head gasket
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20524
Printed Date: 20 Jun 2025 at 3:33pm
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Topic: head gasket
Posted By: farmer_rob
Subject: head gasket
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 11:55pm
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i replaced the head gasket on my series 4 262 d17 about 5 yrs ago . i troque it down by the specs but i cant remember if i did it again after it was warm. i noticed its gone again at the back . the head was sent off and completely checked out the last time and found there was nothing wrong. the the top pf the engine deck was find aswell.. my question is when replacing the gasket is there anything needed to put down ahead on the surfaces or do u just put it down dry???? any other tricks to help this repair last longer? thanks rob ------------- if farming was easy everybody would be doing it |
Replies:
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2010 at 6:13am
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The head didn't need to be surfaced? I'm in the process of overhauling a D262 and have done a fair amount of research. In talking to Bill at Sandy Lake, I don't remember him telling me to use anything like copper coat on the gasket, but that may be a good idea. The other stickler on this engine is sleeve protrusion. If your sleeves are not standing above the deck .002, head gaskets typically don't hold long. I would give Sandy Lake a call and ask for Bill. He will know what to do. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: dannyraddatz
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2010 at 6:29am
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Rob,
In my wd45 manual they talk about screwing the cap bolts all the way in and measuring the distance of the bolt between the block and the bottom of the cap nut. I have been told the bolts can stretch and it talks about tapping the bolt hole deeper if necessary. I also have been told to use a AGCO head gasket if you can get one. Hope these thought help you with your project.
Danny ------------- Danny Raddatz |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2010 at 6:32am
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That's a very good idea Danny, especially if the block has been surfaced several times like I think my old one was. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: TedBuiskerN.IL.
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2010 at 9:29am
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ARP has head bolts for that engine on the shelf. The last set I bought was $120 including nuts and washers. All you need to do is call, and tell them the length, threads and size. They don't have kits as such, but they have the correct bolts on hand. ------------- Most problems can be solved with the proper application of high explosives. |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2010 at 9:41am
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What do you mean by gone? Is it blown at the cylinder or is it just seeping water at the back?
If it was just seeping a little I'd re torque after warming it up and add a can of Barrs head gasket sealer. If you have blown a cylinder ring seal then you have a different story.
I had a problem years ago with an Oliver 1850 seeping water and the Oliver dealer said he had received a bulletin from Oliver to put in a can of Barrs leak. I did that and it ended the problem. That was after the third head gasket and resurfacing the head.
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Posted By: Sam T-Ga
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2010 at 7:49pm
| They blow out at the small water passage, there is not much material in the gasket between the fire ring and that hole. I have D17 I am replacing gasket, I am trying a Felpro gasket this time looks like a better gasket than last one I used. I put a roll pin in the block to stick thur the gasket at the water hole my thinking was that it might help support the gasket and hold in place. The old gasket lasted about 7 yrs. On my WD45 I replaced with a solid copper gasket, Lubuck gasket made it and I got them to leave that hole out of the gasket. Sam T-Ga. |
Posted By: farmer_rob
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2010 at 11:47pm
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dick the gasket is seeping right at the back of the engine near the tank. its not leaking alot just a small little stream. alittle more then 10yrs ago i did an in frame engine job. at that time the top of the motor was checked and it was true but the head was off alittle and was cracked in many places.i found a D19 head and sent it out to be gone over.. 5 yrs later the gasket was leaking much like it is now but alot worst thou. now 5 laters im doing it again but before i replace it i might try retighten the bolts to see what happens. what should the clearance be with the cylinder liners?? thanks rob ------------- if farming was easy everybody would be doing it |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2010 at 12:52am
