190 XT - trying to resurrect
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=185125
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Topic: 190 XT - trying to resurrect
Posted By: jlkansascity
Subject: 190 XT - trying to resurrect
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2021 at 9:49am
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I posted on here once before and got some pointers. Yesterday I spent the day out in the country helping out with this 190 XT and would like to get some input from experts here. It ran as recently as a year ago. The owner put new tires and wheels on rear, so now there is sunk money to encourage getting it working. Recently it started "not starting". Owner noticed oil pressure light never would go off when last ran. When last ran, it was left to sit and idle for maybe an hour. Now it doesn't start well, and suspicions are there is no oil pressure. YESTERDAY - goal was to determine yes/no did it have oil pressure 1) changed oil. Oil was very thin, and seemed like there was diesel in it. 2) removed sending unit for oil pressure idiot light 3) attached mechanical oil pressure gauge into block where sending unit was 4) cranked the engine to push oil out the small copper tube attachment for gauge. Barely got a few drops. 5) attached gauge. needle did not even move when cranking. 6) actually got it started for a few seconds, gauge needle did not move, not ever. Based on this, my suspicion is oil pump is bad. Alternatively, oil pump pickup screen/tube could be plugged. PLAN - 1) drop pan and inspect 2) if no blockage on pump pickup, then conclude oil pump is shot. 3) replace oil pump. QUESTIONS - 1) how common are oil pump failures on these? 2) where can you get a oil pump? 3) does anybody see any gaps in my troubleshooting or could suggest anything else? Thanks in advance, JL
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Replies:
Posted By: allisbred
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2021 at 10:15am
| If you still have the oil and is not contaminated by the pan you used, I would send it for analysis. Look for bearing material, coolant, and fuel contamination. I would start there. |
Posted By: jlkansascity
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2021 at 2:13pm
| that's a great idea. I think he saved some in a jug to show me so I think we will be able to do this. |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2021 at 7:56pm
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Cut old oil filter apart and look for metal there too.
------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: John m
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2021 at 8:13pm
| And please keep us updated on your findings. |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2021 at 8:22pm
| Don't sound like it has ran long enough to get oil pressure. (recently it started. "not starting"" ) don't understand. MACK |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2021 at 7:24am
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If you suspect you have diesel fuel in the oil, I would suspect the flex ring in the injection pump is bad, which causes it to either start, then stall quickly or, possibly, not start at all. When the flex ring goes bad, pieces of it plug the check valve in the top of the pump. With no place for the excess fuel to go, it pushes fuel past the umbrella seals on the pump shaft and into the engine oil.
Does the engine oil smell like diesel fuel ? Have you tried removing the ball from the top of the pump (return line) and trying to start it? |
Posted By: SLee(IA)
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2021 at 9:30pm
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The oil filter on an xt is inverted. Oil drains out of the filter every time the engine is shut off. The engine must run long enough to fill the filter and get oil up to the turbo. You can hear the turbo change pitch when oil gets to the bearing. This is when the oil light goes out. We feed cattle every day with our xt so tonight when I started it, I left the throttle at idle and timed how long it was from start up till the oil light went out. Using the stop watch on my phone it was 8.5 seconds. You may have other problems with the engine, I'm just saying it takes quite a while before the idiot light goes out. Steve
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Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2021 at 10:22pm
I put a external oil pressure gauge on my XT for this very reason, I wanted to see what oil pressure the engine was building once it started. Best piece of mind for me. I had a idiot light go bad and it really had me worried. Found out the oil pressure switch was defective. Good pressure, idiot light still came on. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: SLee(IA)
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2021 at 7:28pm
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AC720Man, How long after starting does your gauge start to show pressure? I wonder how much pressure it takes to trip the switch for the light. Thanks Steve
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Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2021 at 8:39pm
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I can check tomorrow and give you an update. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: JayIN
Date Posted: 25 Dec 2021 at 3:07pm
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Pressure will not build without restriction. Tight bearings with proper clearance. If you have a loose bearing- cam , rod or main bearing you will not build pressure. Oil pumps are the first thing to get oil and usually the last thing to go out. Pressure is probably blowing back into the pan from a worn bearing. ------------- sometimes I walk out to my shop and look around and think "Who's the idiot that owns this place?" |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 26 Dec 2021 at 12:13pm
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Finally started my XT and watched the oil pressure light and gauge. The oil light went off within 3 seconds, full oil pressure on the gauge in 5 seconds. Runs about 40 psi at 1,000 rpm, 60 psi at 2,000 rpm. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 26 Dec 2021 at 1:46pm
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I'm wit' Mack. It doesn't sound to me like it ran long enough either. If it ran for a few seconds and quit, that's not really a good analysis. Especially if it sat for quite a long time. I would say it should show some type of oil pressure on the gauge in around 10-20 seconds of running time after sitting for quite some time. Oil galleys drain back to the pan when an engine sits for quite some time. It's not like its run for a while the day before and as soon as you fire it, oil pressure is there at the gauge... Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2021 at 11:01am
Thats why I put a remote oil filter base and flipped the filters o n my D-17, 19 and XT, big difference in cold weather. ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
SLee(IA) wrote:Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2021 at 9:32am
| I never cared for the upside down filter thing but history tells us that it has no effect on engine life. |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2021 at 1:28pm
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Yea, the only thing it’s good for is it makes changing oil less messy. With all the oil drained out of it, there is very little to clean up. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2021 at 1:37pm
| If you can let them set overnight it's a pretty clean change. Not so much if you drop the oil and immediately pull filters. |