprit. |
Posted By: TedN
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2025 at 11:18am
|
First post said it doesn't turn over at all - does it now turn with the head removed? It looks like the pistons are in different positions, so I would guess it does. I think I would bolt the head back on and see if I could get a pushrod straight enough to give a decent indication, then roll it over by hand until you see what stops it. I think the suggestion of valve guides is correct, because it would be difficult to time the cam to bend ALL of the pushrods so severely, maybe half of them. Be interesting to see the cause. Ted ------------- 190XTD seriesIII, 190XTD seriesI, maroon belly 7000, 190XTD series??? project(or maybe parts) |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2025 at 11:28am
| There's a dimension given in the service manual as to how far to press the valve guides in BELOW flush of the top surface of the cylinder head (where the valve cover gasket contacts). This is the most likely cause of 8 destroyed push rods. |
Posted By: Clay
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2025 at 11:30am
|
Improperly knurled or honed valve guides? Valve guide bores measured for the proper tolerance?
Condition of valve stems? Valve seat depth? Rust or deposits on the valves? Excess fuel or water in the cylinders? Engine way out of time? Mud daubers? Gremlins? These and many other mysteries need to be answered. |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2025 at 11:36am
| my red flag is it said that the head was done twice it was split three times three places or the same place three times |
Posted By: 55allis
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2025 at 11:45am
|
The front crank pulley was never pulled… Was just about every thing my puller could pull without heating it up. The seal looks original. The engine does turn over after I got all the push rods out (that was really fun getting one out ).The valve guides look to be good with being just pass even with top of head.    Valve that I pulled doesn’t appear to be in the best shape but looks like it should run. ------------- 1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2025 at 11:52am
| I'd have to look in my service manual at home to tell you the guide height, but it's below flush of the top of the head, not flush. I'm thinking 1/8" inch below. When one used Allis/AGCO guides they had a mark on the guides that was the proper dimension so you pressed them into the head from the top until the mark was flush with the guides bore. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2025 at 12:15pm
|
that valve face looks like it was cut with a body grinder !! ....... is it just a bad picture, or is it really that bad ? ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Les Kerf
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2025 at 1:36pm
My 14 year old grandson does a better job than that using my 100 year old Van Norman valve grinder. Seriously.
|
Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2025 at 4:17pm
| The stem also looks like its an old valve not new one |
Posted By: 55allis
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2025 at 6:39pm
Just noticed today that the bottom of the sleeves are pitted pretty bad… If I was to planing on running it a lot I’d probably go ahead and put new sleeves in due to burning a little oil.  I didn’t realize that someone could do a job like this and still get business while charging full price.. ------------- 1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45 |
Posted By: 55allis
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2025 at 6:42pm
He probably could run a paint gun a lot better than what this guy did too!!! The back wheels are full of runs… and the front axle was painted with a brush it looks like to me…. ------------- 1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2025 at 7:02pm
| Intake guides to be at least 1/8" (.125") below flush with the top of the head and exhausts are flush. |