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The liners should stand ABOVE the block .002. If they don't, it is unlikely that a new head gasket will hold long term. What Rob talks about is something Bill at Sandy Lake also said to try. My D17D started out the same as yours, leaking a little from the rear of the head. Mine finally blew into the cooling system causing it to boil over. When I pulled the head I had liners .005 to .007 below the surface of the block. Years ago in the dealer's service dept they had a special tool to recut the counter bores and then install liners with thicker ledges. The thicker liners are NLA so the fix is recut the counter bores and then surface off the block to get the correct height. What you think might be just a simple head gasket job can turn into a complete overhaul. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2010 at 9:50am
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most of the time what cause the sleeve to fall is that it isnt setting flat on the counterbore to begin with. the ledges of the counter bore and sleeve have to be flat any radius however minute it is causes trouble. If you use a flat steel plate or old head and torque it down to specs to or three times then remove it you can witness the above first hand. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Steve Zidlicky
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2010 at 10:04am
| I had the same trouble on one in the past. you can get bolts from caterpillar at a good price when I did mine and reguardless of what they say about going dry, use copper coat. cheap insurance. |
Posted By: KY
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2010 at 2:46pm
| Same problem with D-19. Had to replace sleves like brian says. They were flush to a few thousands below the top of the block. The machine shop decked the block and reground the sleve landings. Many times cracks in the block can allow the sleve to sink down also. We were fortunate and had no cracks. There is a machine shop in mt vernon Il that is very good at working on older engines. They fixed it right up at a reasonable price. |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2010 at 9:22pm
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What Bill at Sandy Lake tells me is rust is the usual culprit from lack of cooling system care. The ledges on the Buda sleeves are narrower than 201-226 gas sleeves. That was definitely the problem in my original block. If you have a rust problem when you pull the sleeves, the counter bores can be replaced. If you look for another block, be picky on the water jacket condition. Also keep in mind that a nice rust free block may still need the counter bores recut. My replacement block was rust free but still needed the bores done. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: farmer_rob
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2010 at 7:49am
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well pulled the head but what a bear it was.. the very back bolt on the right hand side was basically rusted in the head. i couldnt break it lose with anything.ended up using heat then broke off the head. i thought i was in the clear after that but i couldnt lift the head off the remainder of the bolt.. thats how i know it was rusted in the head lol. i was able to lift the head about 1/4" then i used a hack-saw to cut the bolt.. should have said 3 blades ;-). i tried using the drill and easy-out method to get the remainder of the bolt out of the block. ended up using a washer and nut idea.. what was left of the bolt came out of the head by pushing it thru from above.. well now for the reason why the gasket wen was likely due to the bolts being streched aand having damaged threads.. i have a complete kits ordered .. sorry for the long post ------------- if farming was easy everybody would be doing it |
Posted By: daddy2kids
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2017 at 1:18am
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Decided to finally join this forum. Before I go look for a mechanic,I usually DIY for minor repairs on my cars. My car's engine has small oil leak on top that is why I https://www.jenreviews.com/best-head-gasket-sealer/" rel="nofollow - just used a sealant on the head gasket and that solved it. That's because if I go to the shop for minor repairs, most won't tell you it just needs minor repair and they will ask you a hefty bill for it.
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Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2017 at 7:23am
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Fire rings are junk in diesel head gasket is what causes sleeve sleeve to sink. Fire rings are too soft causing sleeves to start working in block. I have fire rings that will hold sleeve in place. MACK.
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Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2017 at 8:38am
| Farmer, before you put the head back on get a bottom tap and chase all the holes with it all the way to the bottom. Spray each hole with brake clean and blow it out. Watch your eyes! Lube threads with a light oil. If you're using a click style torque wrench, I like to pull it to the point of the click real slow because if you do it kind of quick it'll click or snap before it's really to the torque limit. |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2017 at 9:18am
I hope after 6 plus years Farmer has it back together by now.  ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: mattb
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2017 at 2:16pm
| i used some of macks fire rings and they did the trick on mine |
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2017 at 9:29am
| Dang, I'm going to quit assuming comments are current. But what I added is still good practice to use. |