John Deere X9
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=183079
Printed Date: 17 Aug 2025 at 5:58pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: John Deere X9
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Subject: John Deere X9
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2021 at 9:16pm
| I know this is our beloved orange site but I just had a look at this combine and it seems to me the twin rotor was pioneered by New Holland back in the '70s. Do those green folks ever not steal others ideas?? Ryan |
Replies:
Posted By: Robert Musgrave
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2021 at 9:36pm
| The Innovators offer what the Imitators will market! R. Musgrave |
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2021 at 9:41pm
| I just remember New Holland pioneering the whole rotary idea and twin rotors. Ryan |
Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2021 at 6:46am
|
Why do you think that the early pull type JD 12A looks so much like an All-Crop 40? When you don't have the research and development costs in getting a new model on the market, the profit is higher. Just look at how long JD sold tractors with only half a motor. It's a lot easier for someone else to do all the leg work and them just work in your own power plant and cab controls, then splash some green paint on things. .
------------- If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2021 at 7:45am
| New Holland indeed invented the "Twin Rotor" design for combines with the rotors positioned lengthwise on the chassis. These rotors threshed the crop at the front section and did separation towards the rear as the crop moved thru the machine. Twenty five years later, Claas introduces their new design, that has a conventional cylinder taking the crop from the feederhouse , threshing the crop, and then spitting the fodder into the front of twin separating rotors. This design clearly opened the door for higher and higher bushels per hour and has been for all these years the largest capacity combine in the world. The new Deere X-9, all New Holland combines and the new AGCO Fendt Ideal combine are all using twin threshing/separating rotors quite similar to each other, but the Claas is still the only one that takes advantage of threshing the crop before entering the rotors. Time will tell if any of these new machines will out work the largest Claas, which is considered a class 11 size, while all the rest of them are class 10. |
Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2021 at 1:02pm
|
The New Holland CH series, ( https://agriculture.newholland.com/eu/en-uk/equipment/products/combine-harvesters/ch" rel="nofollow - https://agriculture.newholland.com/eu/en-uk/equipment/products/combine-harvesters/ch ) which is sold outside of the North America, has a cylinder and twin rotors. I once inquired as to why they didn't sell it here, and the response was that North American farmers were used to rotor only machines, and it would be a tough sell here. As far as Deere not having a research budget, I believe their research budget, is greater than agco's total sales. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2021 at 7:03am
Wasn't the Deere CTS actually doing this? I don't know about twin rotors, but a cylinder plus rotors rather than just a "rotary". Deere didn't stick with it very long. *edit* yep, twin rotors, 1 year after Claas, but not as large. Don't think even Deere can copy a whole concept and have market numbers of it in a year! First Deere rotary concept was in 1957, the XCC. All the "steeling" threads crack me up. Engineering technologies are pretty generic, and ideas float around freely. Education, conferences, shows, tooling providers, people changing jobs.....
|
DrAllis wrote:Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2021 at 2:26pm
|
Gleaner built rotaries going back to the late 20's or early 30's. Baldwin held several patents involving rotary threshing. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Dennis J OPKs
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2021 at 3:05pm
| Not a big Deere fan but for all the operators who need timely service/repair- there are only 2 or 3 players and Deere is the big dog. Their R & D budget for 2020 was $1.64 Billion. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2021 at 3:58pm
|
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2021 at 9:17pm
After working around an S780 lately I can't believe the complicated mess that they are. Lot's of gear boxes! Kinda off topic but I live to bash Deere some days.  ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: dr p
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 12:01am
| Thought I remember reading here that the lead engineer for the axial flow design team was a former gleaner engineer and there were some legal issues between ac and ih over him using ac technology |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 6:29am
| I don't think so. The only thing might be the IH cleaning fan design in the last 20 years was somewhat based off of the transverse fan on the 1972 and newer Gleaners. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 6:45am
OK, dumb question not picking on you.....How are they supposed to do it? They used to get bashed for too many belts and twists, now it's bashed for gearboxes. What does a Gleaner do so differently? Hydraulic motors? Can't see how that is that much better in the long run. I honestly don't know, I couldn't tell you where the nearest Gleaner is to me, not a clue, especially a newer one. Never been around a new one, haven't been around an older one since the early 80's when a neighbor did our oats for us.
