Air/Water tire gauge ?
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=186178
Printed Date: 25 Apr 2025 at 9:24am Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Air/Water tire gauge ?
Posted By: ACinSC
Subject: Air/Water tire gauge ?
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2022 at 3:46pm
Just found out there's a special gauge . Is this needed ? I always get the valve stem at 12:00 when I check my loaded rear tires . Granted a little water does come out . Thanks !
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Replies:
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2022 at 3:57pm
Worst that'll happen, is you get water, and whatever other contaminants, into your tire gauge. You can rinse them out with fresh water... but I'm betting someone makes a special one that is resistant to calcium, beet juice, and rubber goo...
------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2022 at 4:42pm
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2022 at 5:47pm
All you have to do is put a short blast of air in, before checking the pressure (w/valve at 12:00)...
------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!
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Posted By: jvin248
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2022 at 6:06pm
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Seems like all I can ever find on the tires is "do not exceed XXpsi when setting rim" but nothing about how many psi the tire is supposed to have. Car tires are the same way. "Max air pressure" never operating pressure targets. And all the pressure text is in super tiny fonts. "Gotta look in the book".
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Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2022 at 6:16pm
Thanks DIYDave ! I'll give that a try .
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Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2022 at 11:43pm
DiyDave wrote:
All you have to do is put a short blast of air in, before checking the pressure (w/valve at 12:00)... |
That's the method I use. Change cores every 2 years. Think I need to make it annual. Last few times (3 units) had to dig out part of the old core.
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Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 9:38am
Steve , what's the procedure for changing the valve on a loaded rear tire ? Valve up and tire jacked up ? Thanks !
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Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 9:41am
The "special gauge" is sealed. Keeps all the goo out of the gauge. They're neat, when you pull the indicator out it sucks itself back in.
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Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 10:15am
ACinSC wrote:
Steve , what's the procedure for changing the valve on a loaded rear tire ? Valve up and tire jacked up ? Thanks ! |
That's how I do it. WD,220,8070 Not hard,just takes time and not that much. Have to jack each side and takes some jacking on 8070 with squatted radials. Must be held up as I had to remove water valve to get all the old core out. I have a couple spares so I plugged rushing air but you lose a lot of air removing water valve. It works for me. Just pull the cap and see if it's wet inside....time to change.
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Posted By: Brian G. NY
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 10:45am
jvin248 wrote:
. but nothing about how many psi the tire is supposed to have. Car tires are the same way. tiny fonts. "Gotta look in the book" . |
For the tractors, "gotta lookin the book" is good advice but most of the old tractors ran about 12 PSI in the rears.
As far as cars and trucks, for many, many years the recommended PSI is shown on a decal on the driver's side door column. May even be a federal requirement.
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Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 11:40am
Just checked my book and it says 14 PSI for rear D 15 tires . Also pulled the valve caps and they're both dry . My book says 12.4-26 or 13.6-26 tires , mine are 14.9-26 . I'm thinking 12 PSI should be good ? Thanks !
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Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 12:55pm
The rear tire that looked a little low had zero PSI ? Other tire had 9 PSI . Guess if it's full of water it won't go flat ? I'll have to keep a closer eye on these tires . I put 14 PSI in them . I've always wondered if the previous owner didn't put too much water in these tires ? Thanks !
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Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 1:02pm
Water will keep them from going totally flat. Depending on the construction of the tire, the sidewalls will hold up some too, depending on the weight of the tractor. Water level should be approximately to the top of the rim.
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Posted By: Dave (NE)
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 1:13pm
Milton makes a gauge for tractors with air/water filled tires. And it is a made in the USA item! I got mine at a local car parts place. Snow Auto in Lincoln. Don't know if they have locations elsewhere, but they seem to have more of the "unique" items. They had cans of Kroil, small light bulbs for the tractor dash, and stuff I couldn't find at other parts places. Milton also has gauges for regular tires and seem to be more accurate than the cheap China made things.