|
Posted By: ryan(IN)
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 2:37pm
Well if you’d paid any attention to the Gleaner lit or videos over the years you would know that they use mainly belts and straight through shafts. It uses one gear box and that is for the rotor. Very efficient transfer of power using belts and a very simple system. ------------- ryan 1984 8070 FWA,1979 7060,1975 7040,1971 190,1960 D-17D,1957 D-14, 196? D-19G, 1975 5040,1971? 160,1994 R62 |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 2:48pm
|
Well, I DIDN'T pay attention to them, because again, there aren't any around here. Still, Deere uses belts and shafts, and gets slammed. Now they use gearboxes (apparently, haven't been around one) and get slammed. But if they used belts, they'd get slammed for copying Gleaner. K, got it. Plain truth is, there are only so many ways to transmit power mechanically, and to change directions and such, and it wasn't Deere, Gleaner, IH, or Joe Blow that came up with them.
|
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 2:53pm
|
its not the fact that they use them, because they all do, its the quantity. the fendt is not any better than the green or red ones. they are all so complex, with far more moving parts. more complexity equals more problems. now the gleaners are not class 10 and 11 combines so maby its not a fair comparison? ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 4:05pm
Good heavens how many rotary combines are in Card’s, Williams, and Dick Coutler’s service areas. A heck of a lot. Probably as many rotaries as conventionals. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 7:35pm
|
On a Gleaner the engine sits sideways, as does the rotor, therefore there is no need for a gearbox anywhere on the combine to change direction of power. There is a transmission on the rotor, but that is there for changing speed ranges, not direction of power. The Gleaner combine is a good system, it will run with the best of them. Having said all of that, when conditions are at there absolute worst, none of them hold a candle to the Claas combine. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 7:43pm
| I hear rumors that there will be a larger capacity Gleaner down the road. Something about twin rotors but wait and see. If the current design Gleaner with the transverse rotor could be made one or two feet WIDER everywhere, it could evolve into a class 10 or 11 machine. But, as it is, the overall width is maxxed out and that's all it will ever be, unfortunately. |
Posted By: soggybottomboy
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 8:04pm
| I had a chance to look the Deere x9 over at the farm progress show last week. I counted 13 belts that i could see, and most of them were big ones of course. There was one #80 roller chain driving something near the header, but it was hard to see past all the shielding. I tried to look at the Fendt combine, but it was like looking into a dark cavern behind all the shields and i just couldn't see in there well enough to count belts. Last progress show i looked the Fendt over and came away thinking it was a monstrosity, but after seeing the Deere, it did not seem that way this year. Both way more combine than we will ever need. I hear your can spend a million for the Deere including heads. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 8:31pm
Gearboxes are heavy, expensive initially and expensive to repair. I haven't been around the new Gleaners but the R series had one gearbox and the only hydraulic motor was the reverser. I think the newer Gleaners still only have one gearbox but have a hydraulic driven spreader system. And I still love bashing Deere! ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 12:08am
Idk, how many? Who is Williams? The other 2 are 100 miles- ish and plus. And besides, until just a few years ago, our farm was in no need of a sizable newer combine. So excuse me, but nope, not been around them looking that way. And I said/ meant Gleaner, not rotary. |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 4:52am
Williams is the Agco Gleaner dealer just south of Lansing on I-69. How much of a Allis Gleaner guy are if don’t know who one of the larger dealers in your state are? I can say over the years I’ve done business with all the Gleaner dealers currently in Michigan. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 6:15am
| Why is this d sad some sort of argument? Being around newer/ larger Gleaner combines just isn’t an experience I have. If that’s offensive to you I’m sorry. There just isn’t any around here. Our farm up until a few years ago combined less than 100 acres a year, we were a beef farm. Have grown rather quickly since then. Oh, Lansing is over 150 miles from here, which was my point. |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 9:19am
|
So you chimed in on a topic you know nothing about and once you got called out your bent out of shape? Gleaner dealers aren’t around every corner for me it’s either Card’s or Williams both over a hundred miles away. After suffering through the Duetz motor fiasco I was ready to look at other colors. Start studying the others Gleaner looks way simpler. Ever pull a rotor in a Gleaner????? We put a 1000 acres through a combine each year. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 11:47am
|
Feel better now? So you have a bigger farm than me, good for you. As for “chiming in”, last I heard this is not only a public forum, but my first”chime in” was aspects that I did know something about, then asked a question. I’m sorry I thought that was allowed. Have a good harvest. |