------------- Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain.
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Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 1:24pm
Thanks Craig and Dave . Good info !
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Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2022 at 11:10pm
So the thing about pneumatic tires, is that the more weight you put on one, the more the tire squats. What's happening, is more tire surface is contacting the ground.
A tire with 2000lbs on it, with 10psi, will have a surface contact area of 2000/10=200 square inches. If the tire contact was a perfect rectangle (it's not), it'd be 16" wide by 12" long. IF you double the pressure (20psi), you'll decrease that contact surface to 100 square inches, which comes out to about 10x10" contact.
Caveat here- This all holds true if the tire contact surface is totally flat (it's not... it's usually a chevron-type tread), and the ground is totally flat (it's not... we're on soil, not pavement). The result, is that the tread high spots create a higher surface pressure, and compact the soil in... until the composite support of the tread high spots, and the low spots (where the tire has sunk to) equate to the total support load.
Now, in motion, there's a bit of dynamic load that occurs... bouncing, and deforming to suit an uneven surface. Driving over a laid-over fencepost, for example. The tire deforms going over that shape, and while it happens, the tire's internal pressure rises a little... the air is being compressed.
When you have FLUID in the tire, it's a different story... because the fluid is NOT compressible. If the tire is totally full of fluid, it cannot deform in the same way as if it was fully pneumatic. Not only do you have more weight, you have a tire which might as well be solid... and this makes the tire incapable of doing the deformation-distribution that it would have on compactable soils.
If you look at the tractive effort demonstrations during the timeframe of the Allis WC's introduction, there was considerable comparison between tractive effort of a spade-tread steel wheel, against a pneumatic tire. Most were convinced that the steel spades could not be beaten by a rubber pneumatic tire, but in fact, the pneumatic rubber tire's effective drawbar output was HIGHER, because it could deform to increase and distribute tractive effort over soft surfaces, where a solid wheel required extra horsepower just to climb itself out of the hole it was in.
When you fill the tire with fluid, you DO increase the ground contact weight, and you DO increase the amount of total machine load over driven wheels, but you WILL lose the deforming capacity advantage of a pneumatic tire....
And this is ONE of the reasons why manufacturers recommend that you not fill beyond a certain point.
It is also part of the reason why you won't find a sidewall pressure rating other than 'not to exceed when mounting'... because tire pressure IN USE, is determined by field and operating circumstances, not by the road/load circumstances you find on an automobile or highway truck application. Road tires are load rated because the tire's pressure has a direct impact on how much heat the tire generates internally, and at what loadpoint it will no longer be able to survive safely. This circumstance doesn't happen in an agricultural field tire, and the agricultural circumstances don't occur on a road tire.
It is important to understand that when you hit a bump with a tire, the tire deforms, and pressure inside the tire rises. The volume of air in the tire acts as a 'buffer' to distribute this pressure rise, but when that volume is replaced with a liquid (non-compressible), the buffer volume is smaller, so the pressure RISE is much higher, in a shorter time. This means a good bump could cause a tire or rim to fail... and that's where the air volume LEFT in the tire becomes important... keep the pressure there low, and you'll have better shock absorption... just need enough pressure to keep it from unseating... or if you have tubes, enough to keep the tire and tube from slipping inside the rim.
------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2022 at 6:43am
If you only have air, you don't need a special gauge and your rims won't rot.
------------- If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2022 at 7:23am
Thanks Dave Kamp for the explanation .
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Posted By: Dave (NE)
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2022 at 9:14am
If you only have air in the rear tires, you lose a lot of traction. Fluid adds a lot of weight. Much more than just exterior weights. Makes a big difference, especially if you have a loader on.
------------- Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain.
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Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2022 at 12:00pm
Have to agree with Dave . I've pulled the same harrow/disc with loaded and unloaded rear tires . Loaded wins every time . JMHO
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Posted By: DonBC
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2022 at 4:59pm
It has been decades since I was around farm tractors with fluid filled tires. I was under the impression that calcium or some other product was added to the water to increase the weight and present freezing problems in the winter and that that additive damaged conventional tire pressure gauges.
------------- Jack of all trades, master of none
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Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2022 at 5:16pm
Am currently using Methanol (Even Blue tint like WS Wash Fluid) 60 gal each side 18.4/26 rears on a 180
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Posted By: tadams(OH)
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2022 at 9:25am
How often do you change valev cores?
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Posted By: Walt
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2022 at 6:13pm
I replace mine every spring, aren't used in the winter, in the fall I park them in the shed, rotate each tire so the stem is on the top then replace the cores each spring before I move them. The show girls get blocks under them to keep the tires off the floor. Put new tires, tubes and rims on the WD45 over 20 years ago, calcium chloride for ballast and they haven't rotted off yet, don't rekon they will in my lifetime. Also have a little farmall with CC in the rears, been there over 50 years and still in good shape. Just like anything, knowledge and good practices goes a long way toward production.
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Posted By: 200Tom1
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2022 at 6:30pm
Gauges made to work with calcium have a little ball on the end of the stem. You need to rinse them out after each use. Simply stick the business end down into a pan, old drink cup full of water and grab ahold of the little ball pull it out 3 or 4 times. I always carried 5 or 6 new ones in the service truck. Even with rinsing them out it seemed like they only lasted for half dozen tires. If I didn't rinse them out they might last 2 or 3 tires.
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Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2022 at 7:24pm
PaulB wrote:
If you only have air, you don't need a special gauge and your rims won't rot. |
And you won’t pull squat.
------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2022 at 11:42pm
Adding calcium chloride to the water DOES increase the weight, AND DOES lower the temperature at which the fluid will freeze. The density of saltwater is greater than fresh, which is why we float very well in the Great Salt Lake, but not so well in the city pool. It also does some very unexpected things to submarines that venture into certain waterways in certain parts of the world where salinity is unexpectedly low... or high...
Calcium inside a tubeless assembly will cause significant wheelrot. (That's a new word I just added to Webster's)...
A tire/wheel assembly that uses innertubes, will see significantly less circumstance of wheelrot... so long as the tube keeps the caustic contents on it's inner-side, rather than leaking THROUGH it's rubber skin, and... as long as the valve stem and stem adapter maintain a positive seal. Frequently, you'll find wheelrot greatest around the stem area FIRST, because *unlike Walt*, most people add caustic contents and walk away for three-to-five decades... and those contents become casually migratory.
windshield washer fluid (methanol and water) will usually reduce the freezing point... methanol has it's own interaction with rubber, but it works... On my little loader tractors, I lay the wheel/tire flat on the ground, unseat the top bead, stick a wedge in it, and pour in Propylene Glycol (pink RV anti-freeze). It too, has a LOWER density than fresh water, but it needs to be around -25 before it assumes crystalline structure... and I leave plenty of space for air, as my lower back does NOT take the kind of beating the little buggers can dish out when workin' the bucket.
Two important notes about using liquid ballast in tires, rather than iron:
Iron weights in the middle of the wheels have POLAR INERTIA... it takes force to get them spinning, and once spinning, they don't like to stop. When you use fluid in a tire, the tire can spin up rapidly, and the fluid in side doesn't HAVE to.
Iron weights have their mass centered on the axis of the tire/wheel assembly... because they're mounted in the middle. Fluid in a tire... when it's half full... puts that ballast's weight BELOW the axle centerline....
That means the center-of-gravity of the MACHINE is effectively LOWERED by adding that ballast... it'd be the same as having those iron weights always sitting ON the contact point of the tire, not 30" up off the ground. Imagine having all your suitcase weights suspended below the tractor, an inch off the ground, how much lower the composite center of gravity would be... and how much that would reduce the tipover angle...
------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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